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What if there is only one universe

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posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 04:57 PM

Lee Smolin, author of the bestselling science book The Trouble with Physics and a founding member and research physicist at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Canada, writes exclusively in the June issue of Physics World explaining why theories of cosmology that suggest that our universe is just one of many - the so-called multiverse - and thus perpetuate the notion that time does not exist are flawed.

Smolin explains how theories describing a myriad of possible universes, with less or more dimensions and different kinds of particles and forces, have become increasingly popular in the last few years. However, through his work with the Brazilian philosopher Roberto Mangabeira Unger, Smolin believes that, despite there being good reasons for the conclusion that we live in a timeless multiverse, those theories, and the concomitant assumption that time is not a fundamental concept, are "profoundly mistaken".

Smolin points out why a timeless multiverse means that our laws of physics are no longer determinable from experiment and how the connection between fundamental laws, which are unique and applicable universally from first principles, and effective laws, which hold based on what we can actually observe, becomes unclear.

While the multiverse theory is extremely interesting and makes it possible for theorist to attribute strange things that they can't explain, it has no real bases in physics.

Its a mathematical construct with no corroberating physical evidence at this point.

What i find profound about both arguments are the philisophical implications of both universe and multiverse theory.

What does it mean if this is the only universe and it is not timeless? Does it mean that there was a creator? If this is true are we satisfied with it? Will we go beyond it, is it even possible to describe a "time" before time. Is it cyclic is it static, will it end. I find all these questions are much harder to answer if there is only this verse.

If there is a multiverse then how did it arise. Thermodynamics in our patch of the multiverse seems to require both a beginning and eventual end. Surely even in the vastness of a multiverse causality can't be ignored. What gave rise to something so peculiar. What does it mean if each physical possibility plays out somewhere in the multivetrse.

In a multiverse where all physical potentials are realized, what does that do to human psyche. . . As a species we've undergone a series of demotions as to our place in the universe. If we find ourselves to be completely insignifigant would that discourage advancement. . . .

Thinking about both theories is incredibly thought provoking and a great topic for discussion.

What are the opinions of ATS'ers on both the scientific and philisophical implications of both theories.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:00 PM
One theory that I entertained came from electromagnetic reality as apposed to physical reality. That is, reality is information stored in such a way that the frequency of our interface interacts with that particular frequency band of the multiverse.

Our physical body is tuned into the visual spectrum of the electromagnetic spectrum as an example. If it was tuned into another branch of the spectrum what we would percieve would be a totally different reality experience.

Each reality existing in the same space as frequency patterns, and consciousness is tuned into a particular interface for each pattern as an observer.

Energy as data, not as matter.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:11 PM
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

What if there is only one universe


I would love to take the time out to think about the possible widespread philosophical ramifications of either a single universe or multiple or even simultaneous doppleganger ones.

But at the end of the day, it has no consequence to our lives and will not do so until such a time as we are capable of developing the technology to discover these things and exploit them.. that is of course if we ever do AND if there is actually more than one.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:21 PM
I understand Dermo, but the one Universe theory is quite redundant for my contribution.

Fractal reality is another rabbit hole theory which enters into a multi-verse. Dreaming is yet another conscious fractal reality which permiates potentially unlimited numbers of cognitive reality systems and cognitive universes that only the Dreamer can expierence and realize.

Certainly not the objective reality we all take for granted, but a macro-reality system by which many virtual reality expereinces in the form of dreams reside.

I regard the belief system that is materialism that states reality only exists as matter and energy and is bound by physical law as being bias to other aspects of reality such as Cognitive Reality, which in all actuallity the only reality we as a human observer actually observes.

There is an inhernat dualism between physical reality and cognitive reality where the observer is trapped inside the mind-generated rendering of sensory reality. This mind-generated virtual reality is Cognitive Reality and only reflects a small fraction of what physical reality is.

If we base reality on perception alone, then reality is a multiverse because the act of percieving for each subjective observer creates a macro-universe that exists in the mind-generated interpetation of the observer.

Physical reality and the observer automatically create a dualism of two realities. The data being observed, and the mind-rendered projection of sensory data that the observer expeiriences as reality. That reality the observer expeirences is a mind-generated interpretation of data only yet it is the Reality that the observer believes to be the real Physical Reality and not a mind-generated interpretation.

Take trillions of organisims observing data and creating a Cognitive Reality, then the in that example alone, there are trillions of macro-universes that each observer is now creating.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by YouAreDreaming]

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:27 PM
That is a very interesting concept actually! Small alternate trails created for short periods in our subconscious minds. Its too late here for me to be able to think about that properly lol, ill get back to this tomorrow

[edit on 5/1/10 by Dermo]

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:41 PM
reply to post by constantwonder

Hi, I have always wondered is there only one universe or are there infinite universes, I personally believe an intelligent being/beings created the universe/s but then I asked myself the question if there is only one universe and a intelligent being created it what did the being exist in before it created the universe, was it another universe? or if there are infinite universes what created them or who etc.. I ask myself these questions all the time, wish I knew the answers.

given you a star and flag for post but I have to say I'm not too happy about you hypnotising me with your avatar (seriously my eyes have gone all funny) think I need to lie down.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 05:58 PM
reply to post by restless genius

There is actually a good theory on the Origin of reality from one consciousness or this intelligent being if you will. Dr. Thomas Campbell describes it quite elegantly and Sacred Geometry also tells the same story in geometry.

The census is, before any Universe existed, all that existed was Absolute Unbounded Oneness [AUO] which was a dimly aware. At one point, it created a process fractal. This process started a chain reaction where by AUO was able to reorganize itself into individual units of consciousness [IOUC] which in turn reorganzied itself into an Absolute Unbounded Manifold [AUM]. This manifold became the pattern by which many reality systems would emerge with each of us being one of these IOUC's.

I do enjoy Dr. Thomas Campbell's interpretation of this, and it fits into my experiences based on a conscious model of reality vs a purely physical reality.

Sacred Geometry describes it with a circle representing AUO which then duplicates itself into more concentric circles [IOUC] and when connecting the patterns of this we get Metatron's cube which is the symbol on my Avatar. That symbol is a geometrical map that has all of the Platonic Solids, a representation of the first, second, third and fourth dimension. It also demonstrates the Holographic Principle and there are so many interpretations that come from this highly detailed geometric shape that starts with a single circle that duplicates itself 12 more times.

It represents Jesus and the 12 diciples and I tell you, people have spent their whole lives studying the geometric message contained therein. Nature even uses many of the shapes within that structure to create molecules, salts and micro organisms.

That said, I interpret AUO or God or what ever we want to call it... consciousness creating a pattern as a type of thinking or dreaming. That God started to dream, and its dreams forged patterns which soon would be improved on over time into more complex and organized thought pattern and more profound dream expeirences that it finally lost itself in the vastness of the thoughts it creates.

We are the reminance of this great dream that turnd AUO into AUM, and each of us [IOUC] are repeating the dreaming process by which AUO or God created reality, each of us creating our own macro-realities in the form of dreams and have done so for a time that I cannot find a beginning or end.

This is why for some, what they dream one day later comes true like Deja Vu. You will find many more [IOUC] people out there having dreams come true with no explination of how or why... just the result of something they forgot they had.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 06:08 PM
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

I liked what you said at the end about the dreaming part, over the years I've had a few dreams that have come true and also sometimes when I dream I'm with people who ive never met before ( in the waking state ) or seen before and its like I know them and they really exist, Ive often wondered is the dream world another dimension just as real as this one and that we go there when we are dreaming.

posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 06:39 PM
reply to post by restless genius

That does not suprise me in the least. You are not alone in that experience. I started having random dreams come true when I was 15 back in 1987, and they continue to bubble up time and time again. It took me a long time to accept that certain dreams did in fact come true. Despite any sceptisism of my peers. One thing I have come to accept and acknowledge is this one anomoly in reality called precognitive dreaming or Deja reve.

In my personal research to understand the why this happened, I found out that many other people also expeirence it. My friends, familly members have over time and some reluctantly like my brother who at one time ridiculed me for such a claim, only to find himself facing his own precognitive dreams later on in his life.

I feel it's not my job to show people that it is real. No one ever showed me this truth. I never read it in a book. It was the system, reality itself that simply opened up the rabbit hole and pushed me in. And I like it. I'm somehow better for it.

Anyways, enough about me and precognition, I am very happy you also have your own personal expeirences with it. It allows us to entertain how it is even possible at all. I wonder how many more readers of this thread will come forward with acknowlegement of their own precognitive dreams.

posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 11:54 PM
reply to post by constantwonder

It doesn't make since that there is only one universe and that we are alone, that is earth based arrogant thinking, there are scientists and physicists out there who think they know it all, they talk about theory like it is fact, the fact is they just don't know. We know very little and can prove less, theory is no different then a belief in a superior being, it is taken on faith, sure they wouldn't like my analogy but it is what it is.

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