President Gives Foreign Cops Power Over Americans

Originally posted by merkaba93
Anyone can now be made an "Interpol Agent" at the whim of some "officials" at the UN

What on earth are you on about? Why do you think a "official" at the UN has any say over Interpol - it is obviously you are clueless, and have no idea at all what Interpol does, or how it is made up or works!

if you didn't or couldn't stop the patriot act before you can't stop this. if you didn't stop the bail outs before you couldn't stop this. it's not like you only have the right to revolt because the constitution said that you could. you could revolt anytime you want to but most people just need something to believe they are doing the right thing. so the cowards will continue to whine and do nothing anyway so i just wish they'd stop whining at all.

IMO, executive orders just do an end-run around the legislative process & aren't constitutional.

I fail to see how this supposed power Obama is allegedly granting could possibly be found constitutional.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Polynomial C
The INTERPOL is here to catch INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS .. Kidnappers, Mafia people, Organ Harvesters, ETC.. ETC..

It's a slap in the face of American citizens who may be abused by these non-citizen cops from countries that don't recognize our constitutional protections," warns former New York City detective and Marine intelligence officer Sidney Franes.

So what are you saying Polynomial?

Anyone can be considered a "suspect", but that doesn't matter to you?

I totally agree with you about Interpol and what might or will occur if they can come into this country and not be under THE SAME LAWS THAT GOVERN POLICE. Lets look at this at a different angle. Why did the US go after people who where hiding money offshore and in Zurich etc., you would think that rich people would be left alone. They where, you see the opening of international bank accounts and moving money overseas has became to mainstream and commercialized. Which means that people maybe hiding 200,000 dollars or a few million could have had it done. They went after the people who weren't the super rich and politically unconnected. They don't want the american people to have the ability to move their assets out in a hurry when the economy shows increased signs of imploding (currency and other controls). Because all economists will tell you that once the populace start pulling their money out and moving it out of the problem country, it speeds up the implosion because the money isn't there for the banks to use to keep the country solvent.

So looking at Interpol who won't follow the same rules as the American police. The US if they have information that people are moving assets (which isn't illegal you just have to declare the income and such, which by that time you would be long gone and most likely a citizen of another country) they could use Interpol as a tool to get after said individuals by declaring them whatever crime. So they could get locked up and imprisoned in any country that is a signatory and part of Interpol network (which is alot). It can happen, I remember this 60 minutes piece where a capt. of a yacht was accused of stealing a yacht (which the owner of it, a Greek businessman reported it stolen so he could get the insurance money) by the owner and once this man was back in a country that was part of the Interpol network, they ran the name on the passport and he was arrested when he tried to get into Turkey for another job as a yacht captain. He lingered in a Turkish jail for a number of years until they let him go because of health reasons and press coverage.

The don't want Americans leaving the country and they definitely don't want us to take money out of the country. This is forward thinking by Obamas people, because they know that our economy is kaput and don't want the money that could be taxed or the expertise that could be used to "fix" the problem to hightail it out of here with their money and assets.

reply to post by hoghead cheese


You say it is smart of Obama, do you think it is legal?

I see you appreciate how smart he is, do you feel the US government has any right to stop people from leaving with their assets and money.

Or do you feel that money and assets belong to the government?

Because if their is a country that has non extradition with the US, it would start to look like a very good idea to start bailing on this police state coming.

It's not INTERPOL itself that worries me, it's our own LEOs acting as INTERPOL authorities, or under the color of INTERPOL's authority. What's to keep our own LEOs from violating constitutional rights and claiming it's an INTERPOL investigation, labeling all of their related documents as INTERPOL's, and then claiming immunity because it was all done "by" INTERPOL?

reply to post by ModernAcademia



I am still on the fence on this (by end of post i think i find where i am), while I agree that America's only way to sort out the corruption may be an international body, I am skeptical about why ANY country would want them having this power without transparency.
As far as I am concerned Interpol is still made up of humans and humans = corruption. What scares me is that once we have corruption in Interpol we have an international body that has full policing power over the world and nobody will have the power to check up on them? This combined with the fact that TPTB have already blatantly stated for years they want a 1 world government sends alarm bells ringing. Create international policing partnerships by all means - but nothing should ever go off the radar, and I don't beleive the president or anyone else should be able to take away your right to know what is going on in your own country - DONT LET THEM!

Further I found this section on terrorism from their site interesting
click here
It comes back to the old issue of how do you define a terrorist, is a terrorist someone wearing a turban, someone trying to suicide bomb somthing, or someone that commits war crimes. What i'm trying to say is all this terrorist BS does not define anything it is a label you put on someone that suits you because you feel they may attack you etc But it does not take in to consideration why they are attacking or if they were attacked first it is just a label that so far is misused consantly. More worrying is the talk about september 11th on this page but no other terrorists such as world leaders that commit war crimes or any other bombings are menitioned - once again sends alarm bells ringing as there are so many more horrible crimes commited all the time and september 11th was just 1 of them - it is just more important to eveyone in America because it was against them for once.
1 More thing the site lists weapons of mass destruction - the USA has the most in the world, this looks to me like it is the next step towards the NWO as it still uses the terms of TPTB in the USA and still has their policies.. I think the elite are simply moving out of America in to international waters - Remember who the elite are and remember they have a hold on EVERYTHING they will be all over this like a rash even if they are not currently behind it, and the corruption will follow.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by byteshertz]

[edit on 4-1-2010 by byteshertz]

This is horrible.

The problem with the Progressive movement is they see America as a threat to the world and America needs to be put in check. They never talk about the corruption of foreign countries and international bodies, they just blame America for everything.

This is Obama's mentality. He thinks America needs to be kept in check via international law.

This is why he said he wants a civilian police force juat as strong and well funded as the military. He said the Constitution was fundamentally flawed because it restrains government and doesn't talk about the redistribution of wealth.

Governments are corrupt and the Founders saw government as a neccessary evil. This is why they restrained and limited government. Obama and the Progressives don't like this restraint.

What they don't realise is that an international government will be just as corrupt as a national government. All governments are corrupt to the core because of human nature. You give a small group of people control and power over vast resources and you have corruption.

The Progessive movement is blinded by fantasy and ideology. They think an international body will be pure. They will be worse as they gain power.

The only chance that people have is a Constitution that "restrains" government. The Progressives want to take away these restraints and give more power to governments and international bodies.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by hoghead cheese

 

You say it is smart of Obama, do you think it is legal?

I see you appreciate how smart he is, do you feel the US government has any right to stop people from leaving with their assets and money.

Or do you feel that money and assets belong to the government?

Because if their is a country that has non extradition with the US, it would start to look like a very good idea to start bailing on this police state coming.

Actually I said it was forward thinking of his people (Bernanke, Geitner, Hillary, Emmanuelle etc. etc., you know the ones that control him). As tone of my post showed, I'm against them stopping the free flow of money out of the country or any country. For the simple fact I have to look out for myself and my family if it looks like things are falling apart. You see this is forward thinking because all of the promises that the govt. made to their citizens won't be fulfilled, period. They know it and the PTB in the world knows it also. So they are manouvering themselves and their assets in such a way that when the final hammer comes down, they will be safe and we will be left holding an empty bag in a 4th world country with no industry and rich enclaves of people using us as cheap labor. And at the same time they want to be able to keep us as a country that isn't divided into 5 areas.

What I believe is that the american govt. and american people should take this fiscal medicine. It will be bad and it will be hard, but out of it we could build a new and better society that won't be based on cronyism capitalism and govt. and religious leaders who are either to naive or just plain selfish to be in office. People need to see what their leaders have put us into, and thats why the leaders are playing every game in the book (martial law bill, IRS going after assets overseas, Interpol and continous war) in order to keep our minds off of you really screwed us, and that was them. There throwing the kitchen sink out there to keep the game going and to obfuscate the issues. Obama or Bush or the other Presidents who know about this can't walk out one Monday morning in a news conference and say WE ARE BROKE as a country, the govt. even if they raised taxes to take 100% of your check won't pay for SS or Medicare and the states who are always not funding their pensions don't have the money and won't have the money to make those pensions or social services whole, and the dollar has to be replaced because the world is awash in greenbacks that has lost value ever since being taken off of the gold standard.

The country would heave and the world would heave, and nobody will pay attention to whats coming out of the federal govt's mouth because it will be Katy Bar the Door for people to look out for themselves. And states will start to go their own way in order to be their own country and not send anymore resources (not money anymore) to the central govt. California especially since the make up 13% of the national GDP. There doing all of these little tricks in order to make it seem that everything is good (happy thoughts, bread and circuses) when it's not. The problem with bread and circuses is that eventually you run out of bread and the circuses start to look stale.

Deos anyone have an actual link to the bill and/or provision? Or just interpretations from right wing/left wing sources?

I would like to see the actual phrasing and specific exclusions instead of relying on the NYT or Examiner.

reply to post by lordtyp0

Originally posted by Polynomial C

Originally posted by jam321
The executive orders pertain to a law written in 1945.

en.wikisource.org...

Definition of international organization

For the purposes of this title, the term ‘‘international organization’’ means a public international organization in which the United States participates pursuant to any treaty or under the authority of any Act of Congress authorizing such participation or making an appropriation for such participation, and which shall have been designated by the President through appropriate Executive order as being entitled to enjoy the privileges, exemptions, and immunities herein provided

en.wikisource.org...

Regan amended it in 1983

en.wikisource.org...

Clinton amended it in 1995

en.wikisource.org...

Obama in 2009

www.whitehouse.gov...


I don't see how this affects the average American.

Thanks jam321 for the research .. i am sure this will shut the paranoid's mouth

AMENDING EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 DESIGNATING INTERPOL
AS A PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION ENTITLED TO
ENJOY CERTAIN PRIVILEGES, EXEMPTIONS, AND IMMUNITIES

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (22 U.S.C. 288),
and in order to extend the appropriate privileges, exemptions, and immunities to the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL),

it is hereby ordered that Executive Order 12425 of June 16, 1983, as amended, is further amended by deleting from the first sentence the words "except those provided by Section 2(c), Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 of that Act" and the semicolon that immediately precedes them.



2.c: (c) Property and assets of international organizations, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall be immune from search, unless such immunity be expressly waived, and from confiscation. The archives of international organizations shall be inviolable.

Would give Interpol immunity to search and seizure.

3ursuant to regulations prescribed by the Commissioner of Customs with the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, the baggage and effects of alien officers and employees of international organizations, or of aliens designated by foreign governments to serve as their representatives in or to such organizations, or of the families, suites, and servants of such officers, employees, or representatives shall be admitted (when imported in connection with the arrival of the owner) free of customs duties and free of internal-revenue taxes imposed upon or by reason of importation.

Extends 2.c. Makes it so they are not taxed for importing or exporting.

4: Removes taxation liability.

5: removes income tax requirements including social security pay ins for foreign nationals.

6: removes property taxations....


This is what everyone is afraid of? Interpol not having to pay customs and taxes = forfeiture of rights? "Obama is stupid"

Really?

reply to post by lordtyp0


Well .. the people who are going crazy over this NEVER read the actual document .. they are afraid of nothing .. sad .. really sad ..

Originally posted by Polynomial C
reply to post by lordtyp0

 

Well .. the people who are going crazy over this NEVER read the actual document .. they are afraid of nothing .. sad .. really sad ..

Don't forget: Reagan gave them all the rights of diplomatic immunity: Just held the right to tax them. Obama removes taxation and suddenly it is progressives dominating with stupidity and oppression.

Kind of funny logic really.

reply to post by Polynomial C


Good thing we had people like you sitting back and waiting for other people to try to prove their points.

Actually section 8 - which interpol is still bound reads:

SEC. 8.
(a) No person shall be entitled to the benefits of this title unless he (1) shall have been duly notified to and accepted by the Secretary of State as a representative, officer, or employee; or (2) shall have been designated by the Secretary of State, prior to formal notification and acceptance, as a prospective representative, officer, or employee; or (3) is a member of the family or suite, or servant, of one of the foregoing accepted or designated representatives, officers, or employees.
(b) Should the Secretary of State determine that the continued presence in the United States of any person entitled to the benefits of this title is not desirable, he shall so inform the foreign government or international organization concerned, as the case may be, and after such person shall have had a reasonable length of time, to be determined by the Secretary of State, to depart from the United States, he shall cease to be entitled to such benefits.
(c) No person shall, by reason of the provisions of this title, be considered as receiving diplomatic status or as receiving any of the privileges incident thereto other than such as are specifically set forth herein.

Read section C. They wont have diplomatic status. Basically after they apply for recognition they would get preferential treatment... Not immunity. Not any sort of power over anyone.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell when I read a GOOD OPINION:
LINK

And this is why you should not pretend to be a lawyer. Ready?

Interpol has no police force. It conducts no investigations. It doesn’t arrest anyone. As an international organization it was not subject to FOIA requests anyway, because it’s not a department of the federal government.

As a previous poster noted, this is NOT DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY. This is immunity from attachment of any property that Interpol may have in the USA. Any employees of Interpol, if any, stationed in the USA can and would still be arrested for crimes they commit. In summary, both the original submitter and basically every comment I’ve seen so far are not just wrong, they are comically wrong.

Interpol, is just going to assign the job -- likely to the FBI. If the DO have someone working a case over here -- it gives them NO EXTRA RIGHTS. It means practically, that they don't get the evidence they have for a crime of someone else -- used against THEM.

I'm not happy with Obama NOT getting us out of our foreign wars and NOT getting rid of Bush's power grabs -- but ATS has many people spouting whatever nonsense looks bad for Obama. You can't make headway against Government incursion on the rights of the people, if you don't pay attention to what is actually being done.

In our country, Interpol should act ONLY in concert with our criminal justice system. And we must have the last say

Originally posted by arbiture
In our country, Interpol should act ONLY in concert with our criminal justice system. And we must have the last say

Thats how it works. The only change Obama did was removed the tangled mess of taxation from the organization.

Would give Interpol immunity to search and seizure.

So any investigation's into corruption from domestic organizations would be prevented.

4: Removes taxation liability.

5: removes income tax requirements including social security pay ins for foreign nationals.

6: removes property taxations....

So they get to come into our nation, and live here but not pay any taxes that regular US citizens have to pay? That is horsecocks plain and simple.