posted on Feb, 4 2010 @ 07:32 PM
'Amen I say to you: Yohananon bar Zechariah was sent not eating and drinking, and the sons of men called him 'possessed' : whereas the Bar-Enasha
('son of Man') was sent both eating and drinking, and the sons of men say, 'behold a Glutton and a Drunkard !'
We can't be sure how much the man R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean actually imbibed, but he seemed to eschew asceticism UN-like his former Rabbi
Yohananon bar Zechariah ('John the Baptist' who baptised him) ...at any rate they called R. Yehoshua a 'drunk'--at least according to the gospels
(e.g. 'Luke' 7:34 and 'Matthew' 11:19, whoever they were).
Maybe the reference is to his being 'a glutton and a drunkard' stems from his being 'uncivil to his mother' (judginf from his rather rude language
in the 4th gospel) in the Water to Wine Myth --which is specifically set at the town of Cana in the Galilee (which just happens to be the exact center
of Palestinian Dionysius-Bacchus cult (Mystery) worship, and we all konw that Bacchus/Dionysius was, significantly, the god of wine) in the 4th Greek
canonical Gospel - whoever 'Yohanon the Elder' was...
('and Mary his mother said to him, They Have No Wine', and Iesous said, Ishah, Mah Li-uh-leckhah ?' ('woman, I have nothing to do with you !')
lit. 'lady, what to me and to you?' ('John' 2:1-5 &tc.)
Sounds pretty darned disrespectful to talk to Mummykins like that. Esepcially for a Rabbi who should have known better: most likey (especially in view
of the magic wand stuff) the whole Cana Water to Wine pericope is a midrashic symbolic story, not to be taken 'historically'-it is NOT found in any
of the other 'canonical' council approved gospels at any rate :
See the Torah commands about talking back to one's mum: naughty naughty--it carried the DEATH PENALTY...
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or his mother, and when they have scolded him, will not
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate and they shall say unto the
elders of his city,
Our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice;
HE IS GLUTTON AND A DRUNKARD !
Then all the males of his town shall stone him with stones, until he dies and since he has committed a sin worthy of death, and after you have
executed him, you will then hang him on a tree—but his corpse shall not remain all night upon the tree, but you will bury him while still daylight
for he who is hanged upon a tree is accursed of EL."
Maybe it was his mother who called him the Glutton and the Drunkard, who knows...but it is curious, is it not, that we have in the same pericope in
the 4th canonical Greek gospel (whoever wrote it) a CLUSTER of ideas that link R. Yehoshua to not only wine (Eucharist) but ALSO to being called a
GLUTTON AND A DRUNKARD and also about being HUNG ON A TREE and BURIED BEFORE SUN-DOWN, all of which are gospel themes in the socalled canonical
It could be that the whole pericope in the 4th gospel, according to 'John' (whoever he was) about the socalled Wedding at Cana is a symbolic story
not to be taken literally. Since Palestinian Jews typically used daily mikvah baths for ritual-cleanliness (water) and early Christians performed a
kind of weekly wine and bread ceremony (eucharist, using the 'blood of the grape') we can see a symbolic statement here : from water (mikvah) to
wine (Eucharist) sort of displaying/illustrating the move of post Destruction Christians (who were originally Messianic Jews called Ebionim) in
Palestine to the new rituals of what was quickly (after the events of 70CE ground the state of Israel and Jerusalem to powder, including the
ritual-centered 2nd Temple of Herod) emerging as a whollly new religion centered around a person and a Eucharist ritual, and open to a different (i.e.
The whole Cana story may be a symbolic message illustrating the final rift between the original Judaic Messianic Kashrut gentile hating followers or
'Iesous' (who were all dead for the most part after the 1st Failed Jewish War Against Rome in 70CE) and the later Pauline, Gentile loving Kashrut
hating Torah-eschewing Christians' who traded in the mikvah ritual cleansings of the Torah for the Eucharist...
One must always be on guard when we read gospel pericopes about taking anything LITERALLY since the material is highly imbued with symbolism and
hagaddic midrash which were meant to be SYMBOLIC not historical...
Another aspect of the whole story may involve the so-called Our God is Better than Your God type of Mentality, since Cana was after all a major center
of Bacchus/Dionysius (wine god) worship in the Galillee--so naturally CANA and WINE and the GOD would be linked together in the telling of the story.
One could almost say, Our Iesous REPLACES your Dionysius Bacchus (in other words, OUR Mysteries i.e. of Christ, are BETTER than YOUR Mysteries of
Dionysius-Bacchus !..) since in those days there existed nearly 40 of these Mystery Cults (e.g. the Mysteries of Isis, the Mysteries of Mithras, the
Mysteries of Serapis (Osiris-Apis), the Mysteries of Zeus, the Mysteries of Adonis (Attannuzzi) etc. and all these mystery religions flowing
inexorably along busy and well travelled Roman roads --and all in competition with each other for new members. Christianity was just another Mystery
Religion to many within the Diaspora (cf: Paul: 'behold I tell you a Mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed, etc. or the
description of Christianity among the Bishops as 'Our Mysteries of Christ' etc.'.
And Alexandria (where the 4th gospel was thought to have been composed) was stuffed to the rafters with foreign Mystery Religious cults all vyng for
new tithe paying politically active audiences---and it is well known that many high ranking persons were members of several of these Mystery Relgions
at the same time--only the Christians (like the Jews before them) seemed to want 'exclusivity' in that regard...and eventually they would run out by
the 3rd and 4th centuries and violently destroy many of the shrines of Mithras and Bacchus Mysteries...
Bear all of these things in mind when you read the Cana Pericopes in the 4th canonical Greek gospel ('John') - there is more than meets the eye in
these compact narratives--and the more you look, the more you sometimes find !!!!!!
[edit on 4-2-2010 by Sigismundus]