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Boy killed by bullet 'fired three miles away'

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posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 




You truly are a nasty piece of work Traveler, regardless of how many times you hide behind your donation to the family - a most selfish act if ever I saw one after the comments you posted.


I bet the family would much prefer your emotional support than money!

You know even though they don't have any idea you are 'supporting' them, emotionally.

I guess we all give in our own way or take in our own way.

The contributions in hard information and relative information so many people to the thread are providing is a true gift all in itself!

The generous warmth of some is simply...? Touching!




posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by sotp
 


My friend the Bass player has returned.

I mentioned that I am a drummer if I recall.

The thing that always frustrates bass players about drummers is it is us who get's to set the beat!

Lets try to follow along as best one can alright.

The church, the boys parent, and the shooter are all partially responsible for the boys death.

All three parts were required to produce that outcome.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

My logic is rock solid, my reasoning is sound.



Really? There is one big hole in it actually. You have been apportioning blame throughout this thread so, as you say, lets review...




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

1. The Church was definitely built to substandard building codes structurally and was especially cheaply constructed as a church as most churches go.
2. The parents were definitely negligent in dragging a three year old child out late at night during a record cold snap and cold and flu season on perhaps the most dangerous night of the year to be out.
3. The person who fired the gun knew nothing about SAFETY either.



1. The Church is at fault for not having a bulletproof roof...

How many sane, sensible people feel that their life is in danger at a church? Whether or not you, Protoplasmic Traveller, live your life by some code based on irrational fear is not the issue. I'm pretty sure most people (even the mentally unstable) would feel pretty safe in a church, flimsy roof or not. Based on that general feeling I'm pretty sure their aren't many bulletproof churches in the world. Why should this one be built any differently? Besides which were is your evidence (other than your own eyes) that the church was built to substandard codes? Surely a building inspector would have had it condemned before now if that was the case?

2. The parents are to blame...

While you may be right about there being an increased risk that night you have already said yourself it was a "slight" potential danger. As I said beore, in a country where so many carry guns (rightly or wrongly) the potential is there for such an incident to occur at any time of the day, any time of the year. I'm sure all the boy's parents were worried about was that the child might end up with a cold or touch of flu. I'm pretty sure that's what most reasonable people would be most worried about, the potential hazard of stray bullets probably wouldn't factor into most people's decision to go out.

3. The lack of safety awareness of the person who fired the gun...

Now we come to the crux of the issue. The roof and the parents' decision to take the child would not even be points of discussion had the shooter never pulled the trigger in the first place. There, ultimately, is where the blame lies.

Can you honestly put your hand on your hand and say that boy would have been killed by anything else falling through the roof of that church? The odds of it happening are pretty small.

I suppose you'd probably still blame the parents and say the church should've had a meteorite-proof roof or something.




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Logic and common sense do have a tendency to be rejected by the overly emotional, superstitious and those who employ closed circular logic that only deals with partial equations with preselected answers aimed at deniability and a lack of responsibility.



It seems to me you have just described yourself perfectly, and your attempt to use the image of the boy and your supposed donation to gain some sort of moral high ground is beyond despicable.

* edit - sorry Pr0t0, I didn't mean you. Your name is really hard to see against your avatar!

[edit on 5/1/10 by sotp]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe

What he has done was brilliant!

Playing the TOTAL hypocrite was his way of getting you to this realization that life cannot be guaranteed safe!

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE!



No, what he has done is a disgrace. He hijacked a thread about a boy's death to make that point (if that is indeed what he was doing). That is what I have taken issue with here. If he had started a seperate thread that said something along the lines of "This shooting of a child in a Decatur church goes to show that no matter where you are, you are never truly safe" then I wouldn't have had a problem. I do however have a problem when someone behaves like an insensitive jerk just to get some attention.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Lot of flippancy and jokes in this topic.

Thoughts go out to the family. The complete randomness of this will make it even more bitter for them.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by sotp

Originally posted by endisnighe

What he has done was brilliant!

Playing the TOTAL hypocrite was his way of getting you to this realization that life cannot be guaranteed safe!

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE!



No, what he has done is a disgrace. He hijacked a thread about a boy's death to make that point (if that is indeed what he was doing). That is what I have taken issue with here. If he had started a seperate thread that said something along the lines of "This shooting of a child in a Decatur church goes to show that no matter where you are, you are never truly safe" then I wouldn't have had a problem. I do however have a problem when someone behaves like an insensitive jerk just to get some attention.



The reality is my friend you haven’t a clue as to what I am doing on the thread…in large part because of an inherent need to validate your hastily formed and then preconceived initial perceptions in regards to my motivations.

As a result you will cause your self to reject anything I tell you regarding my motivations or any thing the wiser and more astute posters will tell you regarding my motivations.

I will try to run through some of it yet again in case the wiring in the light bulb happens to connect time and time again.

1. The first entity to exploit this story was the U.K. Newspaper that published it. The story was crafted absent of many of the actual human interest and technical details to illustrate a message to the people in the U.K., that message of course was/is, guns are bad and the people of the U.K. should be thankful that they aren’t allowed to own them. This was done deliberately by the media owned by the Powers that Be to manipulate people emotionally to get them to accept and validate something that truly really is not in their own best interests.
2. The second person to exploit this story in relation to this thread was the original poster who in fact posted it for a very similar reason, to demonstrate that guns are bad, that the people in America should not have them and to validate his choice as an emasculated citizen of the U.K. to have gone along with the disarming of the populace leaving it susceptible and defenseless in the face of government tyranny.
3. The third person to exploit this story was ME who saw it for exactly what it was, a deliberate attempt to exploit tragedy to manipulate emotions towards an ulterior agenda that would not be in America’s best interest or the world’s for that matter. I did this by purposeful emotional manipulation as well, by pushing the other hot buttons that would engage people on a purely emotional level and elicit a purely emotional response. I did that for two reasons, the first to defeat the insipid planting of the story as a vehicle and platform for gun control, the second to display to people how easy it is for people to manipulate other people through emotional exploitation.

In reality I have taken rather graciously a lot of defaming attacks aimed at me even though the story is not about me.

If you could detach yourself from your emotion and ego long enough to actually objectively look at this thread it is 2 pages of honest posters sharing some information and their thoughts on the tragedy, a few posts where someone has actually done some research into the incident (most of those done by me by the way) and 10 pages of posts of people emotionally reacting in largely uncivil ways to my comments.

Now if I can do this so easily and readily imagine how easy it is for governments and medias to do this so successfully where all of a sudden the majority of people are thinking purely emotionally and purely angrily.

Rage and anger unbalances people and robs them of thought.

Importantly who often will push emotional buttons in a forum are trolls, who are in fact looking to do two things, derail threads, and get people to discredit themselves and violate terms of service agreements to effectively silence dissenting voices.

The staff actually inquired early on to me privately if I had an ulterior motive as many posters who know me well here on ATS have pointed out this seems very out of character for me and they like the staff assumed there must be some method to my madness which there always is by the way. Those who had real concerns I addressed privately so they would understand. In part that’s why the staff hasn’t intervened in the thread even though a number of posters have gone way over the line as far as terms of service and why I haven’t likewise complained to the staff in regards to those infractions.

I am illustrating a powerful lesson and points in regards to emotional manipulation. The citizens of the U.K. in fact were emotionally manipulated out of their right to bear arms by an over bearing and increasingly totalitarian government.

When I say that the church is responsible I mean to demonstrate that at some future point government in fact might choose to use emotional manipulation to in fact hold the church responsible for such things, as an excuse to outlaw it so nothing is more powerful than the State. If you think that is not possible, think again as Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Communist Red China have all succeeded in doing such things in the past, and Russia by the way was an incredibly and deeply religious nation when that came to pass.

When I say that the parents are responsible I mean to demonstrate at some future point government in fact might choose to use emotional manipulation to in fact hold parents responsible to cede all child care and rearing to the state. Don’t think for a second that this can not happen.

In fact my friend despite the entirely emotionally based opinions in regards to me on this thread, on a thread that in many ways has become all about me because of people’s propensity to think emotionally I am basically the only one who has not only researched the entire story but the only person to actually do anything for the victims family.

In reality I have a heart of gold and am extremely thoughtful and this is best evidenced by looking at my profile and noting the fact that over 200 people on ATS have selected me to be on their friends list.

The other reality that is escaping all of you if not for my controversial stance this thread would have died with 2 pages of identical knee jerk reactions and most of you would have never heard about this tragedy.

Is helping people realize and learn things through tragedy a bad thing? It is after all exploitation. That all depends on what you want them to learn and to what end, as the reality is that human beings often learn life and the universe’s most valuable lessons through tragedy.

I have nothing to be ashamed of in that regard, and the reality is that this is a Below Top Secret Story as there really is no conspiracy in the story itself.

The conspiracy lies though in how such stories are written and crafted and why and where they are sometimes published to effect public opinion.

You of course are free to imagine what ever you want in regards to my motivations and actions and to cling to them as well.

Clearly some posters are getting the message, which is also evident if you read through the thread objectively instead of emotionally without one’s own ego in mind.

Thanks!

Edit to add: I am also displaying that once most people make up their minds in regards to something based on emotion they will in fact not change their opinion regardless of facts.

This is how the war on terror is being fought. This is how the world's population is manipulated to war, poverty and blind indiference for their fellow man, and to be governed by their worst demons instead of their better angels.



[edit on 5/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The reality is my friend you haven’t a clue as to what I am doing on the thread…in large part because of an inherent need to validate your hastily formed and then preconceived initial perceptions in regards to my motivations.


Stroking of your enormous ego? Complete disregard for who you offend, or how you go about evoking responses? At first I thought you must have been attempting sarcasm, then you took up an anti-British stance - we invented sarcasm, and Americans don't grasp it very well, just a fact, and if that's what you were aiming for you missed the mark by a country mile.


1. ...the U.K. Newspaper that published it... that message of course was/is, guns are bad and the people of the U.K. should be thankful that they aren’t allowed to own them.


Coverage of Human interest stories from many countries appear in the UK press, nothing unusual here, you are presuming that we read the story as clearly you had, rather than simply a tragic event we condemned. Very thankful that guns are not allowed in the UK, ergo this kind of unnecessary trauma seldom occurs this side of the Atlantic... the negative for us...? My best interest is protecting my family, and I don't need a firearm to do that, only cowards and fools believe otherwise.



2. The second person to exploit this story... to demonstrate that guns are bad, that the people in America should not have them and to validate his choice as an emasculated citizen of the U.K. to have gone along with the disarming of the populace leaving it susceptible and defenseless in the face of government tyranny.


We never had guns, therefore we were never 'disarmed' nor emasculated. I refer to my earlier comment regarding cowards and fools.



3. The third person to exploit this story was ME


Can't fault you there, you certainly exploited this story and thread, for what purpose is still hazy.



I did this by purposeful emotional manipulation as well, by pushing the other hot buttons that would engage people on a purely emotional level and elicit a purely emotional response.


Once again, a massive fail on your part. The first emotional response you elicited was from myself this morning. Should I be ashamed of my emotions, or should I embrace the fact that I have, maintain, control and display them as and when I feel appropriate. You're a proud zombie, and that's fine, just leave the thinking to those who can think for themselves.



In reality I have taken rather graciously a lot of defaming attacks aimed at me even though the story is not about me.

Certainly isn't but you made the thread about you didn't you? Hope you're proud of this hi-jacking.



...a few posts where someone has actually done some research into the incident (most of those done by me by the way) and 10 pages of posts of people emotionally reacting in largely uncivil ways to my comments.


Ego, ego, ego. I don't need to repeat the condemnation your earlier comment's received, they speak for themselves and their justification is obvious.


Rage and anger unbalances people and robs them of thought.


And yet, there are many here who are still thinking very clearly and rationally that you are in the wrong, even after your ridiculous antagonizing continued.


Importantly who often will push emotional buttons in a forum are trolls, who are in fact looking to do two things, derail threads, and get people to discredit themselves and violate terms of service agreements to effectively silence dissenting voices.


So you admit you are a troll seeking to gain emotional responses in order to discredit people... I suggest you delete your account and start afresh with a new mindset.


The staff actually inquired early on to me privately if I had an ulterior motive as many posters who know me well here on ATS have pointed out this seems very out of character for me and they like the staff assumed there must be some method to my madness which there always is by the way. Those who had real concerns I addressed privately so they would understand. In part that’s why the staff hasn’t intervened in the thread even though a number of posters have gone way over the line as far as terms of service and why I haven’t likewise complained to the staff in regards to those infractions.


Glad you're having fun here. Shame on you. Moderators, please accept this as an official complaint against the intentions set forth by Protoplasmic Traveler over the last 24 hours.


The citizens of the U.K. in fact were emotionally manipulated out of their right to bear arms by an over bearing and increasingly totalitarian government.


Clearly you know nothing about the history of this country, or how it's inhabitants genuinely feel, without manipulation, about ownership of firearms.


on a thread that in many ways has become all about me because of people’s propensity to think emotionally I am basically the only one who has not only researched the entire story but the only person to actually do anything for the victims family.


Are you really? Who was the shooter? What materials and which contractor built the sub standard church? How much further research is necessary in a genuine freak accident? And, once again, there you go with the "me, me, me look at me I researched, you didn't, I threw money at the family, after blaming them for their loss"... truly disgusting.


In reality I have a heart of gold and am extremely thoughtful and this is best evidenced by looking at my profile and noting the fact that over 200 people on ATS have selected me to be on their friends list.


By your own admission you enjoy playing games with people and their emotions... who is to say these people weren't duped into thinking this is not your genuine personality? A manipulative, self serving, egotistical control freak? That's pretty much my impression of you based on recent experience.


The other reality that is escaping all of you if not for my controversial stance this thread would have died with 2 pages of identical knee jerk reactions and most of you would have never heard about this tragedy.


Can we accept this as official confirmation that the entire Universe now in fact revolves around YOU?? Incredible!

Mod's please explain ATS position of posters claims



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 


I recall a poster by your screen name stating that we could agree to disagree on these issues yesterday.

Amazingly emotion causes some people to not even do the things they say that they will, agree on or commit themselves too.

Another powerful lesson to be learned there, so to is the likely hood that you imagined peer pressure, scorn and ridicule would some how turn the tide to either persuade minds or enforce their silence.

This is primarily how and why government and media seek to manipulate the most emotionally prone to create herd mentalities that can tolerate no dissent based on the programming that has been emotionally instilled into them.

Actually I have interlaced some tongue and cheek humor into the story that a number of posters have picked up on friend. There is a famous regatta in England and Castle on the Themes that bears the family name. I am quite familiar with black humor.

I think one of the most amazing things is how once emotions reach that zenith that then defeats all logic that even people’s selfless acts of charity become circumspect and criticized in others minds.

The reality is that many acts of charity especially government charity are aimed at self gain and to an extent gaining the indebtedness of the recipient.

I gather by your comments you aren’t familiar with the original posters, posting habits, if you pull up his thread history you will see that every single one of them are aimed at an agenda that uses emotional manipulation and peer pressure to effect it.

I was particularly concerned that someone would attempt to do this with the tragic death of a three year old child and I hopped right on it.

Had someone else posted this story especially someone whose good intent I could be assured of I would not likely have posted on it at all. It’s a human interest story, not a conspiracy except for how the author and the op intended for it to be used.

The reality is back in the days of real journalism the story would have concluded with how people could have made donations and helped. Not one account of this story in the American or British Press includes that. Why because the media and government aren’t publishing it to help the victim or the people but to further their own agenda and aims.

The British media that published the article in the OP sought to exploit it by providing a bare minimum of information to allow readers to easily reach the desired conclusion on their part, the evil of guns.

The American Press added that the weapon was likely an AK-47 because the Government hopes to incrementally do away with the 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms incrementally by first going after assault weapons.

I am still conducting research on the incident by the way, and having lived in Earthquake Zones and Hurricane Zones where buildings are required to be built to code to withstand certain acts of nature I can tell you that there is a lot of fraud involved in that process that sometimes leads to needless deaths occurring when disaster strikes when later forensic engineering examination after the disaster discovers that buildings were purposefully not built to code requirements and kickbacks and bribes took place. That’s a very real angle and concern here friend.

You are angry, I get that you are angry, so are a lot of rock bands and citizens too. However your anger is causing you likely to do two things, one is to purposefully ignore pertinent facts, and two is to force yourself into a relative stage of denial where your emotions rule supreme even to the point where you can’t even compel yourself to abide by your own decision to agree to disagree.

The Nanny States and Totalitarian Regimes can only arise because people are incapable of mastering themselves and their own emotions.

They rule through emotional manipulation and constantly look to exploit things through emotion.

Am I a rarity and an oddity? I sure am, but I also happen to be right regardless of your propensity to accept that.

Thanks friend, we can also by the way disagree to disagree, that still won’t cause me to agree.

Thanks.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
What a tragedy, only the good die young though.

Proof positive religion will not save you! Did the gun kill the boy or his parents dragging a three year old to church?

Cause and effect.


The gun didn't kill the boy.. the person pulling the trigger, and the bullet impacting his skull, did.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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Do not begin to presume you know my emotional state, and act as if you are concerned for my well being.

Peer pressure is of no concern to me... as you previously referred to your friends list, I will refer you to mine - a veritable contrast, I'm not here to 'make friends and influence people', I'm here to learn, discuss, debate, research, share, comfort, condemn and occasionally to be heard.

I'm also aware of the use of emotional manipulation through the use of various mediums through the ages, including subliminal messaging, NLP, blackmail, racism, propaganda and so on.

I'm not angry, I'm bemused. I think logically and rationally and seldom use emotion to convey an argument, but reserve my very right to utilize emotive language where I deem appropriate.

I take it you are no psychologist. To claim you are right is preposterous, as you claim to know the inner workings of peoples emotions and how to prey on them, a falsification and something that you have apparently convinced yourself of. Who is more confused here? There is an open debate as to what triggers and fuels emotive response - a psychologist, a sociologist, a member from every religion and a quantum physicist could spend a lifetime debating this and never gain any more insight than they already had, so to presume you knew, based on text driven responses, the emotions you were attempting to manipulate is foolish, and way way way off topic.

The reason I came back to this thread after my night's sleep, and am saddened by the fact that this debate continues under this headline, was your hard line refusal to accept that you were legitimately, and now turns out admittedly, out of order. This is not a social experiment thread. This is not the place for you to vent YOUR frustration at poorly run disaster management programs, shoddy project management, falsification of documents, reasons for entering into or sustaining wars, the politics of any nation, the emotive control and/or manipulation of agenda pushers, the failings in society to be charitable or the gaping chasm between selfless charitable acts and self serving gratification.

You have, however covered all of the above. Regardless of whether or not this was with consent of the moderators, several posters have attempted to call you out from behind the charade, a call which you willfully neglected and ignored, and in doing so were deservedly pulled up.

You certainly are an oddity, unfortunately I don't think so much of a rarity. Trolls are trolls, regardless of whether they're dressed as Princes.

Until you are capable of accepting that you are not right as you so claim and are willing to continue to presume to know the feelings, motives, desires and opinions of other posters, many from different cultures, brought up with different laws, restrictions, educations, interests, methods of interaction and understandings you will continue to be met with bemusement and consider closed minded, ignorant and potentially all the previous character traits I have pointed out that you have, again self admittedly, displayed throughout your charade.

If you expect a reaction, sometimes you are met with that reaction, not because you incited it but because you deserved it and there simply is no other reasonable, logical alternative response to lunacy.

I sincerely hope that in conducting your, albeit somewhat unsavory, experiment at least one portion of your rational mind has learned that you cannot pretend to play the instigator, without in reality becoming that which you are speaking against.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 




I sincerely hope that in conducting your, albeit somewhat unsavory, experiment at least one portion of your rational mind has learned that you cannot pretend to play the instigator, without in reality becoming that which you are speaking against.


Actually I have never denied that is precisely what I am doing it. I stated it on the first page of the thread.

Sadly most people have trouble reading and digesting once their emotions come in to play.

You might want to reread your own responses in that regard.

As far as trolling you are incorrect because a troll isn't honest or straight forward about what they are instigating or why they do so in surreptitious manner without ever being straightforward as to their motives or intentions.

As I have said many times before people are free to accept what they wish and to reject what they wish.

A number of posters to the thread have in fact realized what I was doing and have even complimented me on it.

I also told staff I would cease and desist from my track or participation on the thread at their simple request.

The reality is all I am doing is pursuing alternative angles which are what a conspiracy site is all about and looking for where the true conspiracy lays.

Your reluctance to accept that, or agree with it, or even to tolerate it is neither here nor there friend.

You are certainly free to be critical, to use your own judgment and so is everyone else.

Your supposition is that everyone has rejected my contentions and assertions on this thread and that is simply not so.

It's also pretty clear that those who are opposed to my contention and assertions have chosen to make that personal instead of based on an objection to the content.

It's also clear that a certain form of mob mentality is involved with that, where people offering nothing but various forms of personal attacks are starred simply for them.

This just is part of that emotional feeding frenzy that creates mobs and makes people highly susceptible to being exploited through emotion and turned into a mindless force driven by anger.

One need not be a psychologist to understand the emotional conditions of human beings and how some people are easily susceptible to emotion.

One just needs to be observant and questioning, and look for patterns and cause and effect.
Emotions in many ways create a gauntlet of one’s own making they must run in order to reach a higher stage of critical thinking where things become obvious.

All I have done is display what’s on the other end of that gauntlet in this case by stating it for those who can’t yet perceive it as they wind their way through that maze.

These are all things that are part of a vast conspiracy that is taking place in the here and now in our life times.



"World War III will be a guerilla information war, with no division
between military and civilian participation." Marshall McLuhan


That was written by a Canadian a well regarded communications expert before the advent of the internet.

Look around you our nations have been at war for an entire decade now and broadening them.

Stories like this are being used as part of that guerilla information war to affect an outcome through them that plays into that.

That's the conspiracy friend, welcome to ATS!



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Don't insult my intelligence by welcoming me to ATS, as you can see I've been here merely weeks less than yourself.

None of your arguments validate your reasoning for hi-jacking this thread and turning it into nothing more than a personal crusade for your own agenda, which seems to be exposing the 'true conspiracy' of mass media propaganda for the purposes of brainwashing the public into sympathy, empathy or other emotional states in which we may become susceptible to accepting further controls and loss of liberties. Nonsense. So if I were to pull up articles about freak accidents occurring in past centuries would these also relate to your so called conspiracy? Sh** happens, papers report it, people like you exploit it and nobody else in this thread has been so sinister as to consider this an opportunity to play games. Admit you are in the wrong. But you cannot, because unlike many emotionally stable individuals who are certainly aware of the possibility of manipulation you have created your own bubble world where you have seemingly convinced yourself that everything is a conspiracy and everyone is out to 'get you'. This is known as paranoia, and you are displaying serious signs of an unhealthy exposure to that emotional response.

You've somehow convinced yourself that you are right in making light of serious situations, by calling everyone who feels any modicum of human emotion towards tragic events, basically emotionally susceptible retards. That IS what you're saying, isn't it. I have not misread any of your posts, and in no way whatsoever did you outline your intentions in your first post were to point this out.

So while the majority of your counterparts here at ATS are displaying perfectly natural responses to a perfectly unacceptable line of inquiry, you continue to sit on your high horse claiming that you are the guru of all that is emotional enlightenment and awareness, and all the while you continue to unravel what appears a deeply seated anxiety that you feel no one but yourself understands or that others need to be coaxed and fooled into following your way of thinking, and furthermore have the gall to suggest you have brought out the true emotion in others, by hiding your own.

You seem to expect a "Eureka!" moment from me? It's not going to happen, because as far as emotional contentment and enlightenment I'm happy with my place. I've been around the block many a time, and I am positive that as I may well learn from some of your own knowledge and perhaps life experience, you too could learn an awful lot from mine and others, but in every post since your admittance of this 'game' you have used the term, or an antonym of the term "I am right"; I don't fool myself into thinking I'm the only person who can see the truth, nor do I feel the necessity to derail threads regardless of the conspiratorial relevance in order to make a point of my insecurities, or perceived lack thereof. Perhaps you should read from an outsiders perspective, with as much if not more stability in both their emotion and reasoning, and see for yourself how truly foolish this has all turned out to look.

Being exposed as a charlatan, regardless of your intent has backed you into a corner in which you continue to repeat the same thing over and over; well I heard you the first time, and I disagreed with your methods and your logic then and no amount of repetition is changing my mind.

I'm not fooled by the media, and I'm not fooled by you, so for the last time, stop with the patronization, and admit that for whatever reason you decided to head out on this foiled venture, you went about it the wrong way, you exposed nothing but conversation topics that belong to another thread and you have no place defending your earlier comments which in turn have been met fairly and justly in exposing not only nonsensical arguments, but in exposing the true emotional problems which are rooted not outside, but within.

Until you admit to yourself that your game playing is inappropriate, the only person you're fooling is yourself, and there really is no path in your reasoning to enlightening anybody except yourself when you can finally admit to these clearly deep paranoid feelings. Perhaps you need to let go of an emotion or two every now and again. Don't bottle it all up and feel you have to put on a mask in order to get your message across, speaking from the heart is in no way detrimental; creating a masquerade to make a potentially valid point, is however.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by Pr0t0
 





Being exposed as a charlatan, regardless of your intent has backed you into a corner in which you continue to repeat the same thing over and over; well I heard you the first time, and I disagreed with your methods and your logic then and no amount of repetition is changing my mind.


This would be the mind that you changed from agreeing to disagree?

Alright then, once again just because you don’t appreciate the method to my madness does not mean that others don’t. Read through the thread some posters clearly do.

Once again I get that you are angry.

Once again there is a conspiracy involved here a deep dark one that many people would prefer to be in denial about.

Just like many people refused to believe that the earth was round.

You would be hard pressed to disprove that conspiracy friend. Primarily because it in fact does exist.

That conspiracy is how media manipulates stories to effect outcome on behalf of governments and the corporations for the expressed purpose of creating increasingly totalitarian governments for an eventual merger into a one world government after a third and final world war that the stages are being set for now.

In large part those stages are being set through the skillful use of propaganda.

Sometimes it is necessary to fight fire with fire my friend.

I can assure you in that regard and in regard to this thread I am neither a charlatan or discredited save in the eyes of those most affected and brainwashed through the skilled use of institutionalized emotional manipulation.

Once again welcome to ATS, do you have anything related to this subject and conspiracy you wish to discuss?

Thanks.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Once again you continue to patronize me by assuming you know my emotional state, when you clearly can't take my honest word as read.

And no, I have nothing to add to your 'conspiracy' which is misplaced and has derailed a perfectly well meaning thread, which frankly should have been closed a long time ago.

Perhaps if you were to make a new thread, explaining your conspiracy in an open way in an on topic environment and not to attempt to trick other posters into proving a point for you, something you failed at here, I might review and be inclined to add my comments.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Pr0t0
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Once again you continue to patronize me by assuming you know my emotional state, when you clearly can't take my honest word as read.

And no, I have nothing to add to your 'conspiracy' which is misplaced and has derailed a perfectly well meaning thread, which frankly should have been closed a long time ago.

Perhaps if you were to make a new thread, explaining your conspiracy in an open way in an on topic environment and not to attempt to trick other posters into proving a point for you, something you failed at here, I might review and be inclined to add my comments.


Actually most things are entirely self-evident of course the person we most often lie too and attempt to fool is our selves.

Like I said, I get that you are angry.

The great news is some very sharp ATS members did get it and some even complimented me highly for those efforts.

You know the ones not overwrought with emotion, closed minds, preconceived notions and trapped with in the box thinking.

That path towards a greater understanding is one that different people ascend at different paces based on their own ability to evolve and learn to accept things through an often arduous process of emotional internalization.

Some of the tacks on the board will always be a bit sharper than others in this regard friend. I actually proved my points quite well, and at the same time shared more relevant information on the story than any other poster.

I have been on topic all the way through the thread dealing with both the incident and the conspiracy.

As I have stated each person played a part and I have demonstrated how the story was crafted and written to manipulate and why and where it was planted and in what way to do so.

You ought not to let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy friend. We all make our stands in life in the times and places we do, the question is will they be of your choosing or the forces who would manipulate you and back you into a corner and put you at a disadvantage.

My message is very real, as real as some people’s inability to grasp it.

Thanks, once again, welcome to ATS!

If you have anything on topic related to this conspiracy once again I would be delighted to discuss that with you friend.

Edit to add: As I know some posters are having a hard time seeing this. I made an opening post that 23 other members starred. This is not a small amount of people. A half dozen posters emotionally distraught over that post have repeatedly tried to use every thing from slander to veiled threats to try to get me to retract that statement. I have politely responded to each and every one of those attempts to the best of my ability…who is it that you imagine that is derailing the thread? Me or the half dozen people who have been highly critical of that post? The 23 members who starred it aren’t doing that, just the members who took exception to it.

Once again in my humble opinion its very clear emotion has impaired a few posters’ judgment. It is basically those ineffective temper tantrums that have caused the thread to wind here and there.


[edit on 5/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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a Gun vote on USA Today thread would be cool on political news board

[edit on 5-1-2010 by Donny 4 million]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I usually agree with you, Even Love your info!
But on this one, I think you harbor bitterness against G-d or Jeshua, The Creator of Everything.(The iron the bullet was made from, the man who shot the gun, the man who built the church, The child.) God gave us choices.
Do you think if the parents had been at at Mardi gras, it would've been better?



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I usually agree with you, Even Love your info!
But on this one, I think you harbor bitterness against G-d or Jeshua, The Creator of Everything.(The iron the bullet was made from, the man who shot the gun, the man who built the church, The child.) God gave us choices.
Do you think if the parents had been at at Mardi gras, it would've been better?



Mardis Gras is a very dangerous place to go! Even more so since Katrina, pick pockets, armed robbers, violent drug dealers, I suggest someplace like Hawaii or Key West.

Much safer, though I recommend staying in the tourist areas and not taking any mopeds or bicycles outside of the areas indicated on the map the vendor gives you!

Contrary to some belief the One and I get along just fine!

Though I still am a little miffed at him for that time he burned my kitchen down in 1992! What a prankster I tell you.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Like I said, I get that you are angry.


What is it? Memory loss? A desire to evoke an angry response? Or are you simply just so brain dead that you don't accept anyone elses word but your own?



Some of the tacks on the board will always be a bit sharper than others in this regard friend. I actually proved my points quite well, and at the same time shared more relevant information on the story than any other poster.


Please continue to enlighten us with your wisdom, oh sharpest tack in the board.. really, you love yourself this much? Are you so self involved that you can't accept that perhaps you went about this all wrong?



Thanks, once again, welcome to ATS!


There we have it... you're incessant childish attempts to create an emotional response by doing exactly what I have asked you not to is pure goading, you know it, you thrive on it, you are the epitome of trolling.



If you have anything on topic related to this conspiracy once again I would be delighted to discuss that with you friend.


Never was a conspiracy thread by your own admission. Create a new thread for this as previously stated.



As I know some posters are having a hard time seeing this. I made an opening post that 23 other members starred. This is not a small amount of people.


No comment. I've already proven that you are in it for the kicks and kudos. And you never fail to back up that opinion.

Calling people 'friend' does not make what you are doing any less of an attack, albeit masked with niceties, e.g. coaxing and goading; fishing for emotional response so that you can look down from the pedestal you've placed yourself upon at those who bite. Fact is I doubt you come across many people who stand up against you, because I will give you that you are clever, but also very foolish at the same time, for those who see through your games are left with a long lasting impression that you are quite possibly a very sick individual - by sick I mean attention seeking, insecure, paranoid and anxious to the point of needing to attempt to expose others weakness' for you to revel in. Don't think for one second you are in any way superior to me, or that I don't see through you.

[edit on 5/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Okay.

I've thought long and hard on what you have said.

I freely admit to not reading between the lines of your post. You said you were pushing buttons to ellicit an emotional response. Well, congratulations, 10 out 10, success achieved! I admit you successfully inflamed my emotions and perhaps clouded my ability to discern your subtle master plan.




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The first entity to exploit this story was the U.K. Newspaper that published it.



Yes in some aspects you could say they did, but all news sources do that. You see a message that I don't think is necessarily there. As I said before, we here in the UK do not fear our government in the same way you may fear your own, and I think a lot of us would view that fear as irrational. I have yet to see concrete evidence that US government actually has a plan to harm Americans. I have yet to see any evidence at all that the British government wants to harm us (well, apart from financially). I believe the vast majority of Brits would say that the restriction of guns here is a good thing. The numbers I posted earlier would say they'd be right to think so. People die needlessly all the time in America because a lot more people have access to guns. A lot of posts I have seen on ATS backing the second amendment have made a comment about wanting a weapon for when the government eventually turn on the people. It could be argued that people are dying needlessly because of a deep-seated irrational mistrust of government. It could be argued that because we in the UK do not have that fear that more of us will survive the day free of bullet wounds.
Anyway, I believe this was printed mainly as a human interest story and that is how I believe most people would take it, at face value. Is it possible that the media both here and in America try to influence public will by being creative with the truth? Absolutely. On that I agree, you can see them do it every day. However in this instance I think you are reading too much into one journalist's slant. He implies yet never directly says guns are bad so I concede he may have an agenda but I think you over-estimate the impact that his agenda will have on his readers. The vast majority (I'd honestly speculate about 99.9%) of people in the UK believe that more guns on the street would be a bad idea. I've never known of anyone advocating American style gun availability in the UK and I'd be surprised if anyone actually has done so recently. Or ever.




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The second person to exploit this story in relation to this thread was the original poster



I make no claim to know of any possible ulterior motive of the OP as I am unfamiliar with their ATS history. As you predicted I was one of those who took the piece at face value, the tragic death of a child. I am a father to a daughter myself sir, please understand that I do indeed know the eternal worry that comes with being a parent. My heart goes out to the boy's family, and when you came in and apportioned blame to them you triggered that emotional response you were looking for.




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The third person to exploit this story was ME



Here we come to what was really my bone of contention all along.

I admit I believed you had an anti-religious agenda with your post. It seems you did not, so that was my mistake. In my defence you did camouflage your true agenda well.

However...

You say you were being deliberately provocative and your true intention was to "illustrate a powerful lesson". To me your motive is irrelevant.
You chose this, a thread about the death of a child, to engage in your experiment. There are surely other threads regarding other less sensitive subjects where you could illicit a similar response for such an endeavour?

For you to exploit this particular story in this way makes you no better than the media you are trying to expose.

For you to deliberately toy with peoples' emotions in this way is worse than any standard run of the mill troll who does it just for 'teh lulz'. You did it in a thread with a subject that hits home at a primal level, to make a point you know could & should have been made elsewhere. You used us as guinea pigs for your twisted experiment, without asking our consent, seemingly all just to feed your appetite for attention. If you believe that there is something noble about what you have been doing then you are sorely mistaken.

What you have been doing is sinister. When I think about it I almost feel violated.

Look I have seen your posts around the forum and as I don't recall any of them off hand it would seem that I have never had any major problem with your views before. I could be wrong about that but I'm sure I would remember if I had so it's possible there could be many things we could agree on. I never had any prior agenda against you personally and I would have reacted in the same way had anyone posted a comment like yours.
You do indeed have a lot of friends, I can't argue with that, and I'm sure they have all seen good in you before. Perhaps you truly are the good hearted guy you claim to be and your behaviour in this thread has been nothing more than a lapse in character.

Still, I do believe it was poor moral judgment on your part to use this particular thread in this way.

I believe arrogantly manipulating fellow members in this way shows an unbelievable lack of respect for us, and that to do so is also poor moral judgment on your part.

I also believe it's poor form to suggest another member commit suicide.

That is how I feel, and I see no reason to change that.

Regarding my behaviour: I'm not certain exactly where I may have broken the T&C (if you were implying that) but if the mods have in any way taken a dim view of my posts in this thread then let them do what they will. My fate is in their hands, I will accept any punishment they deem necessary.

Possibly my longest post ever, but that is all I have left to say in this thread. I'm officially out as of now.



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