Talk of Armed Revolution on ATS Inappropriate

reply to post by gwydionblack


And what do you think would happen if/when a revolution breaks out? Do you honestly think that it's going to be a no shots fired event where y'all show up armed on the steps of the capital and all of a sudden the government is going to just give up and say, ok, you win, we will do whatever you want?

The OKC bombing is a perfect example of what the people that spout revolution on here look to achieve. When I read these posts on here talking about armed revolution, it just reminds me of the rantings of Timothy McVeigh.

So don't get mad at me for looking to history to tell me what the future will bring, cause it's those of us that don't learn from the past that are doomed to repeat it.

Sorry to subject you to a little reality, but unfortunately that is the reality of war. Innocents do get killed, and people do suffer.

[edit on 1/3/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by WTFover

Not attempting to "trash" you, but, when you posted this, was it not intended to change the minds of others? Either the posters or the ATS staff? Not attempting to change your mind, but I do offer the above for your honest consideration

The only thing I can say to this in OPs defense is at least you've cross threaded by the best. lol

An armed revolution would do much more harm than good.

A revolutionary, deep down inside, has to realize this. Yes, you and your "brothers" may be armed and ready to overthrow our government and create a new "better" one, but at what cost? There will be just as many people who will violently uphold our government. As an ex-military man, I took an oath. An oath to defend this country against all threats, foreign and domestic. Though no longer in the service, you bet I would go head to head with revolutionaries, and by golly I know MANY more of my fellow soldiers who would do the same.

Essentially, if such a thing happened, the nation would be split in two. Not Republican and Democrat junk, I mean split VIOLENTLY. The entire infrastructure of our nation would be terminated. It would be mass chaos.

How can you revolutionaries really believe everything is going to go "picture perfect" and life will just go on all nice and dandy? Do you have any idea the destruction and death that would ensue in order to overthrow the government? You will destroy this country, and have to rebuild it from the ground up. And don't give me that "How do you think the country was started?" crap, because times are a changin' and it's not that easy anymore. It would leave whatever 'nation' is left standing extremely vulnerable. There would be no order. People would go into "primal mode" and just do whatever they needed to survive.

There are so many things wrong with a violent revolution these days that it's not even funny. It's plain crazy to see people talk about it.

sitting here observing from Australia i see worrying times ahead i pray that cool heads prevail i dont think the government is stupid enough to start a revolution or round up people because once the shooting starts it will never stop and the republic will be lost and that just the start i think it will be a great opportunity for china Russia north Korea japan and many other nations to come in as peace keepers and then to fully take America out from within this is my fear being an Australian we are natural allies and a weak America is a weak Australia and that un nerves me as our prime minister is just to cozy and in bed with china he even speaks fluent Chinese.

in my 5 cents people are to complacent and to comfortable and soon there will be forced to participate in political affairs like it or not self responsibility will come to all of us the people will seek change but it need to grow more uncomfortable to we get to a crescendo where 300 million Americans cry out change like never before only if that fails it will get messy and that will be the end for secret society's militarys politicians etc... it will be hell on earth and that should be avoided the west is faltering and the east is watch closely at what we all do

Originally posted by moonzoo7

..It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government, as well as for advancing the idea of killing the President. We are a Nation of Laws for a reason.

You don't like how the last election turned out? Become more politically active. Are all politicians inherently corrupt? Run for office and give us someone who is honest. You don't like the current administration's legislation? Draft some legislation and present that to your elected Representatives, but please stop whining and threatening violence. At least here. Say whatever you want down in your bunker or in the church parking lot...

It isn't illegal to plan to kill 80% of world's population before 2030?
Isn't it illegal to tax the world's population with carbontaxes based on lies?
Isn't it illegal how pres Bush came to power in 2001 (recounts, firing judges etc.)?
Isn't this system corrupt in your opinion?

Furtermore...
To "run"for president, you have to be related to The Royals of Europe, at least 90% of the former and current presidents is, as one can search trough genealogy..

And the best one of your part, which made me laugh (thanks for that ):
"You don't like the current administration's legislation? Draft some legislation and present that to your elected Representatives"

As if that would do the trick haha.. nicely found

Peace, Happy New Year to you all!

reply to post by moonzoo7


Well said moonzoo7. I was wondering about the conflict with not promoting groups and causes, as well.

FreeRice.com goes to the interesting sites section of BTS, but posts calling for despicable behavior go unchecked. It's disappointing to say the least.

Originally posted by rleexray Wow, lets start with you calling me a bastard.

That's a sensationalist lie. My post is in plain sight for all to see. I did not simply call you a bastard. Contextually I stated that you, as an American, are the bastard offspring of the colonizing European forefathers. Offense was not my intent. It was an anthropological correlative of how militaries such as the British Empires colonized and thereafter withdrew from the Americas. You’ve cherry picked a part of my sentence and marginalized it to make it appear subjectively offensive to you. You’ve curtailed my statement so that readers of your post might misconstrue that I’ve profanely called you a bastard. I have not. It’s sensationalist. It’s a lie.

Originally posted by rleexray Sir, I am Choctaw Indian, not European, Australian, or Asian and I believe my ancestors were here long enough so I can call this my country.

Sir, who cares about your ethnicity? It’s irrelevant. You’re still a product of the 19th century European American colonists. It’s a well known fact that Choctaw Indians virtually relinquished their indigenous identity by adopting the cultural lifestyle and technological practices of the said colonists who cocordantly are derived from European ancestry. I stand by my statement, you’re the product and figurative bastard offspring of the original European colonists. Bastard was a literal and figurative word in the English language long before it became a dreaded naughty word.

Originally posted by rleexray While the powers that be cheated many of the Natives, they had to pay for the land they wanted from my tribe and the Chickasaws, our brothers.

Surely, as such a proud Chicksaw, you’re familiar with your own history, right? The last three of nine treaties that your people signed with the U.S. were designed for deracination. I wouldn’t be so smug about the fact that your ancestors monopolized on the treaty considering that they effectively formed the framework for the Indian removal policy signed in by Jackson.

Furthermore I wouldn't be so proud of swearing my life to the leader of a country who deracinated my people and diluted their culture to ‘civilize’ them. Much of what you’re saying is pretty much contradictive.

Originally posted by rleexray As to the land itself, I guess there’s nothing like stating the obvious. Most of the land in this country is owned by private citizens, not the government or corporations, and it’s been that way since inception.

Respectfully, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Take the time to research Agenda 21. Granted, it sounds like low budget science fiction film but its corollary is imminent. It’s a U.N. program pertaining to the end to national sovereignty as you know it, the abolition of private property, the restructure of the family unit and the increased restriction of mobility and individual opportunity.
www.un.org...



[edit on 3-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

[edit on 3-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

[edit on 3-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

Originally posted by rleexray Do you really think Katrina or 9/11 would have been handled any better in your country or for that matter any country?

Of course I do! Nagin and Blanco failed to implement New Orleans evacuation plan. They sent residents to shelters without provisions of food, water, security or sanitary conditions. Nagin delayed the evacuation by 19 hours for crying out loud resulting in the deaths of hundreds.
Learn more here: en.wikipedia.org...
As for 911, I don’t recall my own government killing close to 3,000 of its own people to justify an unjust foreign occupation. How about you?

Originally posted by rleexray Who came to the aid of the Tsunami victims, the europeans or the australians or the asians? No, it was America.

That’s complete and utter hypocrisy. Have you fogotten how American rescue crews blatantly deployed preferential treatment for American citizens over British citizens during the evacuation as Katrina approached?
www.guardian.co.uk...

Have you forgotten how Australian consular services were denied admittance to the area by US federal government for the Australian tourists in New Orleans? Have you forgotten how the US also didn’t see fit to notify the Australian embassy that a missing person was sitting in one of their correctional facilities?
www.abc.net.au...

Have you forgotten how federal officials opened fire on South African tourists?
www.iol.co.za...

What bubble are you living in? You have little right to play the martyred role of the American police force when you can’t even keep tabs on your own lawn.

Originally posted by rleexray Did your country come to the aid of the Katrina victims? Hell no! No country ever comes to our aid, yet we assist you all in almost every tragedy you encounter.

What? America refused aid. Sweden, Hungary, Austria, Jordan and Britain were all REFUSED!
www.theirc.org...
Furthermore, you do realize that the Red Cross and Salvation Army are international, right? I’m not spoon-feeding you this anymore. Go research it yourself.

Originally posted by rleexray You ramble on about a food crisis, you say our economy is screwed, you liken us to Nazis. […] Nazis? Please, that was just rude.

No, I did not. That's another sensationalist lie. I likened the trajectory of the American Empire to that of the Nazi Empire. I explicitly highlighted that I was not addressing the American people. Why do you insist on misconstruing the context of what I’m actually saying? Why do you think it’s academically acceptable to ignore the following segment of post simply to suit your own argument?

(I am not saying that Americans are Nazi’s)

Originally posted by rleexray We export as much or more food than we use and our economy will recover, will yours?

The United States Department of Agriculture hasn’t adjusted their production estimates adequately to mirror the decreased production of 2009. The resulting overconsumption is guaranteed to cause a food shortage. Others will disagree with me but mark words, this year; there will be a food crisis in the United States. It’s simple arithmetic.
www.marketskeptics.com...

Originally posted by rleexray Do you have enough Patriotism to say the same about your country?

Like I said earlier, the Irish government knows better than to stage an attack similar to 911 and if they did our people wouldn’t allow it to have been swept under the rug. You’re not in a position to lecture anyone on the concept patriotism.

Originally posted by rleexray From what I see you can't even speak intellectually for yourself.

You’ve got the facts obscured on your ancestry, you have no idea what Agenda 21 is, you’ve stated a multitude of incorrect facts on Hurricane Katrina and the food market and yet you have the audacity to tell me that I don’t speak intellectually. That's just dandy.

I'd think those people were plants, to see who might respond.

It wouldn't work anyway - even if you did have some sort of rebellion or even if Obama was in a bad accident or something, nothing would change. It started way before him and it would continue long after he's gone. If there was a US rebellion well that's the US, this seems to be a powerplay at the global level, so really, lol, what would change except a bunch of patriot chest beaters would go to prison and get the label of terrorist pinned on them?

No, real action has to be defined more carefully anyway. Who is the enemy? It is hard to say that you love the constitution and then you attack the govt. officials we elected. I mean - that's just silly, IMO.

We've got to be careful with our election process though, that's for sure, and we've got to be careful especially with our local officials, and further than that....we've got to think about this economic thing. If it is the banks killing us, aren't they a business? File bankrupt if you can and need to, keep your money out of the big ones and invest in credit unions, pay off your bills early. Don't buy Chinese goods, ect. Help out your neighbors, write your congressmen, support a 3rd party!

Do buy your guns and ammo, and what you need to survive.

If chaos does come, it will always come with chance for creation of something wonderful.

You don't have freedom of speech at ATS, we never did.

Anyone calling for armed revolution is always an adolescent idiot. I, and the moderators, can give examples of idiotic members literally suggesting we should assassinate NWO members. It is not acceptable to allow paranoid views to be taken to dangerous levels.

I don't like the prospect of any of the ATS staff having to explain to the media why a member called for armed rebellion then taking action into their own hands...

ATS owners have legal and moral obligations, whether you like it or not. So does the membership - we all agreed to T&C's.



[edit on 3-1-2010 by infinite]

reply to post by infinite


That is exactly right infinite. What happens when someone with self control issues posts on here about how they want to blow this up or shoot that person, then goes out and actually does it?

The MSM would scour this site for that person's posts, find that many people agreed with them, it would be a massive PR nightmare for the owners here to have to explain.

ATS is an alternative website, not an extremist website.

While I do think that it's quite appropriate for members to expose what is going on in the world. It's even appropriate to speculate on what the governments may be doing. It's entirely inappropriate, and dangerous to actively plan out an armed rebellion on this site.

Originally posted by moonzoo7
It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government, as well as for advancing the idea of killing the President. We are a Nation of Laws for a reason.

...

I'm curious about how the Mods and even SkepticOverlord feel about what I've said. Please feel free to jump in.

You wanted to know how some of us feel, and so I post. Let it be forever known that this is my own opinion, and should in NO way be misconstrued as that of the site, or it's owners/staff.

You say that we cannot call on others to have an armed overthrow of our government, yet I assume that you openly support the foundations of this great nation, correct? This nation was founded by men that had a belief that every man should be free to choose their own fate, and not have it dictated to them by someone else. We look to the documents that these brave souls wrote as a guide to run this very nation, and we all laud them loudly, yet we forget what they really mean.

As an example, let me take a moment to share a bit of The Declaration of Independence with you, if I may:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

This excerpt directly precedes the list of the things the king had done to the colonies, which created the situation that resulted in the document being written. When one reads this, they can't help but feel the raw passion being expressed in the words of these men, even though we know what followed those words.

The point here is that, regardless of what we might like, there is a creeping tyranny upon the US right now, and we have very few outlets left, as a citizenry, to express our opinions and concerns. I, for one, am glad that ATS still supports the virtues that the Founding Ancestors shared amongst themselves, and would be terribly saddened should anything change.

Now, this should NOT be misconstrued as a defacto agreement to this idea that an armed revolution is a good idea; merely that I think that it's a wise idea NOT to squelch that which makes this country so great, the People. What do you think will happen when the People have no outlets left to go to for a Redress of Grievances? They'll act. It's a simple fact of human nature that when someone is pushed into a corner far enough, at some point they'll lash out.

It is my greatest fear that squelching that which the founders of this nation gave us the soveriegn right to do will result in the People becoming the despots that the Founders spoke of in the Declaration of Independence.

At that point, what options are left?

TheBorg

Addendum:

It should be furthermore noted and clarified that I do not support open suggestions of insurrection or sedition, but I DO advocate the discussion of such topics in a constructive and sincere manner. Denying the citizens of ANY nation the right to express their feelings on an issue, and what they "think should be done about it" is not a good idea.

I also understand that ATS has legal issues that they have to abide by, and so it should be moderated properly, but I am one that thinks that there is room for further discussion on this topic here.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by TheBorg]

I'm getting tired of ridiculously stupid posts -and i am not one to judge usually.

Sick and tired of hearing people call stuff inappropriate.

Don't like it ignore it.. this community is for everyone, get used to it.

Just like world leaders ought to.

Wow, i dunno how i said that without doing an O'Reily.. and usually I am such a lib... I rest my case.. such baiting it is just unacceptable !

IMO, but I feel and know it to be true
Abductee

Inappropriate is a very forgiving term.

Talk of armed revolution in an open forum on the internet whereby you are known by your IP address and record set of data that belongs to you is more foolish , near sighted and downright ignorant of the technology at play than it is inappropriate.

Insurrection cannot be provoked by anonymous blathering based in fear. So I wouldn't really worry about it.

I would add that perhaps the Glenn beck fans could be quashed a little with bettere quality threads than "I don't care what you tell me, there's death panels and Obama IS a Kenyan" etc etc. lol. Shutting that stuff out of the top categories would immensely help the credibility of the site and hopefully produce better developed user content.

regurgitated garbage from fox news is what is inappropriate here really.

reply to post by TheBorg


Well said, TheBorg! To further elaborate on your thoughts, let me reprint some quotes from the founding fathers from a previous post here:

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
Patrick Henry

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
George Washington

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
Noah Webster

"What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

reply to post by djusdjus


Let it forever be remembered, however, that it was dictated to us by the Founders of the US that it IS an option, albeit the last option, once ALL other avenues have been exhausted.

I fail to see what purpose talking about an armed revolution would have, other than to incite others into doing the same. It's a hot-button, divisive issue that cuts straight to the heart of what it means to be an American. The only other reason I think there could be for discussing it is in the context of tossing it around as a point of fact that if all other actions fail, we still have this to fall back on.

Personally, I find no issues with stating what should be done however, as it's not me that instructed us on what to do; it was the people that organized the original construct of this country and it's governing body.

Now, if were going to concede, and LET those at the top win, then by all means, just give up. They'll have won, and the game will be over.

They win. We lose because the People, who TRULY possess all of the power, gave it all away because they no longer care.

What a sad SAD world that would be... I pity anyone that lives in that position.

TheBorg

[edit on 3-1-2010 by TheBorg]

You'll find that most of these types are all mouth and no trousers. They generally depend on the 'lone wolf' loon.

They do create an 'encouraging' atmosphere for the loons.

What I find to be the most hilarious point of this thread-

Who have been the ones stating anything about calling to arms?

Can it be you asshats are just a bunch of Benedict Arnolds?

Oh go lay down with your masters you grovelling whiny magpies.

I find you too offensive to be even be called fellow citizens of the world.

Divide and Conquer techniques to the bitter end.

I find you people funny.

Wo was me. Those bad men are talking about freedom and calling to arms. We need to call the po po. What will be do-(running around in circles weeping) oh what can we do.

Pathetic!

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

"Efforts and courage are not enough without purpose and direction." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Nuff said?