Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

The Truth About Dolphins

...scientists, following a trail of bloody clues, are discovering that dolphins are far from the happy, peaceful creatures that humans think they know.

Growing evidence shows that the big animals, up to 12 feet long, are killing fellow mammals in droves, wielding their beaks as clubs and slashing away with rows of sharp teeth. Dolphins have been found to bludgeon porpoises to death by the hundreds. Unlike most animal killers, which eat their prey, dolphins seem to have murderous urges unrelated to the need for food.

They have even been observed in recurring acts of infanticide.

Off Scotland, a scientist watched in shock for nearly an hour as an adult dolphin repeatedly picked up a baby in its mouth and smacked it against the water, over and over, until it sank from view.

Off Virginia, researchers found at least nine baby dolphins killed, their ribs broken, their skulls and vertebrae smashed. One small body bore puncture marks matching the pattern of adult dolphin teeth.

Dolphins Slaughtering Porpoises

The conservation group Okeanis shot video of bottlenose dolphins fatally attacking a porpoise. It shows male dolphins coralling the porpoise, ramming it and drowning it, then bringing the carcass to researchers on a boat and swimming away.

Legal rights work both ways. It has been known for many years that Dolphins kill for sport, commit murders and even kill their own young.

The concept of giving animals human rights is about as fringe as it gets. Protect animals from needless killing by all means but carrying it to this level is beyond sanity.

Is it OK for a Dolphin to murder Porpoises or kill their own children and wrong if a fisherman accidentally kills a Dolphin gathering food for survival?

We are the ones with the problem here. We have humans among us who deny their own nature. Who risk their own lives and health eating unnatural diets they ironically call natural. Who want other humans punished for eating their natural diets; the diet they evolved to eat. Who are blind to how brutal animals are and think they are cute cuddly little toys to be played with. Who will let their own suffer to protect animals that don't even have Cerebral Cortex. Who let 60,000 people suffer to save a Smelt which is one of the most prolific fish on the planet and could be easily restocked if needed after the water emergency is over (referring to the farms and lives destroyed in California that led to higher food prices worldwide causing more starvation on the planet).

reply to post by Bobbox1980


See it. Great movie. It has to do with the gaia hypothesis. Yes, that's what they did in the movie, but they gave him a new body, not robotic.

See it in 3d too

reply to post by Blaine91555


Yep yer right!

And almost every predator kills for sports, either for "fun" or "practice", dolphins, tigers, sharks, and even domestic dogs and cats - every predatory species does it and we also do it.

Killing is part of our planet all together, and includes us and the rest of them... its the only thing which is common to ALL creatures on this planet including us, both for feeding and sports.

Ironic that the only thing that binds us all together is the killing huh?

I think all Animals are more intelligent than we give them credit for. We are so arrogant as a species. I think they are simply happy with how they exist. They see no need to complicate there lives any further. There happy with what they've got and simply stick to what they know.

Lets take Parrots for example. They've never been observed mimicking any other animals in the wild. Why? because they've got no need to. They only need to communicate with each other which they do just fine. Take them out of there natural habbitat and stick them in a cage in your living room. Being naturaly social animals they then try to communicate with us.
We think they're copying us when they're actually trying to learn are language. Kind of like when a baby starts copying words it hears.

All Life is extremely intelligent in its own little way. But only humans are arrogant enough to start comparing it to our selves.

reply to post by Algebra


Perhaps because we're the only sapient species on this planet?

Well you all may have your argue about "equal rights", sentient and sapient species when we give birth to true A.I... will it be a person? Will it have rights? etc etc... not with animals come on. I cant remember the last time I heard a dolphin asking where did he come from, how does he exist and if he has a soul or not, or where do dead dolphins go when they die maybe dolphin heaven or something...

Until A.I doesnt show up, we're the only sapient species... only A.I can change that tho and answer these questions

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Thats exactly what i mean. They dont ask themselves theses questions because they see no need to. Maybe they already know what happens to them when they die. Maybe humans are just to dumb to see it. Maybe the answers to all lifes little questions are right in front of faces. But where to busy arguing whether or not theres a god to see them. Filling our heads with questions that have no real meaning any way.

Edit to add

How do you know they dont think these things antway? Are you psychic are you so arrogant to think that no other species any where on the planet contemplates its own existence.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Algebra]

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


When I was a child my Fathers, Sisters Mother In-Law lived in a trailer behind my Aunts and Uncles home because she did not want to go to a Nursing Home. We don't put our family members in nursing homes ever. We take care of our Elders.

She died during the night in her bed of natural causes. She was in her 90's. When she did not call and they did not see her in her garden for a couple of days we all went to check to see if she was OK. I was there that day. She had three Cats. They had eaten most of her face and had started to eat her arms and legs.

The Cats were simply being normal Cats. They were hungry and they ate whatever meat was available. Since we were all Farm and Ranch people, the cats were not even killed. They ended up on another persons Farm. Farmers and Ranchers understand nature and are a part of it. Only city folks live in fantasy worlds where they demand silliness like the topic of this thread.

Part of the problem is that people are raised in Sardine Cans in filthy over-crowded cities and they have lost touch with what natural is. They live in fantasy worlds were their meat comes from factories and their vegetables grow on store shelves. I was raised on Farms and Ranches and know what nature and natural are.

If society ever collapses, I live; the city folks die. I have food, the city folks starve. I hate having to live in the city I'm in now. Cities are horrible places full of gangs and crazed activists from privileged families. I'm not sure which is worse the spoiled rich people in Greenpeace, The Sierra Club and PETA or the Gangs who run around killing and stealing. I'm counting the days until I retire to a decent place in the country were these people are not tolerated and crazy people are sent to psychiatrists for help.

Like the Dolphins and other animals, I know what my natural diet is and how to obtain the food I need without help from anyone else. I know how to hunt, fish and how to grow crops from seed. I understand my environment and know how to find food easily.

Dolphins don't need special rights. To even suggest that is the product of people who are simply not right in the head. People who deny their own species and deny what their natural diet is.

Ask me to protest against killing whales to make make-up and lotions and I'm ready to go. Suggest prosecuting Fisherman for the Dolphins that are accidentally killed and I'll gladly refer the person to a psychiatrist to see if they are just nuts, trolls or are scamming money somehow.

What bothers me the most is I've never met an activist in the animal rights realm that was not from a privileged family and that has ever worked for a living. I think they get into this because they are privileged. Their whole lives, everything is handed to them. After they finally decide to leave their Ivy League Schools with their pocket full of degrees, the have nothing better to do than screw with other peoples lives.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Doglord

 

The best thing about Dolphins is the way they taste.

And a Great White would probably say the same about you.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by randyvs]

haha i don't think so... Humans are nothing but bone, 220 right? We are the nastiest creature on the planet to try to consume next to monkeys, or some very hairy mammals...

Great Whites like animals with lots of blubber/meat on them...

Not a MAW full of mouth shattering bones like Dolphin eater has.

reply to post by Algebra


Sorry not true. Parrots use that ability in the wild and so do other birds like the Crow Family.

I have a Raven who comes back every year and hangs out here near my offices. It mimics all kinds of bird calls very well. It does a great pigeon. The first year it showed up I kept looking around for a pigeon. It also does a Chick-a-Dee, a Mocking Bird and others. Nobody taught it to do that. It is wild.

I do agree, after reading about Parrots like the famous African Grey that died a while ago, they can communicate and understand words and sentences. I don't know why that is surprising though. All animals communicate between themselves. I fail to see what that has to do with animals eating their natural diets and acting normally for their species. Nature is brutal and no amount of activism by irrational people will make nature change. It's the activists that are unnatural, not the fisherman trying to provide our natural diet to us.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by Mythtified

 

its so sad what people do to animals, and all because they think they are superior or more entitled than animals. Why? Becuz the bible says so? that is a lie. humans are no more entitled to life and space on this planet than any other animal, and its about time we started respecting other animals we share it with AS EQUALS and as having RIGHTS too. just like TREES should have rights. and all nature, since all is equal.

of course dolphins are intelligent.
octopus also should have rights and squid.
as should pigs, on the basis of intelligence,
and all sorts of monkeys and apes,
and dogs and cats,
and beavers,
and wolves,
and many other creatures,
including elephants, that demonstrate great intelligence.

actually crows are known to be more advanced tool users probably than chimps.
why dont crows have rights?
its known that parrots can do maths and talk,
but birds have no rights.

humanity frustrates me.

because you have to fight for your rights!
Show a group of Monkeys organize and become a force to be reckoned with and then there would have to be a compromise... Since monkey can't form an army and conquer they stay in the trees...

Dolphins can't disable ships and hold the crew hostage so they stay at the mercy of humans.

You see we respect the more powerful individual or equally or more powerful society...

no power no respect...

Hey has anyone else seen the new clip about dolphins jumping out of the water to save a cargo boat? Pirates were headed for them and suddenly thousands of dophins appeared all jumping out out of the water. They caused enough of a disturbance to the pirates so they retreated. It was pretty cool one of those things that kind of gives you chills down your spine.

I never gave a f&@k what scientists say!

Originally posted by oneclickaway
reply to post by henriquefd

 

So, you see, it´s not really the same as just creating a law to protect animals, because animals dont have the same level of rights as persons.

And nor should they, unless they are willing to stand up in court and give evidence, pay taxes, speak, drive themselevs to court and stop splashing about when the judge is talking to them...sigh
So you think having people on death row for killing dolphins would be a good idea....how about mistaken identity?

No, that´s for the Human Persons. Dolphins are not humans. The scientists want them to be treated as non-human persons. Like I said, even if it sounds like the most stupid idea in the world, if dolphins end up being treated by law as non-human persons the punishment for killing them could be greater than if they were treated as just an animal.

You are still avoiding that hypothesis just because to you it sounds stupid. Well, mankind never let something so trivial as stupidity to stop them to do what they want to do.

Now, if you pay attention you will see I am not giving my personal opinion about the validity of treating them as non-human persons. I'm not in favor or against it. I am just saying I think I understand where the scientists are coming from and what they intend with that. And I began that by telling you that a person is not necessarily understood as a human being. You can deny it all you want, but it would be nothing but your own denial to the matter and won´t change it a bit.


[edit on 5-1-2010 by henriquefd]

reply to post by Mythtified


Well, any creature that masturbates for the sheer fun of it (true scientific fact here folks) should just automatically be granted citizenship.
Just don't let them go swimming in public pools...

reply to post by endisnighe


Saying 'man and WIFE' like that shows that you obviously still view women as being possessions held by the men. Men are always men, but women are wives, eh?

Sounds like just another way to clamp down and strangle the fishermen who make a living from the sea.

Not that I want to kill dolphins or see them harmed in any way, but seeing as I am living in a fishing community and watch how rules and hard regulations have alomst killed out the salmon and halibut fishermen, I can't help but wonder if this is not just another way to try to control the fishing industry?

BTW, I only eat tuna marked "dolphin safe", but I think most if not all cans of tuna now carry that lable. (which was put in place to help stop the slaughter of dolphins already)

I think they're using "person" in the eggheady, academic sense. Meaning a being who has legal rights. That opens all kinds of legal problems. Are they considered mentally disabled? Physically disabled, because they don't have legs and hands? Are their young considered minors? Can they vote? Can they break the law and go to jail? Can they be drafted? Do they have access to emergency services?

Originally posted by Doglord
The best thing about Dolphins is the way they taste.

You mean mahi-mahi (Dolphin fish), I assume.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Actually , dolphins are better than humans.
I read somewhere that during the cold war, the US and the USSR, tried to train dolphins to kill swimmers but they gave up after finding out that dolphins refuse to obey after witnessing the pain they caused.

Cute story, but I am afraid that I have a difficult time believing it. Sounds like bleeding heart, PETA, new ager, “dolphins are our brothers”, crap’o’la to me. Now I love dolphins as much as the next guy, but…

Dolphins are highly aggressive wild animals, and they have no issue with inflicting pain on other dolphins or any other creature. Being here in Florida, and being a diver, I have seen the back areas of a couple attractions that house dolphins. I have seen first hand where smaller dolphins have to be separated from larger ones because they are tag team bullied to the point of serious injury.

Some aquariums, which I have dove, will happily drop you into a tank filled with 10-15 foot sharks, but they will not allow you to go into, or even near, dolphin pens due to the danger involved. Dolphins have intentionally snagged loose gear dangling from divers, and kept them pinned to the sides of their pens or at the bottom of the tank. Dolphins have breached and landed on swimmers, run into them at high speed, raked them with their teeth, slammed them into obstacles, and generally played with swimmers/divers to the point of extreme injury. Attractions that allow people to interact with dolphins are done in very shallow water (to keep them from picking up speed) with a trainer per group of one or two guests. Dolphin trainers have a fairly high injury rate.
From some experts in the field:

"Dolphins have not been domesticated. They are wild animals, even if they are in captivity and have been trained to be around people. Dolphins are large, powerful animals that can inflict serious harm on people… There's this misconception that [dolphins are] friendly; that they're Flipper; that they want to play with people." – Trevor Spradlin, National Marine Fisheries Service

"Dolphins can be aggressive, especially if they don't want you in their tank… They are so strong and so fast; they might want to send you a mild message and you could get hurt." – Dr. Lori Marino, Marine Biologist, Emory University

This sounds both benevolent and like a sign of high intelligence, eh?

Women and children are most often the targets for aggressive dolphin behaviors.

The supposed incidents of divers or swimmers being saved by dolphins are speculative at best. Many times humans think that the dolphins are rescuing them, when in fact, they are following their instincts to save themselves, or a member of their pod, and in doing so they inadvertently aid the human as well. Many of these stories can go either way, its hard to prove that the dolphins were acting in the interest of a human, simply because they can be even more dangerous at times to humans themselves.

Do not let the shape of a dolphins mouth fool you into thinking they are intelligent, benevolent, brothers from the deep, they are not! They are wild, aggressive, fast, and exceptionally strong animals. IMHO, I have never seen anything to make me believe that they are more intelligent then most of our domesticated animals, and they are generally far less human friendly.

reply to post by Discordian Queen


Oh jeez, have you ever been to a wedding?

I was speaking of marriage.

I cannot even remember how I put it.

Woman and man. Feel better, I put the Woman first and did not capitalize the man.

Have I paid enough penance?

More than likely it was a Freudian slip, I was thinking marriage and said man and wife.

WoW. Okay. Nuff said.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Do not insult dolphins by calling them "non-human persons".

They are dolphins! They are great in their own right!

Human beings are quite crap, do not drag animals down to that level - and stop calling yourselves scientists is you say that!