Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

All "persons" are human by definition so to say we should treat dolphins like "non-human persons" is stupid imo and does nothing to help these beautiful creatures.

Damn grant-grabbing scientists, how much did it cost to come to an illogical conclusion like this?

Originally posted by randyvs

And a Great White would probably say the same about you.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by randyvs]

Possibly, But then I would say the same thing about a great white, Especially grilled with some Mojo sauce.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Are you being sarcastic or should i add you to my 'foe' list?

No sarcasm, just a fact. Dolphin tastes even better than whale if you cook it right. Its much leaner.

Originally posted by December_Rain


Don't feed trolls like him.
second line.

Even trolls gotta eat.

Originally posted by nixie_nox


Wow. How original. You come up with that all by yourself?

Nope, Thai fisherman I knew Introduced me to dolphin meat.

Originally posted by Sky watcher

Your confusing the fish from the Porpoise.

No, I know the difference between Mahi Mahi, and a Dolphin. I regularly go trawling for Mahi Mahi and Kingfish in the Miami Baywhenim in the states. Mahi looks nothing like Dolphins. I have eaten both types of Dolphins, and while Mahi tastes better blackened, both taste good on a grill.

Originally posted by survivor


yes it's great to be a highly advanced consciouseness such as a human being

Its certainly great to be at the top of the food chain.

intelligence dictates how forms are to be treated? so, the more of what i think of myself i find in another the more exalted the other is that i found similarity in?

i wonder how dolphin meat tastes, is that a cannibalistic thought?

Yes, they should be treated as we would humans. I feel the same about octopuses. Once I was shot by a "beam" of energy by some dolphins, it felt like an orgasm but no ejaculation. I know this sounds insane so I won't go into detail.

reply to post by Gorman91


That's very interesting, I had no idea elephants were active in clearing water sources for themselves.

Your idea on making humanoid robots to connect these animals too is very intriguing, probably a lot more feasible than mastering genetics and being able to grow new limbs for them. I haven't seen the movie yet but I think the movie Avatar uses a similar idea for a paralyzed man.

reply to post by Doglord


If you believed dolphins to be self aware like humans would you still be ok with killing and eating them? If you would be that pretty much makes you ok with murder, in other words you'd find it ok to murder other species even if they are as aware as humans simply because they aren't human.

With brains the same size as humans I think it is arrogant to think dolphins are not self aware, sapient, like humans are.

P.S. Are you japanese?

i don't know why people are going to crazy over the other animals of the world when they obviously do not exhibit self awareness like the dolphin species does. it's more a matter of the food chain and the debate to dominance in existence. i personally believe that the smaller and less personal animals were placed here on this earth (or evolved for those who don't hold this view) for us to consume or utilize to survive.. such as these animals have the same reactions towards other species themselves.

you can see some anomalies amongst the animal kingdom where certain creatures will respect one another, and i believe we have the choice to do the same... and if ANY other species on earth deserves an almost "equivalent" status it would be the dolphins. go ahead and indulge yourself with some research on their processes and habits and you will most likely agree.

we have animals rights for most of the lesser creatures of the world anyways; most of the human species respects many animals in a way or another... but i won't cry if a crow gets stepped on by another individual because they merely exist to exist, whereas we exist for what we choose in our perception and reality. these dolphins i agree are a close second to our processes so why not shed the light to everyone so we might be able to interact in a higher and more respectful way

Originally posted by daveinok
reply to post by Jezus

 

Apparently sarcasm is lost on you. My point was that the idea that every living thing should be granted "rights" is just plain silly. That being said, I still think my phone is smarter than most animals.

The idea that living things shouldn't be granted rights is just plain evil.

If you really can't tell the difference between a living creature and a synthetic toy then I can't help you...

Originally posted by nerbot
All "persons" are human by definition so to say we should treat dolphins like "non-human persons" is stupid imo and does nothing to help these beautiful creatures.

Damn grant-grabbing scientists, how much did it cost to come to an illogical conclusion like this?

Not exactly true. To borrow from the infamous wikipedia:

"A person is a legal concept both permitting rights to and imposing duties on one by law"

For example, a Legal Person is the same as a Corporation. A Corporation is not a Human Being.

In Theology:

"A Human Being and Person are not the same thing. A Human Being is the living soul embodied in the body of a man(woman) whereas Person is a legal concept meaning where rights and attached to a persona or mask."

That way, what the scientists mean is that, by creating a new variety of the concept of person in the Law, they can guarantee some rights for the dolphins, to protect them and punish those who harm them.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
reply to post by Phlynx

 

So just because they smile all the time they are "intelligent"... I should start smiling more by that logic.

Making comments like that, I wouldn't open my mouth at all

reply to post by henriquefd

"A person is a legal concept both permitting rights to and imposing duties on one by law"

For example, a Legal Person is the same as a Corporation. A Corporation is not a Human Being.

Yeah well, a ‘legal person is the same as a corporation’ NOT A damn dolphin, snake, armadillo or any other creature of the natural world. A ‘corporation’ is made up of humans not dolphins, so one can see the vague logic in the term.
And if the definition involves imposing duties on dolphins as well as permitting rights…what shall we impose…no jay walking…force them to do community service serving fish fingers twice a week?

That way, what the scientists mean is that, by creating a new variety of the concept of person in the Law, they can guarantee some rights for the dolphins, to protect them and punish those who harm them.

They don’t need to redefine ‘person’ they just need to get a law passed.
Why….why in God’s name would one wish to confuse the understanding of the English language by calling dolphins ‘persons’????? WHY? All they have to do is make it a criminal act to kill dolphins. But no….scientists just have to talk errant nonsense and come up with stupidity to justify what must be one of the most useless research subjects going. They must be related to the idiots who made up global warming.
Protect dolphins yes, of course…plus all other animals.
Call them persons…No, get a grip scientists. More intelligence than sense…and even that is debatable.

I would have to disagree about dolphins being the second most intelligent animal. Personally I believe killer whales are more intelligent than dolphins and definitely a lot more creative & cunning when it comes to catching their prey. Then again killer whales are classed as being part of the dolphin family.

Orcas hunting dolphins


[edit on 5-1-2010 by kindred]

reply to post by oneclickaway


You have all the right in the world to find it idiotic to call dolphins "non-human persons", but I disagree that a protective law would have the same effect as if the dolphins were treated as "non-human persons".

I am no lawyer but I will risk a guess. Lets just suppose the scientific community manage to pass that law and now dolphins are treated as non-human persons(as idiotically as that may sound to you).

What happens if someone kills a dolphin? Is that the same as killing a dog? Maybe it would be considered a MURDER. It is not a murder if you kill someone´s dog. It is a murder if you kill a person. If a dolphin suddenly becomes a non-human person, is it POSSIBLE that the law could treat killing dolphins as murder? I THINK it could be possible.

So, you see, it´s not really the same as just creating a law to protect animals, because animals dont have the same level of rights as persons.

Originally posted by Bobbox1980


If you believed dolphins to be self aware like humans would you still be ok with killing and eating them?

Yep, although its a moot point since I don't believe they are.

If you would be that pretty much makes you ok with murder, in other words you'd find it ok to murder other species even if they are as aware as humans simply because they aren't human.

yep.

With brains the same size as humans I think it is arrogant to think dolphins are not self aware, sapient, like humans are.

Dont care.

P.S. Are you japanese?

Nopw, born and bred in America.

wow ats gets dumb sometimes...

I really don't at all believe we shld protect other species as intensely as we do not that some areas can't be terraformed like deserts at the expense of some... i.e. I don't believe scorpions matter much...

Rather... I expect mankind to survive in tandem with a few hundred species...

1: The ones that live off us well, various birds, rodents and even other creatures like raccoons that do good so long as we leave even some wildlife about...

2: the ones we live off of, or live with dogs, horses, cats, cows chickens etc...

3: the one's it goes beyond human to kill, that we would preserve, higher mammals like Bears or Elephants and of Course Dolphins that we would leave enough space and respect for either because of intelligence or simply being stunning creatures...

Dog however assures us...

Not all of us a re human in enough to even leave a dolphin alone...

Thanks dude...

who are these "scientists" I keep reading about? lol

that's like saying: "priests say you should believe in god".

Is the term "scientist" merely being used to bring gravity to a subject?

I mean, a person can be a scientist all their life and be really crappy at it, get nowhere, publish nothing and then because they are a scientist, they are given credibility on that point alone.

A meaningful thing would be to name a name, state a field of practice and then state the conviction drawn from the study.

It is so much better than : "scientists say this or that".

Originally posted by djusdjus
who are these "scientists" I keep reading about? lol

Obviously, you are invited to check them out for yourself:

Marino and Reiss will present their findings at a conference in San Diego, California, next month, concluding that the new evidence about dolphin intelligence makes it morally repugnant to mistreat them.
Thomas White, professor of ethics at Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, who has written a series of academic studies suggesting dolphins should have rights, will speak at the same conference.

reply to post by henriquefd

So, you see, it´s not really the same as just creating a law to protect animals, because animals dont have the same level of rights as persons.

And nor should they, unless they are willing to stand up in court and give evidence, pay taxes, speak, drive themselevs to court and stop splashing about when the judge is talking to them...sigh
So you think having people on death row for killing dolphins would be a good idea....how about mistaken identity?

reply to post by oneclickaway


So by your logic people with mental development problems should be treated like animals? Nice person!

reply to post by davesidious

So by your logic people with mental development problems should be treated like animals? Nice person!

Umm, no, you are on your own with that thought. That is by your logic and I am not sure how you reached that conclusion...I am off to ask a dolphin...I might get more sense out of one....