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Don't shoot the messenger!

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posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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Hello fellow ATSers,

It always saddens me when I see members here posting factual info that is relevant to a particular thread, and that sheds light on a case in question, but often times leads to the poster of said info being attacked for "debunking" or "spreading disinfo".

How has this nonsensical situation arisen?

If someone spots a hoax (or misidentification), posts the relevant info to prove that something is a hoax, and stops more people from falling for a hoax, how is that a bad thing?

I've seen people on here bashing skeptics like Phage for helping to clarify the facts, and quite frankly I've had enough of this nonsense.

Without people like Phage, ATS would be swamped with hoaxes, mis-identifications, and unchecked pseudo-scientific garbage. Is that what people here really want?

What I see here on ATS, day in, day out, is people being attacked for using logic and fact.

If you can't use logic and facts, what else is there, and why is it such a surprise to believers that UFOs are not taken seriously by the mainstream when most of what we call UFOlogy today is based on assumption and pseudo-science?




posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by C.H.U.D.
 


The people that bash Phage and others like him are simply insecure.

Revealing the truth is what this is all about and those that can't handle the truth, will forever belittle and degrade those that expose it.

Disagreement is the first step towards enlightenment.

Semper



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Being skeptical of astounding claims is always a good thing.
It is something I have always known but the skeptics here on ATS have taught me many valuable lessons.

People should always strive to remain intellectually honest. This means weighing the evidence and conforming to it, regardless of how it fits with your worldview.

Without this, Science makes no advancements.

Good thread, S&F.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Honestly, it's not Phage that gets me upset, it's the Phage wanna-bees that are rude and resort to name calling that upset me. Phage is a very intelligent and respectful individual, which personally I respect. I just don't give him the praise most think is warranted....after all his just a mere human, yes?

Peace



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


People bash Phage because they hate how everyone takes his word for it, and it must be true because the infamous Phage said it..

People need to learn for themselves



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by Haydn_17
 


There is a reason people accept his word..

It is because he is a long standing, thoughtful and intuitive member that has worked a long time to gain and keep the respect of those of us that have been here for years.

It did not happen over night, nor easily.

Semper



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:52 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Mods or whoever pulls the strings could be a bit more pro-active aswell.
Many a thread is allowed to continue after the hoax or fraud has been uncovered, which is fine but it should be then moved to the HOAX forum or skunkworks.
It does seem like flags and traffic matter more sometimes.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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For that matter, don't attack the person, attack the argument.

A good example is to ask people to comment on somebody like Noam Chomsky




Btw, that's a good video.. Apologies if youtube is throttling their bandwidth too much, making it load slowly. It's worth the wait.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


But you still have to remember, he is human like everyone else.

He can make mistakes, you shouldnt just accept his word for it without doing your own research.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by hellfrozeover
 


No one said that and making things up about what people say, sure does not go a long way to support your position.



The simple fact is respect is earned.

It takes time to earn any real discerning persons respect.

Facts

Semper



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by hellfrozeover
reply to post by semperfortis
 


Oh I get it.......you have to be part of the click of the ATS for years......so all us newbies here don't deserve respect. Got it now, thanks for the clarification.


Thats unwarranted .

Respect is earned .

This site is well moderated ..... perhaps this will become more apparent to you the longer you are here .



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Haydn_17
 


On that I agree

However one can take information from a long standing member like Phage that has earned our respect and use it for a good starting point into our own research.

Semper



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I did not make anything up.....you stated he had been a member for years and earned the respect, yes? So, what did I make up? Oh yeah, one more thing....you never answered the question regarding the flags?



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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Yes, members who post relevant information often don't get enough respect. If someone provides information, which is disproving popular opinions, often a hive mentality kicks in and punishes those members. Debunkers are very important members. Their well researched information and insightful comments may kill a thread, but they help overcome ignorance. Even if those debunkers are wrong, CTs are forced to debate facts and provide reliable information.

But sadly useful debunkers are not the only kind we find on ATS. It is clear that not every debunker can write quality posts like Phage, but in my opinion numerous debunkers don't want to disprove falsehoods and teach knowledge. Their debunking is bare of hard facts. It usually just involves belittlement of people and sources, which don't follow the official story. They never provide their own sources. Threads which are attacked by these members often lose track and end in name-calling.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


I have been here for years, sir.....and have witnessed this first hand. Don't let my date mislead you.



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by hellfrozeover
 



you stated he had been a member for years and earned the respect, yes? So, what did I make up?


You made this up


so all us newbies here don't deserve respect.


A blatant made up comment


you never answered the question regarding the flags?


How could I possibly know why people flag a thread?

Semper



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


It was a implication your statement made.....you do know what that means, yes?

5 flags.....5 posts and I never flagged it???????



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by hellfrozeover
 


You made an implication that was not true...

That quite simply, reinforces my statements very nicely thank you

People can flag and not post you know

I do it all the time

Semper



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