Man, Monkey or Both?

In the spirit of a couple of posters on page 1...





[edit on 26-1-2010 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Lasheic


thinking the same thing! lol! thanks for the laugh.

reply to post by 100Grand


Those pages are updated regularly as new information appears.

Your weak point does not mean that speciation has not been observed in the lab, which it has, on many occasions. Not to mention animal husbandry that has created new domesticated species.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by 100Grand

 

Those pages are updated regularly as new information appears.

Your weak point does not mean that speciation has not been observed in the lab, which it has, on many occasions. Not to mention animal husbandry that has created new domesticated species.

Keep putting words in my mouth please! I didn't say that. What I said was you put your trust in all these scientists whose opinions continually change.

Had an interesting experience last night, that had me reflecting on a lot of what has been shared/discussed thus far here.

The wife and i took advantage of the real estate crash and bought our first home on the southside of the city. Over all it's a rough neighborhood that has had a long history of economic hardships, lots of vacant lots and churches scattered through out, as reminders. So with my intent/desire to be a good neighbor and do my part in the community i went to my first townhall meeting, held at an african-american sorority headquarters building. So there i was, sitting back watching the room fill with my monkey goggles on, just observing how much we look and act like monkeys... and the alderman walks up to the podium and starts a prayer... which almost everyone in the room hung their heads and said in unison afterwards 'ahmen'... then he went directly into neighborhood business as if nothing was said/done out of the ordinary. It was very searreal and yet seemed 'right as rain'. After i got over the initial shock and awe, the more i thought about it the more it made perfect sense, that with all that these people had been through in their struggle to stay a float and keep their loved ones out of trouble... it was the church-goers who were most active and would naturally elect one of their own from the flock.

I sensed the guy genuinely cared about the people in his ward and it seemed that the feeling was mutual among all who attend. I must have been the first white agnostic monkey in attendance in their history... which as much as i looked and felt out of place there, no one ever said or did anything to make me feel such.

I think it's paramount that church and state be maintained separate, though for some odd reason i didn't really mind this minor trespass. The prayer was inclusive not exclusive, made me feel as if they saw everyone there as equals and in the same boat together trying to maintain a common mutually beneficial course.

You never see anything like this on the northside, which is predominantly white and yuppified... which got me thinking, when we are either in the foxhole or near the edge we find the concept of god essential to maintain our ability to function and keep focus. It's a way of pacifying our negative emotions so we can keep our head above water.

I also see a parallel here with many of these surviver-type reality tv-shows, everyone is getting along and having fun, but with each progressive elimination the stakes get higher and higher... and relations turn ugly and uglier. It's as if an environment of scarcity breeds a society that embraces god/bible to cope with stress and to foster relationships versus those who grow/live in an environment of abundance, security and independence, such ideas/stories are seen for what they are... fairy tales... and therefore are more inclined to see facts clearly... much like we are attempting to do here... looking at who we are in relationship to the web of life and the world as a whole.

Science gives us all the most sufficient answers, but if we are too busy with addressing basic survival needs, science gives no easy comfort for the pain, but faith in a superman does.

That's a really cool experience. I must say, science does give a ton of answers, and I know first hand how hard it is to put faith in something like God. I spent 22 years not believing, I had great girlfriend and family who tried to get me to become a believer but I just wasn't buying it, and it eventually broke us apart. I believe that God has a plan for everyone, his timing is perfect in every way. If you desire to fond God, ans really look, he will help you to find him. For those who reject him, and do not wish to believe in him, he probably won't do much to help you there. Like my ex and her family, they didn't force it on me, but every question I asked, they were glad to answer, even if I came back with some smart ass remark. I eventually found God, or at least he brought me to him, and I can honestly say, I have 100% faith in him.

reply to post by 100Grand


That's called science. It's a process of learning. You clearly don't understand it.

reply to post by 100Grand


I don't interpret this experience i had as god's way of reaching out to me, nor do i think you should assume that your experience with your ex was the same. I shared the story to help shed some light on how we loose sight of reality... that when reality is too hard to bare, many of us turn to ways of numbing the pain. So when i drive through the neighborhood to and from, when i go by a church, liquor store and drug dealer on the corner... these are the enterprises that deliver 'a way out'... a means of escape from reality.

In essence god is a drug... that fogs our view of reality, which in turn helps us deal with it's cruelties. Since the purpose of science is to know reality and religion's purpose is to know a...

invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. ..

(from george carlin's rant on religion www.rense.com...)

So as you can see, this state of mind/rational gets in the way of a believer acknowledging any fact that challenges their vision of the divine, to the point that they willingly hand all their assets to god; soul, brain, money and all... for god always knows better. So however much spin you apply to this sliver of awareness... nothing will ever change the fact that man is a primate, that makes up stories to help him cope with the absurdities of life.

For clarity sake, let me state once again... what i find to be the key insight gained from my observations of my new neighborhood thus far is this... there are many large spans of wasteland in this country, that in many ways mirrors conditions of a third world country... and out of such poverty and devastation, there is born a desire to self destruct, the way to being saved is few... and they all share a common quality... the abandonment of reality.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

Clearly you don't understand God at all. Since he sent Jesus to die for our sins, as long as we accept this gift, we can do any anything we want under the son, and still have a place in heaven. However, once you accept the gift, you are very unlikely to do anything you want. After we truly accept the fact that Jesus died for our sins, then the holy spirit comes into our body and fills the void that so many of us feel most of our lives, and do whatever it takes to fill it in. I have definitely felt this taken place in my own body. Any time we do something or say something "unGodly" the hold spirit lets us know. He chastises us. We feel guilty. That is how we know God loves us, if we didn't feel guilty for any of the sins we commit in our life, we are not yet ready to be blessed with God's love.

As for the money issue, 10% is not much at all, if we can donate 10% to God, or in other words, to churches, or other ministries to get the word to other people, God will bless us will more than we can fathom. The money isn't used for bad, Governments don't give money to the church, so how are they supposed to keep preaching the word. The people donate. My church doesn't even ask you to donate, they put it in God's hands, and most of the people donate anyway. They barely make rent/electirc etc, every month....just barely.

reply to post by 100Grand


You forgot to prefix that entire rant with "Apparently", as, unfortunately, that was merely conjecture.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by 100Grand

 

You forgot to prefix that entire rant with "Apparently", as, unfortunately, that was merely conjecture.

Your right my fault

Originally posted by 100Grand

As for the money issue, 10% is not much at all, if we can donate 10% to God, or in other words, to churches, or other ministries to get the word to other people, ...

10% of their life's income to perpetuate a lie? I think i'll pass. Noting how well some of these church leaders are doing, i'm thinking 10% is just the beginning... not to mention the cost of having one's critical thinking ability lobotomized.

Now back to your proposal and mine and where they meet head to head. You say that i am the son of god, where as i say i am the son of an ape. I see no evidence to support your claim, but i see plenty of evidence to support mine. Who do you think i am more inclined to believe? Some ghost writers of a collection of contradictory fables at least a thousand years old or... thousands of modern day researchers who have devoted their lives and professional reputations to the scrutiny of peer reviewed work? Whose collective works have unlocked many of the mysteries of life, that have plagued us, literally and figuratively. If you really want to talk about 'saving lives' you need not look any further then science.

[edit on 29-1-2010 by The Blind Eye]

A perfect omniscient entity called God, divides himself into his own son, flies down to Earth and purposely gets himself crucified to act as sin-sponge because he couldn't find any other way of making people behave in a proper righteous way (which essentially gravitates around how you have sex, and what kind of objects you're not allowed to worship). Sounds reasonable enough, where's the nearest convertion center?

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Well, it's only been 10% for about as long as anyone can remember. As for the bible contradicting itself, please show me where...

reply to post by 100Grand


I don't think the mega churches and outreach ministries of John Hagee, Ted Haggard, Kenneth Hagin, Marilyn Hickey, Benny Hinn, Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, and Jim & Tammy Faye Baker had congregations contributing only 10% to keep them afloat, I sure many more gave all that they could and some even signed over their entire estates via a will.

'Contradictions' you asked? I recommend brewing yourself a full pot of coffee... it may take you awhile to soak it all in... www.bibleblunders.com...

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Jesus predicted that on his return to earth, "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven." (Mark 13:24-27) He even predicted a deadline for it to happen: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place." (Mark 13:30) The generation he was speaking to did pass away, but the sun still shines, the stars still twinkle in the night sky, and there have been no heavenly passengers riding in on the clouds. Jesus was wrong.

This whole statement is wrong. The generation he is talking about is the generation AFTER Israel becomes a state, back in 1948, Jerusalem was taken over in 1967, so in reality, it could be as long as 2068. However, things have been happening at a fast rate in the past couple of years, according to "bible Prophecy". I'm no date setter, but I think it will be 2015 when the 2nd coming takes place. 2015 is the 8th "blood moon" in human history that will take place. I also think that some time in May will be the Rapture of the Church. So time will tell.

Still looking at some of these so called "contradictions" so I'll get back with others.

These so called "contradictions" have no weight. So far I havn't seen one that remotely makes sense, and is taken out of contex, keep trying though

"For with God nothing shall be impossible." Luke 1:37

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." Judges 1:19

Originally posted by DarkSide
"For with God nothing shall be impossible." Luke 1:37

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." Judges 1:19

You are failing miserably, it was not God's intention for them to take the land from Caleb, which was called Hebron. In my version its called plains not a valley, and if you look at verse 20

"As Moses had promised, Hebron was given to Caleb, who drove from it the three sons of Anak."

Just because God was with Judah and his people, does not mean he is going to allow them land promised to someone else.

reply to post by 100Grand


Ok so you refuse to acknowledge the contradictions, much like you refuse to see that we are apes.

So maybe you could answer this one question directly...
Without jesus, we'd all be amoral bastards?
Yes or No? ...and if you choose, provide some elaboration on why.