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Why is secrecy such an issue?

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posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by Josephus23

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Josephus23
 

But our Oaths don't supersede the US Constitution or any governments constitution and laws.


I would expect you to say that, but it does not mean that it is true.

That is the typical response and if that is the case, then why be secret at all.

Why not make it like joining the PTA. Record what you do in your ceremonies and put it out on the internet.
Put cameras in ALL lodges and make it completely open. I mean if someone serves the people, then they should have NO secrets.

Sorry dude, but that argument is horribly flaccid.


It is just like joining the PTA. Except that you can't be a felon and you have to believe in a higher power. Other than that, it's about the same. We are a private organization, so you won't see us put cameras in our lodges anytime soon. Although it has already been done and put out on the History Channel. I guess since that was on TV it doesn't count. We don't serve the people, we are a charitable group. The police serve the people. And they won't give you all access to what they discuss in private.

Masons in government is a safer bet than some groups might be. They at least have taken an oath to act with honor among men and brothers.




posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by Ausar
 


"Excuse me while I whip this out..."



But really, for you people who say ''no secrets!''.... if you don't want a world with secrets then you must be crazy. A world without secrets would be so brutal. Can you imagine somebody contemplating buying some stock in a company, asking the seller if the stock was worth buying, being told honestly the stock is not worth buying right now, replying ''then I'll wait a while'', but a guy behind you with a gun to your head says ''you buy it now or else!'' ??? Isn't a world of intrigue much better? Wouldn't you rather see an attractive woman on television saying ''market is going up'' followed by another attractive woman saying ''market is going down''? At least then you can decide for yourself. Win or lose. It is freedom. Freedom from the guy with the gun. This is cold war fun!

I think one of the secrets right now is to stockpile cash and come back to buy near the end of June. We'll have to wait to see if this is true or simply internet ramblings.



posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 

I'm just telling it like it is and it is the truth. Again, its about privacy and loyalty...two things that seem to be fading more and more as time goes by. Just because you don't like my answer doesn't make it wrong.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Josephus23


Why not make it like joining the PTA. Record what you do in your ceremonies and put it out on the internet.
Put cameras in ALL lodges and make it completely open. I mean if someone serves the people, then they should have NO secrets.



To be perfectly frank, its nobody else's business. If one wants to explore the Masonic mysteries, he may himself request initiation. If not, then nothing lost. End of story.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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since the masons are supposed to be a union of builders who work with stone; why would anything associated with a culture or knowledge be made subject to secrecy, since the culture and knowledge conferred would just be ways of finding moving lifting placing and cutting of stones.if they(masons) as a whole, within their union find knowledge in ways that one person makes a stone look when it is placed versus another, is their admiration secret?or is the fact that there is secrecy because the master builder would find faults in an apprentice attempting to learn how to make a complete work from the perception of just a stone placer or something other. as master builder it is illegal for any apprentice to study why you find my complete works pleasing to your eye.there need not be a reason why.

societies that secretly admire what is not secret remain a society unto themselves in secret.


but my question still remains; about secretions...


as long as "masons" can still make what kings commission without outside help; im sure its ok with them having rituals that have nothing(from my perspective) to do with construction.



posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by Ausar
since the masons are supposed to be a union of builders who work with stone; why would anything associated with a culture or knowledge be made subject to secrecy, since the culture and knowledge conferred would just be ways of finding moving lifting placing and cutting of stones.
Because if you knew the secrets of the Master builder then you could be hired for a Master's wages yourself. Intellectual property and trade secrets amounted to job security. No different than patent law and trade secrets today. The guy who knows the real formula for Coca-Cola could make a fortune selling it or making it himself. The only thing that prevents there being an exact taste-alike on the market is trade secrets.


if they(masons) as a whole, within their union find knowledge in ways that one person makes a stone look when it is placed versus another, is their admiration secret?or is the fact that there is secrecy because the master builder would find faults in an apprentice attempting to learn how to make a complete work from the perception of just a stone placer or something other. as master builder it is illegal for any apprentice to study why you find my complete works pleasing to your eye.there need not be a reason why.
It's not about the end result so much as learning how to use the working tools properly. What you do with the tools is up to the individual builder, but even the recognition of what those tools are and how to use them was once a secret. The guy who can square a stone so that two or more can be fitted together with no cracks is going to get hired over the guy who uses rocks of any shape and tries to make them fit. The guy who can build a vertical wall using a plum line is going to be capable of building taller walls than someone who's wall leans or isn't straight.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Ausar
 


Look at the difference between speculative and operative. Todays free and accepted masons are speculative masons. Meaning we don't necesarily build things out of stone. We learn alegoricaly, lessons that help with life.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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secrecy is fine. Misdirection, lies, and collusion are where the problems are. Karma has a way of catching up with those who think themselves above reproach.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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Secrecy is good sometimes. But people who are controlling other people and being secretive is not a good thing. Congress, senate, board room meetings, etc. These all have repercussions on the rest of us, therefore we need to know whats up.



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Sorcha Faal
secrecy is fine. Misdirection, lies, and collusion are where the problems are. Karma has a way of catching up with those who think themselves above reproach.


Absolutely! I couldn't have put it more succintly myself. I've always had issues with the lies, misdirection and collusion of anti-Masons.

But as you say, Karma's a witch!



posted on Jan, 21 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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it is impossible to disclose what you come to now for your self; knowledge learned in a method that differs from knowledge taught and conferred makes an even greater hurdle. if "the secret" is just a means by which i "acquire" the attention of the opposite sex, i have a problem with you smelling like me.if the word "secret" is to be understood in modern internet vernacular, keep to yourself your interpretation of symbols that are alien to you, til you come into being, with you dont? thus im sure, if masonry has tenets that are of an "european monarchy", in succession, of what people think masons posses they will have an issue with a truth seeing them in the face being undisclosed before an image or shadow of what masonry is, in lack of place. .



posted on Jan, 22 2010 @ 02:51 AM
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Again sir, I have trouble understanding the spirit or intent of your posts. I do commend you for adding some universally known punctuation marks, but otherwise a non-standard amalgam of words wont affect any respect or thought towards your posts. And "if "the secret" is just a means by which i "acquire" the attention of the opposite sex, i have a problem with you smelling like me. " well, this is getting disturbing sir.



posted on Feb, 8 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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as long as the secrets our goverment keep dont hurt we the people then they should keep then...but if the secret could hurt us in any way they should be told to os



posted on Feb, 11 2010 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


There is nothing wrong with keeping information private that would harm you. However, tell me what is the function of a secret society? To merely hang out and watch the game?? A book club where they dress up and play the roles of their favorite characters? Or maybe weekend full of gin rummy and water polo? The fact that many predominate figures from presidents and cabinet members., bank CEO's and other leading members of society all for the most part share some secret ties is not by chance.

I do not care about what secrets you may hold personally. However, you are one person. If there are more like you with similar back grounds, statuses and affiliations.. Maybe you arent so harmless now. With whispers of you in documents dating back hundreds of years opposing the idea you may or may not represent. That is when you are no longer something dismissible, but in fact you are more of a threat because I simply dont know. And if there is nothing to hide.. why hide it?



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