Citizen with permitted concealed handgun law stops multiple victim public shooting

reply to post by davesidious


It's a half open Pandora's box for them. Closing it altogether is impossible yet at this point opening it back up to fight stupidity with education and de-mystification would be extremely difficult.

Back when there was a gun in every home these things didnt happen. They were taken away, hidden, demonized and now rather simply being another tool they're evil weapons and sought out by the petty as a means of power and infamy.

Prohibition never works. Sudden ending of said prohibition is likely to result in a wave of stupidity. Like just giving some 13 year old the keys to a car.

Gradual reintroduction could help but it's very likely the now wholly ignorant mass would never support that.

This is really just like kids getting knocked up. There's no way you're going to completely stop all kids from having sex and with this knowledge you still refuse to teach sex-ed or make contraception available. So it goes on hidden and "evil" in the alleys perpetually.

I just found out that the US has the most Olympic shooting medals than any other nation. Neat.

This is just like the incident where a kid killed some church group because they wouldn't let him join their little cult. Then he proceeded to a huge church, with over a thousand people in attendance. He had several guns and thousands of rounds of ammo, entered the church and started shooting.

The part they left out of all the news reports was that he was stopped by an off duty cop attending the church who happened to have a gun in her purse, and took him out. Otherwise he would have killed hundreds of people, if none of them had a gun.

reply to post by nik1halo


i can only conlude from your comments that you are from another ` parallel dimension ` where " england " is radically different - because you have not got the faintest idea

first guns are NOT ` totally illegal ` break action shotguns [ s/s and o/u ] are prefectly legal [ minimum barrel lenght = 18" ] and subject to the prospective owner being granted a shot gun licence [ requires a police check , interview - no convictions for violent crime and demonstrated secirity arrangements ] semi auto and pum,p action shot guns are permitted - but require the more stringent fireams certificate - and are limited at 2 & 1 capacity

rifles are also legal [ a firearms certificate - similar to the shotgun licence - but with more detailed checks is required ] howver only single action [ either break or bolt action ] are permitted [ i cannot find a cite - but i ASSUME that lever action rifle would be permitted - subject to capacity limits - i dont know anyone who has one - but cannot find any reason why the would be forbiddent - provided that they were only 2 &1 ]

.22lr target pistols - limited to single shot only are also premitted

now as for ` gun crime ` - yes it has risen in recent years - but that has NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the gun bans of 1987 and 1998

now i shall go on the attack - can you cite ANY instance prior to 1987 when a " citizen " with a rifle / semi automatic shot gun prevented / titerupted or foiled a crime in the UK ?

Or whence a " citizen " with a hand gun foiled / prevented a cirme prior to 1997 ?

the stark reality which you ignore is that since 1931 - Uk firearms legislation has pohibuted any sort of concealed cary / general carry for the public

certainly as long as i have owned firearms [ 1976 to present day ] i have had to transort my fireams in secure locked boxes - with the ammunition is a SEPERATE locked box

so your delusion of a ` disarmed population ` is pure fantasy - the " response time " for legal gun onwners in the uk has always been pedestrian - you have to respond - get you fire arm AND ammunition - load the weapon then respond to the threat

the brise in ` gun crime ` has mirroed the rise in all other cimes - its not guns that are the problem ists the ciminality

knife crime has skyrocketed to - - oops knives are not illegal

PS - did you know that possesion of a sawn off shot gun & cartiges = 4 ` gun crimes ` ?

1 - poseesion of an unlicened shot gun

2 - opssesion of a shotgun modified cotrary to legislation [ < 18 " barrel ]

3 - possesion of unlicened amuntion

4 - wilding a firearm in a pulbic place

go figure

Originally posted by davesidious

The black market would EXPLODE if handguns were able to be legally bought. Currently guns would have to be smuggled in to the country, which is difficult enough. If they just have to be stolen from gun shops or law-abiding owners, then the number on the black market would go through the roof, endangering everyone.

The black market has been exploding for several decades... how do you think those who own the market of illegal firearms have gotten multi-billionaires?... You think it is because the black market of weapons is not doing good?...

Even in the U.S. there have been several ships, mostly from China which were caught transporting illegal firearms into U.S. ports. Mostly L.A., New York, and the like, where legal firearms are heavily restricted or outright outlawed as in the case of New York.

Smuggling weapons into any country is not difficult because these people have billions of dollars, and unfortunately money talks these days....

Originally posted by davesidious
Have you seen the firearms murder rates in the US? Jesus Christ I'd not wish that on anyone. I'd hardly say guns for everyone is working!

Yes i have, and you obviously didn't even bother to read the links I gave, nor what other members were saying.

The murders with firearms occur mostly in places where firearms are heavily restricted, or outright banned....

In Wyoming EVERYONE has at least a shotgun, and a handgun, and we barely have any violent crimes, or any crime. Although yes there are crimes, but most criminals know that pretty much everyone is armed here. Unfortunately there are some places where you can't walk in with a firearm, unless you have a CCW, and it is in these areas where the few criminals strike.

Originally posted by davesidious
Personally I'd rather let the cops look after my safety. They're paid for it, they're trained for it, have back-up, and it allows me to not have to be 100% on-guard all the time (ie I can have a drink without risking my life).

The cops look after your safety?..... ... most cops are told to WAIT until things calm down, they are not told to forfeit their lives and run in to save you... So, sorry to tell you you are ON YOUR OWN.... You will be lucky enough to have cops to draw the shape of your body on the ground 5 minutes after you are killed, and who knows what would have happened to your family...

I don't know who you are, or what you think you know, but certainly you are not aware of what is going on.

Yes, there are SOME cops that will try to save you, but for the most part THEY LOOK AFTER THEIR SAFETY FIRST...It is after all part of their jobs...

Originally posted by davesidious
Letting everyone have handguns is opening Pandora's box. It's too late for the US to have any choice in the matter.

Too late for the US to have any choice on the matter?... what in the world are you talking about?... It better not be too late, otherwise what will occur next will be the worse thing that will happen in the U.S. only after the first Civil War......

Buddy WE HAVE A RIGHT given to us by the Constitution, in case you dind't know, where it clearly says it is the right of Americans to own an bear arms, and the forefathers SPECIFICALLY stated several times that such a RIGTH SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED....

I don't like violence, i really don't, but MILLIONS of Americans won't stand by while the UN, or the other "Progressives" or likewise corrupt politicians" try to take away the right of Americans to own and bear arms....

If you are an American, you sir are a disgrace to this country, if you are not, good luck to you, and keep thinking that roses, and hugs are going to keep you free... History certainly showed that heh?....


[edit on 7-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

I can only conlude from your comments that you are from another ` parallel dimension ` where " england " is radically different - because you have not got the faintest idea

Really?...well, since you were the first to claim this about that other member we can safely bet that you surely must be living in some other parallel dimension.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
first guns are NOT ` totally illegal `

Oh jeez whiz, "guns are not TOTALLY illegal" I guess that must make it alright then that MOST firearms do not fall into the categories you included....

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
break action shotguns [ s/s and o/u ] are prefectly legal [ minimum barrel lenght = 18" ]

Sure, and criminals get handguns from the black market meanwhile most British people carry around their break action shotguns.....but who knows....maybe in your parallel dimension they do?....

I can see the British people in your parallel universe making the following observations....

"Hey lady, don't forget to carry in that handbag of yours your 18" break action shotgun, you never know what today's little Johnny is going to do".....

"Humm, have you wondered why bras now-a-days are 18" long in size?"......

A woman tells her husband "Geez honey, you have grown 18" long overnight judging by the bulge in your pants, and why are you limping?"

I guess pretty soon we are going to be seeing a new fashion for law abidding Brittish citizens who try to conceal or implement their "break action 18" barrel shotguns into one accessory....

You think they make canes that long, and that thick to conceal inside an 18" break action shotgun?....

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
now as for ` gun crime ` - yes it has risen in recent years - but that has NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the gun bans of 1987 and 1998

Well, NOW we know for certain you must be from a parallel universe. It is a fact, which has been reported several times that SINCE the gun bans in the UK gun crimes have risen, and in general crimes have risen....but of course in YOUR parallel universe it is just a coincidence that crimes in general started increasing with the gun bans......

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
now i shall go on the attack - can you cite ANY instance prior to 1987 when a " citizen " with a rifle / semi automatic shot gun prevented / titerupted or foiled a crime in the UK ?

Humm, I wonder how many people can go online and get that much information online from before 1987... I guess in your parallel universe they invented the internet back in the early 1900s, and by 1987 all articles were available to everyone online....

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
Or whence a " citizen " with a hand gun foiled / prevented a cirme prior to 1997 ?

I do have to wonder why you keep pressing on finding evidence BEFORE 1987-1997..... oh wait, it must be because now when a british citizen shoots a burglar at his/her home they go to jail and the burglar goes free fairly fast...and THEN the burglar can put a lawsuit against the man/woman who DARED to try to stop the burglars.......

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
the stark reality which you ignore is that since 1931 - Uk firearms legislation has pohibuted any sort of concealed cary / general carry for the public

Oh yeah...British criminals SURELY TREMBLE at the fact that it is illegal to carry any firearms in public, or to have even a concealed weapon...phew...I guess that must be why crime has DECREASED right?.... No wait...actually crimes have INCREASED and more so with HANDGUNS...except in your parallel universe that is....



[edit on 7-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Most of the crimes occur in cities where weapons are heavily restricted from LAW ABIDING CITIZENS, and where ONLY criminals carry weapons....

It is a FACT, and this has been shown around here several times that in countries where law abbiding citizens have been banned from having weapons that crimes with guns have INCREASED dramatically because only criminals have guns in these countries, and cities....

As an example look at the UK, and Australia...

That is true - I was actually surprised when I looked at the gun crime figures before and after the ban in this country, I was a bit too young when the ban came in to pay much notice to the news around the time of the ban... So I just assumed (wrongly) that there must be less weapons available, less crime - Oh no! The numbers are so blatant I can't see what the point was other than some ministers scoring election points with the outraged Daily Mail readership type - ie the head's up their rear Chelsea tractor tractor driving vocal voter parent teacher association coffee morning disposable income types... ie politician's pay dirt.

In the US gun sales have gone way up since Obama got elected.

You would think crime would have gone up to.

but that is not the case.

currently, the FBI reports that gun sales – especially of assault-style rifles and handguns, two main targets of gun-control groups – are up at least 12 percent nationally since the election of President Obama, a dramatic run on guns prompted in part by so-far-unwarranted fears that Democrats in Congress and the White House will curtail gun rights and carve apart the Second Amendment.

After several years of crime rates holding relatively steady, the FBI is reporting that violent crimes – including gun crimes – dropped dramatically in the first six months of 2009, with murder down 10 percent across the US as a whole.

A possible deterrent effect?

But one prominent gun rights researcher, Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University in Tallahassee, leaves the door open to the idea that news of booming gun sales could have a deterrent effect on violent criminals.

“It’s possible that criminals hear about lots of people buying guns, and then you can see a plausible mechanism, that conceivably could have produced a reduction in murder,”
www.csmonitor.com...
findarticles.com...

A few criminals running scared.???????

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

The black market would EXPLODE if handguns were able to be legally bought. Currently guns would have to be smuggled in to the country, which is difficult enough. If they just have to be stolen from gun shops or law-abiding owners, then the number on the black market would go through the roof, endangering everyone.

Have you seen the firearms murder rates in the US?

Personally I'd rather let the cops look after my safety. They're paid for it, they're trained for it, have back-up, and it allows me to not have to be 100% on-guard all the time....

ill open and close your reply with this: when seconds count, help is minutes away....

reply to post by davesidious


Its because they're all too normalised. Gun culture. The guy saw what he did as an appropriate action because it seemed normal.

Even though people in Switzerland love their guns they dont think 'hm Im pissed ill bring out ol' Glocky'...

Food for thought: anyone think the marine was upset about his status because he wanted to change it to DISCHARGED??? I mean, he came home( back to the civilian world) smartly so, because to flip out and shoot crazily when on deployment in iraq/afghanistan would get him permanently 86'd.....

I wonder if the Marine in question was a Muslim.

Marines I know want to kill the enemies of America, not Americans.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
I wonder if the Marine in question was a Muslim.

Marines I know want to kill the enemies of America, not Americans.

I doubt he was muslim...and I know many devil dogs as well, met a lot as a devil squid, and they are certainly Semper Fi. So what about his experiences made this one go "non-lethally" postal?

I mean, all marines are trained to be deadly accurate with rifles, even the "computer commando" my little brother was (he'd wanna kick me if he seen this, lol) but I knew and seen that he was sickly accurate at any range with a rifle when he left the corps after 8 yrs service.

If I remember correctly, the article stated WHERE he was firing from(parking lot) but direction(skyward or...), I didn't see. I feel he wanted to miss, but still wanted to accomplish something.

Sigh....I guess knuckleshuffling in medical no longer works....

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I just submitted my application to get my C.C.W. license tuesday.I wrote
a thread about an incident that occured at a grocery store I go to.There
are so many people who are scared to death about guns.Their fear is
irrational and these same people try to get gun control laws passed.They
don't stop to think that the people who would lose their guns,if laws were
passed,are the law abiding citizens.The criminals would still be armed!

reply to post by davesidious


I had to take classes and pass tests.I had to PROVE I knew how to
properly and safely handle and fire a gun.My C.C.W. license doesn't
give me the authority to take the law into my own hands.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


First, I agree that this story will never see the light of day in the MSM. Someone should email the link to Hannity or the like.

As for some of the UK info I've seen quoted in this thread, i.e.:

"Mr Davis said the gun figures were linked to a steep rise in drug offences - up 21 per cent in the third quarter of last year. The number of drug crimes was 55,700, against 9,500 in the same period in 2006."

Really? According to whom?

I have a feeling this is total hogwash. The UK authorities are trying to shift the blame of the increased gun violence (which they created) to 'drugs' and are probably making up figures to make it sound like a scary problem. Simple misdirection here. 9,500 to 55,700? Is every other UK citizen throwing in the towel and getting wasted these days? Come on.

If the numbers are in fact legit, perhaps they reflect an increase in enforcement efforts and not necessarily an increase in drug use in the UK. Big numbers come in handy when you want to spin an issue away from the real cause.

Do you know propaganda when you see it?

[edit on 7-1-2010 by AwakeinNM]

reply to post by AwakeinNM


I can bring up different articles that show the steep rise in crime is tied to the gun bans. Yes, the authorities, and government of the UK brought this to them, when they brainwashed their people into giving away their guns to make them safer, instead they are less safe and have another right being taken away. Not only that, but what i said about British citizens going to prison for shooting robbers inside their homes is true...and English law allows one of the robbers, who is free on the streets, to sue the man who was on his own property trying to protect it, and trying to protect himself... The man is in jail for trying to protect himself, and his property...that's what English law has done for the British people.... and if "Progressives" get their way, and some other corrupt politicians they will do the same thing in the U.S.....

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
I wonder if the Marine in question was a Muslim.

Marines I know want to kill the enemies of America, not Americans.