I support the so-called depopulation agenda

I believe that, firstly, no-one has a right to rule over anyone's right to have children.

Secondly, I think mankind has ruined this planet so it becomes a moot point.

We have ruined it, full stop.

Originally posted by Shere Khaan

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
The world is NOT over-populated.

You could put the entire world population into Australia, everyone would have 3/4 of an acre and Queensland would still be half empty and the rest of the world would be empty!!!

That's how over-populated we are.

Stop spreading propaganda.

That's hilarious? Was that or joke, or do you really think it is just about space to live on, and not all the resources that support our population and way of life?

Where are you going to get all the resources, energy and water from? What about land to grow crops in ways that doesn't destroy it. Do you know where most of our fertilizer comes from? Most of our modern echnology uses rare elements that are very much limited, how far will they stretch? How will we fish the oceans even moer when fish stocks around the world have collapsed already due to increasing demand?

Well, agree and if any humans is content living like a caged chicken or a fenced sheep living in a herd. I totally support that this whole notion about over-population is a farce. But in reality, how much space does one of us take up? Not that I never thought of technology being able to help us out on such issues but ultimately there is a finite space where we can develop upwards and the resources that we can use without the destruction of the beauty of our planet.

"97% of the world space is unoccupied". Well, imagining a bill board on mount everest, the amazon rainforest being cut down for high sky scrapers, the gobi terraformed for more space as well. Mongolian plains being studded with buildings of all sort and sizes. Humans just bring corruption to where they go. We still need places where we can escape to for that tranquility.

I believe no one can be denied the right of pro-creation but all of us need to understand the responsibility of this ability that we have, and not to abuse it as a alternative to retirement planning. As all of us would know by now, this does not work that well in modern context.

And I believe OP as those who agree with the idea, does not promote genocide like what some trolls are saying. Just that we have to do some self reflection on who we are and what is the future for our species as a whole , rather than proposing some inconsiderate thoughts that imposes on others.

The powers that be are going to gradually depopulate this planet regardless. Between the introduction of ever changing super-viruses, planned wars and nuclear weaopns and who knows what else, the populace will be kept at what they consider a manageable level. The poor and uneducated will not be the ones to perish, for they are the ever-dependent backbone sheep of the Flock. Powerful leaders do not need educated, free thinking individuals such as the likes that frequent such forums as this and educate themselves and others. They much prefer the pitiful souls who are thankful to just be given enough to survive and exist. Free thinkers and rebels will be few and far between and dealt with when identified. Do not for one moment think the plans for the future have not already been laid out. Everything is happening for a reason. Technology suppressed, disease-curing vaccinations pushed into the secret recesses that only the truly powerful have access to. Sometimes I really begin to think that a highly advanced life form from other worlds may be the only thing that can save us from ourselves.....

I love people.
I would like to see more people.
I would like people living all around the world and Solar system as well as our Galaxy.
One day I would like to see many more people living in Andromeda galaxy.

-------

Earth has capacity to sustain high standard of living for 25-30 billion of people.
Technology in future will allow more than 30 billion people to live on Earth.

I love you, OP and would love to see you have many children.

All Life (bacteria, animals, plants...) is beautiful and should spread all around the Universe.

More people means there will be more happiness

... Somewhere between 1 and 2 billion people live on less than a dollar a day and go to bed hungry every day.

So ... you are saying it would take so little to feed these people.

yet we don't. The distribution of wealth on this planet is what is out of wack. The Earth can support the population and it should but's not allowed to because the resources are stolen, hoarded by certain groups and certain populations are intentionally deprived.

I heard not too long ago that if EVERYONE on Earth lived the live of a Bhudist Monk, nobody would even notice us we'd be in balance but WE DON'T. THAT'S what's wrong with the planet.

I understand the need to find balance and we should. "unchecked" population growth is simply unwise, why would you knowingly want to create inbalance? But as it stands, I personally DO NOT believe that we can't support the population we currently have if we just changed the way we did things.

My $0.02

I think that once a child reaches puberty, s/he should have to take a sort of standardized test that covers the basics of reproduction; you know, birth control, STDs, abortion, etc., and some common sense questions as well. If that person does not pass this test, s/he should have to undergo a reversible operation/procedure/whatever that causes them to be unable to have children (tubal ligation, IUD, vasectomy, etc.). Then once they get older they could retake the test and if they pass they can have their operation reversed, but if they fail again they have to stay sterile until they can take it again. The test could be made to where it could only be taken at certain ages (like 13, 18, 21, etc.) and would increase to the appropriate amount of difficulty for each age group. I think that this would decrease the amount of "whoops!" pregnancies by stupid teens, which would in turn decrease the amount of teenage dropouts due to pregnancies, which would in turn (getting dizzy lolz) reduce the amount of people on welfare because they had to drop out of school to have a baby and would also reduce the amount of kids put into foster care for that reason as well. It would also help encourage the rise of general intelligence of the population, since in order to be a parent one would have to be smarter than the average bear... catch my drift? Then there should also be a tax on any extra children after about three per parent. I'm not a professional, though, and I acknowledge that I could be completely wrong about this, but I think that it seems pretty practical. Hopefully you guys can make sense of what I'm saying because I'm unsure if I've made myself as clear as possible, haha.

Overpopulation is not the problem. Its our addiction and dependency on oil that creates the problems. Its everything that you keep hidden from our view that forces men to be rich and for most of the worlds populations to suffer and starve.

Its never going to be what you tell me, becuase it will allways be what we see. If we can't see the future then we can't see ourselves and we will sell ourselves short.

I'm sure very soon we will have much more to talk about.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by DarkCyrus]

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis

Personally, from a cold hard objective view, it makes a lot of sense to me.

Sorry but it doesn't make any sense, you, and those who support you are just trying to make excuses which you can't corroborate...

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
The world IS overpopulated, whether you want to admit it or not.

Actually whether you admit it or not the world is NOT over-populated...

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
Somewhere between 1 and 2 billion people live on less than a dollar a day and go to bed hungry every day. Most of the rest of the 6-point-whatever billion out there are not much better off.

Which has NOTHING to do with over-population... This just shows how misinformed you, and those who support you are...

In countries like India for example the main problem is the caste system.. There are people that are not ALLOWED to better their lives because the higher caste people, or the elites in India, don't want to allow these people to better their lives...

For example the "undesirables" in India are avoided by other Indians and they are only allowed to have dirty jobs, such as cleaning crap, garbage, etc. these people are not ALLOWED to have better jobs....

Some of the other higher caste Indians are allowed to BEG, which yes it is begging, for the higher caste to allow them to study, or better their lives, but these requests are not always granted, and the lower caste Indians are not allowed to do this.

In other countries like China, Vietnam, Burma, North Korea, Cuba, etc, people are poor and go hungry because of COMMUNISM, and the belief that individual rights can be banned "for the good of all, or the good of the nation, or the revolution, or some other collectivist excuse"... Collectivism breeds, and transforms naitons into dictatorships, this has ALWAYS been proven to happen...

In African nations you have either warlords, or some extremist islamic nation wanting control over the people, hence most people suffer because of this...

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
ALL of us at ATS are "elite" in the grand scheme of things simply because we have access to a computer.

.... what in the world are you talking about.....

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
The planet is dying. Lots of you believe environmental stuff is conspiracy or hoax.

.....The planet is NOT dying.... there is Climate Change on Earth, and there is Climate Change on every planet in the Solar System.... I guess people on Earth are the reason why Climate Change is happening in every planet, and even moons with an atmosphere in the Solar System.....

Climate Change has ALWAYS happened whether people like you want to admit it or not....

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
I think most people who take this stance do so out of a kind of guilt....

Now I am sure you have no idea of what you are talking about.....

We have our stance because we made our research, instead of blindly following some lunatics...

Originally posted by Goatflesh Gnosis
My view is bleaker. I DO admit it but I DON'T think anything can be done about it, because people are basically pigs who think in the short term. So why not just admit it and have a party?

Ah, so now we can see why you want population control... You obviously hate people and have a dellusional perspective on the world and the environment....

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The monster is out of control lol. It sad and there is something sick or damaged and faulty with such individuals. Very sad.

This is a Magnetic system. The minds have gone wry.

The time is now.


[edit on 6-1-2010 by DarkCyrus]

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Anyone who honestly believes the earth can support 12 billion people by the year 2100 is naive and retarded.

Actually, anyone who honestly believes the Earth can not support 12 billion people by the year 2100 is "naive and retarded"...

Maybe these people have no idea that as technology evolves, and if we don't allow some collectivist excuse by the elite to take away our individual rights, lives will improve...

These people who don't think the Earth can support 12 billion people are the same "retards" that want to allow laws, and taxes against CO2, and they even want to sequester CO2... Obviously these same "retards" don't know that with more atmospheric CO2 trees, plants, and all green biomass of Earth grows bigger, stronger, produce more harvest, which means more food for people, and allow for trees and plants to use less water which means there would be more water for humans....

So go figure who the "naive and retarded" are....



[edit on 6-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Depopulation shouldn't be of any government concern. its all on the individual to have children or not.

its a persons right to have as many kids as they want.

for the people complaining about the people who go hungry, or are living on less than a dollar a day to survive DOESN'T MEAN they don't have a right to live and pursue happiness... not to mention with the billions of dollars being wasted every day which can go to better use such as food production, or free energy research. no we have to spend billions on wars, billions on bailouts, yet the hungry are left to dry.

if anyone should be depopulated, should be the ones hoarding all the resources causing this instability, and then blame it on Overpopulation.

/Rant over

reply to post by Goatflesh Gnosis


I seriously hope you are the first person to sign up what a ludicrous idea.
I come from a family of 8 kids and each of us are successful people and i couldn't imagine not having any of family in my life.
If your so keen on the idea of depopulation move to China and spruke yourself up there because for you to tell me I cannot have as many kids as I want is just as stupid as your idea of depopulation.

Eventualy there will be too many people but nature will correct itself. I just hope I'm not around to see it.

The earth has been here for what 4.5 billion years. Mankind has been around for say 100,000 maybe 200,000 years. 90% of the species that ever walked this planet have gone extinct. What makes mankind so special to think he can't go extinct himself? Wether it be by his own hand or the work of mother nature it can and probobly will happen.

My own opinion is mankind is to self centerd not to avoid his own dimise. Unless mankind can figure out how to work together for the benifit of mankind we're all doomed.

Originally posted by ugie1028
Depopulation shouldn't be of any government concern. its all on the individual to have children or not.

its a persons right to have as many kids as they want.

Unless the individual is fortunate enough to have the financial, emotional and vocational resources to have multiple children, then they should NOT. If you desire to have more kids than you are able to raise properly, then you are sacrificing the welfare of society for your own needs.

What do you think happens to kids that are not raised properly, not given the emotional support they require, and are not deemed a priority by their parents? While a very few are fortunate to turn out alright, most are likely to either be involved in crime, be on welfare or die of starvation.

Sure, emotionally it is comforting to know that one is free to have as many children as they like and be happy. But surely you are disregarding reason, logic and the welfare of the greater population by doing so.

Originally posted by KeeperOfGenisis
I seriously hope you are the first person to sign up what a ludicrous idea.
I come from a family of 8 kids and each of us are successful people and i couldn't imagine not having any of family in my life.
If your so keen on the idea of depopulation move to China and spruke yourself up there because for you to tell me I cannot have as many kids as I want is just as stupid as your idea of depopulation.

Emotion: one of our greatest sources of strength but also one of our worst sources of failure.

Please, have as many kids as you want; try and break the Guinness World Record for the "Most Children Conceived" title if you desire! Just don't expect me or other humans to provide the financial and social capabilities needed for you to do so.

[edit on 6/1/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Depopulation is a Globalist agenda. Only the Earth endures and Earth has her own remedies for ensuring populations, human and otherwise, are reduced.

Man is an arrogant creature who believes only Man and his constructs can save him from the worst of his excesses.

Earth is abundant and there is enough for us all, now and in the future. Only Man's greed distributes the bounty unfairly. Social control, through eugenics (all population control measures, however well intentioned in the first instance, soon become eugenic as there will always be those people who believe some Animals are more equal than others. The former USSR and other communist bloc countries provide the example.), or through systems of financial reward or punishment (eg, communist bloc, again), result in failure.

Should OWG decide to embark on a programme of population control, the propaganda to support their desires will include many of the arguments put forth in the OP, and those most likely to sign up to the, initially, voluntary programmes will not be aware that they will be the only ones to reap the financial (free food) rewards. Perhaps the information will be included in the 'implant'. Such people will enjoy 'special' status and access additional goods and services.

Just another form of discrimination.

Originally posted by cordonna
I think that once a child reaches puberty, s/he should have to take a sort of standardized test that covers the basics of reproduction; you know, birth control, STDs, abortion, etc., and some common sense questions as well. If that person does not pass this test, s/he should have to undergo a reversible operation/procedure/whatever that causes them to be unable to have children (tubal ligation, IUD, vasectomy, etc.). Then once they get older they could retake the test and if they pass they can have their operation reversed, but if they fail again they have to stay sterile until they can take it again. The test could be made to where it could only be taken at certain ages (like 13, 18, 21, etc.) and would increase to the appropriate amount of difficulty for each age group. I think that this would decrease the amount of "whoops!" pregnancies by stupid teens, which would in turn decrease the amount of teenage dropouts due to pregnancies, which would in turn (getting dizzy lolz) reduce the amount of people on welfare because they had to drop out of school to have a baby and would also reduce the amount of kids put into foster care for that reason as well. It would also help encourage the rise of general intelligence of the population, since in order to be a parent one would have to be smarter than the average bear... catch my drift? Then there should also be a tax on any extra children after about three per parent. I'm not a professional, though, and I acknowledge that I could be completely wrong about this, but I think that it seems pretty practical. Hopefully you guys can make sense of what I'm saying because I'm unsure if I've made myself as clear as possible, haha.

You are entitled to your opinion. You need to know that the program you described is known as Eugenics. It has already been promoted by such infamous people as Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood (America's #1 baby killers) and Adolph Hitler of Nazi fame (remember, he eliminated 7 million Jews he considered to be of lower intelligence). You should be proud of the company your ideas keep! - NOT

reply to post by teapot


Oh, I didn't know the Earth was infinitely large. Thanks for proving everyone ever wrong.

If we keep on having as many kids as we want, we'll eventually run out of space, food, and water. Disease and famine will kill off most, and after that's done, there will be sparse animal and plant life on the planet.

So no, stop being so selfish and realise it's not that simple.

And yes, it is a form of discrimination - against stupid people who think they can have as many kids as they want without affecting the world in any way at all. Folks like that should be sent back to school, as clearly they were sleeping through Geography and Science classes.

reply to post by davesidious


Mindless repititions of mindless experts mouthing what is politically correct proves nothing.
Proof! Where is your peoof that the Earth is overpopulated?
Calling the other side "stupid" proves nothing except your own lack of facts on the subject.

Good thread..S&F
I also support the concept of population control, and have for years now though few agree with my views on it.. allowing humans to breed at the rate far too many are is not acceptable..though i do not agree with much of the ways of the Chinese government, i do agree with their laws concerning its populace to have children..It's always been a difficult belief personally as i don't want the governments of the West especially, to have more sickening power and controls than they already do, i really don't know what the answer is to the problem..but it is indeed a problem..

One major case i can think of from the top of my head is a women who lives a few houses down from me, last year she gave birth to twins, bringing her total of offspring to 7 (possibly 8) ..she is younger than myself (28), and brainless, reproducing most likely for the money and housing benefits she receives, and its been noticed by myself and others in our area that she can't even be bothered to actually raise these kids with any decent rules, respect or basic decency..
But what can be done? I am a firm believer in human rights as a whole, so thats where it gets all a bit jumbled lol
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this OP

but we live in a 3-dimensional world, not 2D. there is enough space in 2D plane for all of us, and if we add 1 extra dimension, we get almost infinite amount of space to share. hell, we even can build cities under or over the see.
so what's the problem? food? thousands of years ago babylonians knew how to grow trees, gardens on their roofs. I would like to think, that we in 2010 are a bit more advanced.
not enough energy? even if we use only oil, gases and uranium as energy source we would have enough energy for all (if we learn share more, and to waste less) for at least 100-200 years, if it's true that government are hiding wast sealed oil reserves, than it's enough energy from oil for many generations yet to come, and if in few decades we manage to go 100% green (wind and solar) that we get enough energy for thousands and thousands of years. in theory.. there is infinite ways to solve our problems, why would anybody choose the easiest way to solve it?
military expenses worldwide are over 1000 millions each year. if only we could redirect at least 10% of it, we would have over 100M each year for new nuclear power plants to build, for schools, for water desalination plants. 100M is not very much, but it's 100M each year. in modest theory.
in practice, there are billions and billions collected from your taxes and wasted by our politicians god knows where how what for.. there are billions and billions wasted by all ppl in western world for parties, alcohol, etc
there is unimaginable amount of resources we waste every single god damn f**ing day..
I see only one problem, it's the way we think, always use destructive means to solve problems, cuz maybe constructive looks hard and painful.. so I don't know, you tell me

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Tim00]

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Tim00]