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Hypothetically Speaking, You Want a Revolution?, State Your Case.

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posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Hello everyone.

DISCLAIMER - This is a hypothetical thread, I would not want anyone to get in trouble of any kind over posting, but I'm not in Law enforcement or Government so please be judicious about what you post and how you express it.

This thread is a spin-off intended to disambiguate, or elucidate, who exactly wants a Revolution, peaceful or otherwise.

Original Thread - Please review

Ideas have been floated that the Left wants to goad the Right into revolting, so the Right wingers can all be thrown in FEMA camps, and later executed.

Some threads would suggest that the right wing wants some sort of Revolution.

If nobody wants a Revolution, then this thread will be a slim one.

Some say they are Revolutionists, Tea Party supporters, Conservatives, Birthers, Republican, Democrats, Independents, Communists, Socialists, any number of labels.

To be fair, state your affiliation if any on your first post, or when asked to by the OP or other posters if you did not read the OP.

If you feel this is intrusive then please do not join the discussion. This thread is one where to post you will need to state your political group, party, affiliation, whatever you call it. If you are a 1 person movement, give it a name.

Please try to stay on topic and adhere to T & C.

I am a Center leaning - Independent who supports the current administration so far.
No I'm not happy with the status quo, but I believe we can do it within the current framework of Government. No revolt, just voting, and political activism. I will not be stating my case since I don't have one to make. I will post like you, if and when I want to.

I'm not the Boss, just the OP I will not pretend to be a Mod, let Mods do their thing.

Ziggy




posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Here's what people don't understand nowadays.............violence and conflict is a part of humanity........always has been and always will be. You go out into nature and you'll encounter things that want to hurt you. Same thing with civilized society. This whole nonsense about how violence never solves problems is just that............NONSENSE! God made men.............Sam Colt made them equal. It's the truth.

America wasn't created by a bunch of peace loving hippies who decided to plop down in the middle of a street and hold some signs and sing koombya!!!!!!!!

It was a country founded on the blood sacrifice of men willing to die for a cause much greater than themselves. This type of sacrifice is all too rare nowadays. It lingers in the hearts of many Americans though.......and when that patriotic spirit that is alive in many of us is provoked.......WATCH OUT! In the end we are still freedom loving Americans ready to die for the principles our country was founded upon..........

If it wasn't for violence against those wishing to do violence against us.......America would never have existed!

So to answer your question...........when push comes to shove........a violent revolution is the only way to true freedom. You have to take out the trash and clean up your house every once in a while. And there is a lot of trash and dirt residing in government and our country that won't go quietly and only knows power and violence...........and that's what they're gonna get if they push the American people too far!

Long live LIBERTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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I do want a Revolution .. but Not any Revolution ..

I want a progressive, Left , green (and possible socialist) revolution ..

I also want this revolution to be peaceful .. no guns .. no civil wars ..



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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General Politcal Ideology- very libertarian. I do not see a government as necessary or even a necessary evil.

Affiliation- hmmm.....

Want a Revolution?- I guess the best way to answer this is to state that the current system is unsustainable, oppressive, and derives power from a false premise.

How?- Revolution of the mind. We must empower the individual to be free without the constraints of legalized violence.

I am not a birther. I have been to a Tea Party to see what goes on, and I am by no means a freedomish loving 'conservative'. There is a need for this system to change. It will happen on its own.

I will be ready as will those close to me. I guess one can say I am already in the reconstruction process.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Polynomial C
I do want a Revolution .. but Not any Revolution ..

I want a progressive, Left , green (and possible socialist) revolution ..

I also want this revolution to be peaceful .. no guns .. no civil wars ..




I think you better stick to doing your drugs and leave the revolution to us adults.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


You don't see government as necessary?


Extreme libertarianism looks great on paper.....but some form of limited government is necessary. For a rather intelligent group of people libertarians never seem to be able to separate reality from fantasy.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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I have said this on a few threads already.



The system we live in is unsustainable. It will fall by its own weight.

We need to set up a system outside the current system. It starts with its own economy. We need to create a gray market for labor, goods, and other services. We need to deny the government their share of our labor, or our consumption. We need to cut the government off.

People will learn to live in this new system and find benefits in keeping all the fruits of their labor. Others will join.

On a basic level, it starts with trading. I have 4 apples I don't want, you have 3 oranges you don't want. Now substitute, things like I need a house built, you need a truck. It advances to form a system of liquid (money). We can use this system to protect us from government theft.

So we have this parallel system set up. The next thing to happen is the devaluation of the dollar. The government is now useless (it can't afford anything) and people need a system that gives actual value to their labor, their products, and their assets.

This is the basic version, and the process is long and ongoing, but it is a type of revolution.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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I would like a revolution of intelligence. Let's get the youth of America back on track...the rest is all gravy.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Zosynspiracy

Originally posted by Polynomial C
I do want a Revolution .. but Not any Revolution ..

I want a progressive, Left , green (and possible socialist) revolution ..

I also want this revolution to be peaceful .. no guns .. no civil wars ..




I think you better stick to doing your drugs and leave the revolution to us adults.


To me, what Poly C stated was about as mature and thoughtful of a response as could possibly be made. Your response was....CHILDISH.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Aggie Man]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Zosynspiracy
 




Extreme libertarianism looks great on paper.....but some form of limited government is necessary. For a rather intelligent group of people libertarians never seem to be able to separate reality from fantasy.


Is that anything like the fantasy that government is comprised of people that are infallible, or at least, less infallible then the rest of us?

You seem intelligent, but you can't substantiate your reasoning with any logical explanation. Hint: "That's the way it is", "that's the way it has always been", "its human nature to be ruled", and "Divine providence" are not logical reasons.

Violence is not the answer to overthrowing a system of extreme violence. It won't work because the end result would be a repeat of the same system that you shed blood to overthrow.

Do not get me wrong, I will defend myself and others from violence but I will not instigate it.



America wasn't created by a bunch of peace loving hippies who decided to plop down in the middle of a street and hold some signs and sing koombya!!!!!!!!


That's right, it was created by slave-owning, pot-growing men who were slightly more enlightened then most people. I do appreciate their sacrifices, as it allowed humanity to start freely expressing ideas, but their ideas are now just as dated as the ones they overthrew.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Revolution has nothing to do with politics, except for the sheep.

A sovereign person cannot be FORCED into participating in anything that they do not agree with. It is about true Liberty, and what formed this country. No government owns you or your neighbors...or anybody. That is why Europe sucks and why the United States of America was founded. It goes beyond English rule, it goes beyond any religious rights. Anyone who pays taxes to a government that does not represent them is a slave not by choice, but by force or threat. The current US government has assigned itself powers that it does not have the right to wield, and created new entities that should have never been established(CIA,FBI,BATF,ect) as they had no constitutional right to do so. Our own government also has a standing army, again, unconstitutional.

The USA is currently no different than the Roman empire, that was not the idea of what the USA should be. This is a land where no man or woman is master, but equals. If you want to trade your freedom for convenience, go back to Europe. If you can't provide for yourself, or think for yourself, you are no American. Reasons for revolution will then never be apparent to a slave. Go kowtow to politicians,corporations,law men, and criminals because your easy bait and they know it. Outside of laziness, there is no reason not to have a revolution.





oh yeah, I'm a constitutionalist(not the party, but the document). I'm also a true leftist, but the constitution( or an "all thing") is the next best thing to true anarchy. Some people lack common reasoning and need some document to refer to.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by LordBaskettIV]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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I agree with what Polynomial C said: a left-leaning "revolution", though I would lean closer to socialism than the average left-winger. Such a revolution could only be achieved through a Gandhian method of non-violent resistance, and would not start in the political realm, but would have to happen first in the workplace.

Socialism, meaning that the workers own the means of production and thus profit directly, would easily work inside the framework that we have now. But of course, that would only be the beginning.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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Here is my version of revolution. Abolish the two party system. Remove all the corrupt democrats and republicans from office. Kick all the lobbyists out of Washington.

Hold new elections for all political offices. Nobody that identifies themselves and Democrat or Republican can run. New political parties will be formed that will have the peoples interests in mind instead of the corporations. Create new laws that forbid any politician from accepting money or favors from corporate lobbyists.

Recall all our troops from overseas, the US will no longer be the police force of the world. All other countries are on their own.

Lockdown the borders to stop illegal immigration.

Abolish the Federal Reserve and put monitary policy in the hands of the US Treasury where it belongs.

Stop all intrusion into our lives by the federal government. The less government involvement the better off we are. Anyone looking for a free ride from the government can move to Canada.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Polynomial C
I do want a Revolution .. but Not any Revolution ..

I want a progressive, Left , green (and possible socialist) revolution ..

I also want this revolution to be peaceful .. no guns .. no civil wars ..


Exactly what does a progressive, left, green revolution mean?
These are just the latest liberal buzz words.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Every generation needs a new revolution.
Thomas Jefferson

The seed of revolution is repression.
Woodrow Wilson

We have two American flags always: one for the rich and one for the poor. When the rich fly it means that things are under control; when the poor fly it means danger, revolution, anarchy.
Henry Miller

Revolution, n. In politics, an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.
Ambrose Bierce

The revolution has always been in the hands of the young. The young always inherit the revolution.
Huey Newton

Yes, I truly believe there will be a revolution of sorts. It will not be the same revolution that we have seen in the past though. I am talking about the shrugging off of chains of the status quo by the populous. Like the end of "Fight Club" when all of the debt holding companies are destroyed. I like to think the people would wake-up and realize they had been completely duped. The next day the companies send out an email that says "hey guys, we lost your info. would you please tell us about how much you owed" The laughter is heard round the world. The next potus is elected for the people by the people beacuse TPTB cannot afford to line each candidates pockets for their own good. Then the election process becomes more altruistic, people vote for the facts not the catch phrase. The people will have to be more self-reliable because the line of credit will not be there to fall back on. Family units will become more of a need for the survival of the individual. And the revolution has begun...



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Someone336
I agree with what Polynomial C said: a left-leaning "revolution", though I would lean closer to socialism than the average left-winger. Such a revolution could only be achieved through a Gandhian method of non-violent resistance, and would not start in the political realm, but would have to happen first in the workplace.

Socialism, meaning that the workers own the means of production and thus profit directly, would easily work inside the framework that we have now. But of course, that would only be the beginning.


Hi Someone336,

If possible, I'd love to explore a reasonable set of principles and some specifics with you about going forward constructively.

You seem reasonable, let's see what we can come up with, I'm not inviting you to a tit for tat, I really want to discuss your ideas, and see how they fit with mine. Maybe we can ask Ownbestenemy to chime in.

Let me know, I'm going to give my thoughts at some point, I'd like to hear from the more reasonable people and see if we can't arrive at something based on reasonable viable alternatives.

Cheers

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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I'd like the revolution to be one of intelligence and information. A deconstruction of goverment and a step back to peaceful living. It'll never happen, as humanity, as said above, is intristicly violent. (is intristicly a word i just made up?)

We need to give up goverment, as to be governed, means that you are not able to look after yourself. Children are governed, are you a child? Or are you capable of being responsible for your actions. The way we live in this day and age, is wrong. Pure and simple.

I'd love the freeman on the land movement to gain pace, and pick up so every man,woman and child knows the score. That we are free, we do not need to live by these "laws" (or more correctly, statutes and acts of parliment) If we simply denouce them, and move on. take responsibility for our actions, and respect common law. That's all we need for a revolution. For every man, woman and child to do this, would be astounding. It would revolutionise everything about our lives. But this would be a massive move, too big for some, who've grown too comfy wallowing in their own sense of self worth. Passing on responsibility for their actions, onto others, as they can not, for some reaon, see that they are responsible for themselves.

One day. *dreams*



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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As a constitutionalist I believe we can restore the Constitutional Republic without firing a single shot. Anyone who says they WANT revolution is a bumbling idiot with delusions of grandeur. HOWEVER, This does not mean we don't NEED a revolution, and it certainly doesn't mean I wouldn't fight.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
As a constitutionalist I believe we can restore the Constitutional Republic without firing a single shot. Anyone who says they WANT revolution is a bumbling idiot with delusions of grandeur. HOWEVER, This does not mean we don't NEED a revolution, and it certainly doesn't mean I wouldn't fight.


Hi Projectvxn,

Thanks for contributing to the thread. I have a question for you of a personal nature.

You are an American, and a Constitutionalist, if I remember on some post you said you came from South America right? I am the same in that regard, except I came from Europe.

I'm not sure about how Americans like you will fare, if some of the changes I have seen suggested here become a reality with , or without a single shot being fired.

In this thread I debated, happy voluntary segregation by national origin with Equistar. That would mean, you would not be welcome in most communities after the return to the Constitution, neither would my Brothers wife, she's Colombian. My wife is a Jew, so she's on the same boat.

How do you think we can deal with this issue, I'm 100% for the Constitution.
But some people will insist the Constitution was really meant for White Men.

To overhaul it, some would rewrite it from scratch? If we abolish Judges and Lawyers, that means we abolish courts as well.

Help me out here, what do you think.

Ziggy Strange



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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I wasn’t a big fan when red dawn came out. Maybe that explains my scepticism over the need for a revolution.



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