Originally posted by halfoldman
Somebody please explain why significant amounts of people believe in aliens and spirits, but only as "demons"?

I think you're starting off with an erroneous assumption... regarding "all spirits" as demons is something that I do not see very often, and I hobnob with lots of Christians, both on the Internet and in my daily routine.

The Christians that I know think of spirits and ghosts as intermediaries, in the same way we consider angels as messengers of God. Christianity is chock-full of ghosts and paranormal activity that we cannot attribute to Satan.

Dude. The Holy Ghost. It's the ghost with the most.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
[Christianity is chock-full of ghosts and paranormal activity that we cannot attribute to Satan.
Dude. The Holy Ghost. It's the ghost with the most.

Doc, my head is spinning dude like your avatar.
God says he's Spirit, not flesh. The Holy Ghost is God. (God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.) But these personalities were never dead.
Demons are created beings (maybe fallen angels?)...

But what's the basis for thinking Christians believe in ghosts? (i.e. spirits of dead people?)

Edit to change typo "God" to Ghost"

[edit on 4-1-2010 by pumpkinorange]

My grandmother (now departed) was born in the early 20th Century, and she had some pretty cut-and-fried views on UFOS and all things paranormal. She thought it was the work of Satan on Earth, because Earth is Satan's domain. She believed God gave the Earth to Satan, so that Satan could tempt Man and draw him down to Hell, which is what Satan enjoys doing.

In her view, all of these unexplainable curiosities were the work of Satan. UFOs, Bigfoot, Chupacabra, Rods, Ghosts, Poltergeists, Clairvoyants, Spirit Mediums, Ouija Boards, you friggin' name it, it was the work of the Devil.

That is old world thinking. I mean, people who divide the world into good over here and evil over there are missing a lot.

The Christians I know have a realistic view of the Heavenly hierarchy, which includes a distinct assemblage of demons, angels and archangels... Any of whom have ready access to more data regarding our existence than do mere mortals.

Nice thread. I like these discussions.

— Doc Velocity

Anything foreign in nature to their narrow minded views becomes a demon, or demonic, or satanic. Any rational, common sense, or factual view or opinion that differs in anyway whatsoever than theirs is quickly (and lazily) labeled as such. If the earth was still considered to be flat, and the earth was still thought to be in the middle of the universe, and someone today came forward and spoke the truth (which is now common knowledge), he/she would be met with the demon/satanic label. No matter how credible this individual was and how devoted the person was to discovering the genuine honest truth, this poor individual would have to face the disgusting attitude of these sick close minded individuals who would sadly label him/her under this demon/satanic classification. One day science will force their narrow minded views to evolve, and they will no longer be able to consider everything and everyone to be satanic or demonic except THEMSELVES.


EDIT: Correction of a typo.



[edit on 4-1-2010 by pplrnuts]

Originally posted by pumpkinorange
But what's the basis for thinking Christians believe in ghosts? (i.e. spirits of dead people>)

We believe that there is a transfer of information through the veil. A communication, if you will, with entities and intelligences on the other side.

Christianity is FULL of such belief.

Call it ghostly visitation if you wish, call it angelic presence, but there is evidence and precedence for Christians believing in ghosts.

Look at Christ beckoning Lazarus back from the dead. That's a stunning example of Christ interacting with the paranormal, reaching beyond the veil between Life and Death, summoning a specific consciousness (that of Lazarus) back to his corporeal body, and somehow activating the biologic processes to allow Lazarus to not only be healed but be brought back from the friggin dead.

Lazarus was dead for days. I don't know if he had been embalmed (which wouldn't be unusual in his time and place), but his corpse had already gone through whatever funerary process was appropriate. His body had been bound with linen — think mummy, maybe.

That's pretty far gone. That's a long-shot for resuscitation, wouldn't you say? Yeah. A long longshot.

But Christ came in, he was very emotional about this, and he summoned Lazarus out of the tomb. Lazarus came out, he had no choice — he had been summoned by Christ.

This is a hardcore example of a dead person's spirit (ghost) reentering the body of a Man.

And, I mean, when Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene after the Resurrection, she was talking to a ghost, was she not? Christ the Risen. Christ the Un-Dead. Christ himself was floating right through doors in good ghost tradition, right in front of the Apostles.

It's a very ghosty religion, this Christianity.

— Doc Velocity







[edit on 1/4/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by halfoldman
In the accepted Old Testament Saul encounters the dead via the "Witch of Endor". Some verses are more specific: Job 4:15, "Then a spirit passed my face; and the hair of my flesh stood up".
How, why or where does anyone get the message in the Bible that all spirits are "demons"?
Somebody please explain why significant amounts of people believe in aliens and spirits, but only as "demons"?

[edit on 3-1-2010 by halfoldman]

I think its an oversimplification.

You could say the same thing about angels. People run around thinking "angels" all look like humans. Biblically, of the heavenly beings, the Malakhim or messengers look human. The others look monstrous like the Cherubim or Seraphim. Some look really weird like light orbs (Hashmallim) and others like gimbals (Ophanim). Compare the last two to weird sightings of things in the sky.

Then you have other people who simplify fallen angels and demons into the same thing. Biblically there are different kinds of unclean spirits. The unclean part is key. Its not so much as they are evil, its that they are unclean. Something about their nature contaminates, almost like radiation. Some of these "demons" appear to be the same as some types of cryptids. One of them, the parasitical Ovoth, appears to be what most people think demons are. Like Malakhim being generic or stereotypical angels, the Ovoth are the "generic" demon. Most people have no idea about all the other kinds of "demons" and "angels".

Again its oversimplification.

Now some so called "demons", Biblically must be fallen "angels". These are your bound spirits or genius loci. They have been bound for trangressions. The scapegoat in the Bible was sent out to one, Azazel, on the Day of Atonement. For some reason people have a hard time distinguishing a bound "angel" which haunts a site, and Ovoth which acts as a parasite to a host.

Its probably oversimplification.

The dead in the Bible are said to sleep till Judgement Day. That throws out most ghost stuff, unless there is anything to restless dead. As far as I know there is no basis for it in the Bible. We are totally dependent on the Neshmat Hayyim or "Breath of Life" to live. Once it goes we sleep. I could probably come up with a hypothesis involving restless dead feeding on the "breath" of others, but there is no basis for that in the Bible.

There also is the Ruach, the vital anima or Holy Spirit. I think alot of people are confused by this and its worth a whole thread by itself.

So not all spirits are demons or unclean. Likewise I would say not all things called "aliens" are demons. Some definitely fit the description. If it lies, starts cults, gives false prophecies, and traumatises people there's a good chance its an unclean spirit or even an angel.

Which brings me to the last bit. Not all angels in the heavens are good or benevolent. Angels don't have to be fallen to be malevolent. In fact Biblically, especially in Ephesians, malevolent and dark angels do operate out of the heavens. The Powers and principalities are said to be in the heavens and the Aer, the lesser heaven beneath the Aether.


What does all of this mean? Oversimplification and even worse.....

People don't read.



[edit on 4/1/10 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by halfoldman
How, why or where does anyone get the message in the Bible that all spirits are "demons"?
Somebody please explain why significant amounts of people believe in aliens and spirits, but only as "demons"?

Spirits.. meaning the spirits of the dead were thought to be demonic so everyone would be too afraid to communicate with them. This was done so that no one could learn from them how we were being controlled and limited by our culture and beliefs.

The only good advice was to test the spirits. Today this is valid too. They are everywhere around us; many are lost, many aren't and most only desire to pass over into what does appear heavenly and so end their self-imposed hell.

Demons are simply other souls choosing a different experience to you; many are misguided, controlled and used, while others are happy to cause havoc.

Each one can teach you something of great value. Firstly, they can teach us the way through fear into clarity, and then teach us how to love them back to "health". To do otherwise would be make yourselves as they are.