Is teaching religion child abuse?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by hangedman13

 

The atheists like to pick on the christians,because they can get away with
it.

So it was olk when the christians were getting away with it for so long ?

No ones picking on anyone xtianity just happens to be in the majority in the west M, if you and I happen to have been born in Afghanistan you would be saying the same thing about Islam.

reply to post by moocowman


Actually in some countries Santa has a giant demonic helper who tortures the naughty children

Edit to Add: Krampus, Santa's Evil Helper

My point is religion is no different from any fairy-tale and that's how it should be taught to children. I mentioned that the fire and brimstone parts that instill guilt shouldn't be told to children in my post. As someone who lived with that guilt for years when I was a Christian I understand the protests against it. Many Christians these days are embracing a kinder gentler more merciful version of God and are throwing out parts of the Bible that paint him as a vengeful tyrant. God is in our image as is religion so there are only certain aspects that would be bad for children... Not sure if those negative aspects constitute abuse, no more than putting your kid in front of the TV at a young age (now THAT'S abuse).


[edit on 5-1-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by hangedman13

 

The atheists like to pick on the christians,because they can get away with
it.

Hypocritical bigot, hope you like your freedom of speech to post threads that are obvious digs at non-believers of the Christian God.

Originally posted by sirnex
Whoa, where in the hell are you pulling that BS garbage from?

Alright, Sirnex ?
What is your definition of ''abuse'' in this instance ? Can you explain how a concept such as child abuse can exist in atheistic thinking ?

reply to post by Parallex

I know far too many people. My brother actively helps victims of religious abuse, so I get to hear all of the gory details.

Now that would make a very interesting thread if you could find the time

Originally posted by moocowman
No gods in my house friend, yet my kids are ok with the "golden suggestion", They screw up they have to consider their actions and consequences to others not blame the bogeyman and then beg another bogeyman for forgiveness for fear of the unspeakable.

Hello, Moocowman.
Of course that is entirely your prerogative how you raise your children. I personally have no objection if someone wants to raise their children as atheists if they believe that is best for them.
My point is, though, that teaching children your own relativist morals is no different to teaching your child a particular religion.

reply to post by moocowman


It depends on which branch of christianity you are talking about?

My church asks parents' permission before talking to their children.
A lot of parents allow us to take their children to church and sunday
school.I sometimes get the feeling it's because they want the kid's out
of the house for awhile.

reply to post by Benji1999

What is your definition of ''abuse'' in this instance ? Can you explain how a concept such as child abuse can exist in atheistic thinking ?

Wiki:Child Abuse

Yet, in light of the topic at hand, I view teaching certain religious aspects as truth also as abuse. Teaching intolerance of gays, teaching children to be too trusting source of people in authoritative positions, etc. We also are left dealing with children who grow to be narrow minded uneducated nitwits, to me another form of abuse. How about we agree to let the kids decide what is true rather than forcing an archaic superstitious belief down their throats?

reply to post by moocowman


If you and I were in afghanistan,world war three would begin.You, being
an atheist and me, a fundamental baptist,would be the catalyst for global
destruction.I would be trying to teach the children about Jesus.You would
be trying to convince the children that Jesus was a mythical fairy.This
combination,would be confusing to everyone and would serve no purpose.

reply to post by Benji1999

My point is, though, that teaching children your own relativist morals is no different to teaching your child a particular religion.

Oh indeed there is a big deal of difference my friend, my kids are asked to consider how they behave in relation to others.

They are not threatened by an invisible man in the sky that keeps an eye on them when I'm not looking to torture them fro eternity should they screw up.

Watch the kids in this clip and imagine what thier reaction would be should they have been told that if they open the box a demon would come one night and whisk them away to hell.

reply to post by moocowman

Watch the kids in this clip and imagine what thier reaction would be should they have been told that if they open the box a demon would come one night and whisk them away to hell.

Good video.

I'm betting that if the children were told that a demon would come get them if they opened the box, they would walk away. They wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Power of suggestion. It's so impressionable on the children.

Good example.

Originally posted by sirnex
Wiki:Child Abuse

Thanks for your reply, mate.
I concede that I was wrong in not differentiating between physical and psychological/emotional abuse. My comment was in regards to non-physical abuse.
From the wikipedia article:

''Child abuse is the physical or psychological/emotional mistreatment of children.''

So what's mistreatment ? The Merriam-Webster definition sais:

'': to treat badly : abuse''

How can someone be treated 'badly' if there is no right or wrong ? They can't.
The atheist world-view sais that the concept of right and wrong is as imaginary to them as God is.

Yet, in light of the topic at hand, I view teaching certain religious aspects as truth also as abuse. Teaching intolerance of gays, teaching children to be too trusting source of people in authoritative positions, etc.
We also are left dealing with children who grow to be narrow minded uneducated nitwits, to me another form of abuse. How about we agree to let the kids decide what is true rather than forcing an archaic superstitious belief down their throats?

Again, raising children like this can't be wrong if there's no such thing.
Yes, someone may personally think it's wrong, but what's that got to do with the price of fish ?!
Is it not just as wrong forcing your personal opinion on what a parent can and can't teach their child ?
This is the problem I have with the atheist world-view; it keeps on contradicting itself, rendering living a rational existence under it as next to impossible !

I think children should be raised under a general belief of their parents...in the sense that they know if their parents have a 'belief' even if that 'belief' is of no God. I do feel sorry for children that have a belief forced apone them that makes them afraid to think other wise.

Saying that...I also feel chidlren should learn about all walks of 'beliefs' and not be discouraged to venture on this path of seeking for themselves, not by their parents or by their culture or by their governments.

I think there should be given 'birth rights' for people to seek for themselves.

The last time I was in a church was for my children who wanted to go to Bible School. They had not been in church for about a year, but before that, they went with me regularly. I had stopped going myself, we had made a huge move (totally different state) and my thoughts (beliefs) had shifted also...I was on a personal path not needing that weekly gathering. Anyways....my daughter, who was 10 at the time, came home one evening after Bible school...broke down in tears before bedtime and cried for a good 30 mins because she felt from what the church was teaching her, God might decide to stop loving her.

Ive been through this whole ordeal in my own mind....what do I teach my children. Ive decided to start putting out some of my own research books on my public bookshelf (for I have plenty of them I keep put away for my personal research) so if they ever want to seek a path besides what they find me to believe, the door is open for that.

What is most important is not so much the belief you raise your children in...but of what nature you raise them to be, what nature your home environment is.

I find little opportunities all the time to teach them about being more serving to others, while protecting ones self....be giving, if you have it to give...be thankful, for what you have, instead of focusing your regrets on what you dont have....welcome others in your home, make your home a place that is welcoming....encourage interests in the environment, not wasting things even though you have plenty of something....encourage them to never leave kids out (not to stereotype and label other children), but include everyone in the game of kick ball outside...dont brag to friends, dont say or act in ways that makes them look better then anyone else....care about life in general, animals, plants, ect....do right because it benefits more people then just your own self, not because someone says its the better way....encourage them to find logic and reason within each decision and choice they make...teach them to have self confidence, show them you have self confidence....most of all, while their kids...encourage them to be kids, laugh with them, play games with them, relax and enjoy just 'being' with them. Kids are the future...it starts with them.

The main teacher of all children, is the person they watch all through their childhood...through a learned behavior.

Just because my kids are 'mine' doesnt mean they dont have a birth right outside of 'me'.

Give them room, be a part of their growing experiences, raise them with love and attention, continue to show love, even if they grow up with different ways then your own.

Originally posted by moocowman
Oh indeed there is a big deal of difference my friend, my kids are asked to consider how they behave in relation to others.

Precisely my point. It's hardly empirically shown that considering others is the correct way to live one's life, therefore it's your personal belief that that is the right way to bring them up.
I'm assuming you're an atheist, so you don't believe in an absolute right or wrong.
So how can it be 'right' to bring up children with the golden rule, but 'wrong' to bring up children with religion ?

They are not threatened by an invisible man in the sky that keeps an eye on them when I'm not looking to torture them fro eternity should they screw up.

Watch the kids in this clip and imagine what thier reaction would be should they have been told that if they open the box a demon would come one night and whisk them away to hell.

Not everyone believes in God doing that !

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Benji1999]

reply to post by Benji1999

I'm assuming you're an atheist, so you don't believe in an absolute right or wrong. So how can it be 'right' to bring up children with the golden rule, but 'wrong' to bring up children with religion ?

'Right' and 'wrong' are more of philosophical terms.

Actually we can say that the Golden Rule is not really about morality, but practicality. Do you want to live and have rights in a society? Then treat others with the same rights.

Hurting other people is not 'right' or 'wrong'. If you want to hurt others, you have to expect others to do the same to you. You can't get away with it.

It works every time.

reply to post by Benji1999

How can someone be treated 'badly' if there is no right or wrong ? They can't.

Who is to say there is no right or wrong? I may be an atheist who accepts the possibility of a creator (just not any of the man made deities), but I accept that there is an apparent ability to discern right from wrong. The way I like to think of it, if I would not want it done to me or my own, it's wrong.

Do I want to be screamed at, beaten or humiliated? No.

So why would I subject my children or anyone else to such acts?

Religious people have to understand, you don't need God to be moral.

The atheist world-view sais that the concept of right and wrong is as imaginary to them as God is.

That is complete BS as far as I am concerned. Please cite your sources of information that state this of atheism. All Atheism is, is a disbelief in all man made deities as actual entities and creators. I don't know which deity if any you personally believe in, but whatever the case may be, disbelief in all others makes you a mild atheist.

Again, raising children like this can't be wrong if there's no such thing.

No one says there is no wrong as far as I know. Except religious idiots trying to argue against atheism.

Yes, someone may personally think it's wrong, but what's that got to do with the price of fish ?!

A great deal actually. If fish cost $3 a LB and suddenly jumped up to $10 a LB while supply and demand remained unchanged, that's just BS and wrong. I wouldn't be able to eat as much fish anymore, and I love fish.

Is it not just as wrong forcing your personal opinion on what a parent can and can't teach their child ?

No, not at all. Unless your an Al-Qaeda sympathizer? Should we just allow people to teach their kids to blow themselves up in some holy Jihad?

This is the problem I have with the atheist world-view; it keeps on contradicting itself, rendering living a rational existence under it as next to impossible !

Perhaps if we got our heads out of God's ass we would be able to realize there are no contradictions. Atheism only asserts that there are no God(s), there is nothing else to it other than that. How can that be contradictory? In order for atheism to be able to contradict itself, it would have to state that there are no God(s) and then devise it's own deity to believe in. Do you understand what Atheism is or are you arguing against it with ignorance of it?

[edit on 5-1-2010 by sirnex]

reply to post by Benji1999


Benji...

Could you explain to me why you reason that an atheist doesnt have a 'right or wrong' perspective for things in life?

Are you saying an 'atheist' wouldnt have an opinion on stealing, killing, lying, boasting, greediness, selfishness...ect?

Surely you know better then to make such a stereotypical statement, unless I am misunderstanding what you wrote...please correct me if I am, by all means.

My father has never felt the need to 'believe' in things he couldnt see or know with his senses...but he is a very humbled nature person who lives for others more then himself. I have some great friends that dont feel the need to 'believe' but yet are some of the greatest people that really stand up for good morals and expect good values from others around them.

For some atheists...I would say that they do right because they see reasoning's in their actions, instead of someone needing to tell them it is the 'right' way.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by moocowman

 

Watch the kids in this clip and imagine what thier reaction would be should they have been told that if they open the box a demon would come one night and whisk them away to hell.

Good video.

I'm betting that if the children were told that a demon would come get them if they opened the box, they would walk away. They wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.



Power of suggestion. It's so impressionable on the children.

Good example.

Indeed my friend, and if you don't remove the suggestion (that's if it's possible) from the mind of the child it will lurk and turn into a troll at the back of the mind waiting for someone or something to push the button and awaken the monster.

Women are a particularity powerful example of the the power of suggestion for any religionist that doesn't believe it.

Any husband that has ever mad a derogatory remark about his wife will know that she will never let him get away with it.

10, 20 or 50 years later during a heated exchange she will remind him of exactly what he said . Where he said it the time and date it happened the weather outside and what he was going to have for dinner but didn't get because he was twat and offended her on a deep emotional level.

When you combine a powerful suggestion such as an insult or a lie with a deep emotion it simply lurks, in the case of a child that does not know the truth from fiction and the emotion is deep fear then you are asking for trouble.

Christianity speaks of faith ie belief without the need of evidence and it boldly claims that believing something is enough to realize it. We are all aware of the placebo effect it is there .

It is very important for us as a species to recognize that when we tell children idiotic things like not to touch their or satan will come for them or it will fall of we can be implanting a deep rooted time bomb.

When the child is old enough to reason it will have noticed at a subconscious level that on each occasion it touched its' genitals and they didn't fall off or a monster didn't come.

They have never been told by the person that implanted the lie that it was a lie and the fear that was associated with the lie was never resolved, the child had to somehow rationalize (rational lies) it's way out of the dilemma.

Children accept everything a parent tells them as fact, it is necessary in order for them to survive till their mature enough to think critically.

"Don't play on the ice it could break and you could fall in"

When the kids get spotty they will play on the ice the thrill they get is the danger you implanted in them, they know it's bloody dangerous that's why they do it for that buzz, overcoming a necessary fear.

What happens when the child is a boy, and you replace "ice" with "penis" and fall in with "damnation for all eternity, courtesy of an invisible man in the sky" ?????

No wonder our world is so screwed up !

reply to post by moocowman

Any husband that has ever mad a derogatory remark about his wife will know that she will never let him get away with it.

10, 20 or 50 years later during a heated exchange she will remind him of exactly what he said . Where he said it the time and date it happened the weather outside and what he was going to have for dinner but didn't get because he was twat and offended her on a deep emotional level.

LOL! I had to have my wife read that one, she got a kick out of it.

No, It's isn't. I mean what is freedom? ok.