Talk of Armed Revolution on ATS Inappropriate

reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE


Just don't step on my lawn - cause I am going to do my part too.

reply to post by moonzoo7



Star and Flag for you my brother.

An armed revolution is pointless for two reasons.

1) Unless we are defending ourselves, then we will lose. FOR SURE.

2) The 2nd Amendment was solely designed to defend ourselves against tyranny. It had nothing to do with crime nor hunting.

As a group, we need to make sure that TPTB understand that an armed revolution is the absolute last resort.
And if it comes down to that, then we will win.
Because if it comes down to that, then I don't care whether I live or die.
I only want to preserve the integrity of the Constitution for future generations, and....

I would bet that MULTITUDES of people feel the same way that I do about this situation.

As long as we still have jurisprudence available to us, which is needed to overturn this proxy Federal Government that masquerades as America, then we need to use the judicial system.
Armed revolution will not work as a preemptive strike.
We cannot win if we attack first.

Here is why

reply to post by KarlG

Where people knew their roots. Where the small-town thing worked, and everyone knew their neighbors. Where people didn't bristle at the slightest things and demanded to "revolutionize" EVERYTHING - they effected change by going right down to the grassroots, by spreading the word, by talking straight to the people in charge.

Where people knew their roots. Where the small-town thing worked, and everyone knew their neighbors. Where people didn't bristle at the slightest things and demanded to "revolutionize" EVERYTHING - they effected change by going right down to the grassroots, by spreading the word, by talking straight to the people in charge.

In my opinion, CORPORATE REVOLUTION should first occur. Because as we ALL know, governments nowadays are merely fronts - for the BUSINESSES and the BUILDINGS that finance the politicians and "influence" their decisions.

You are right on the money KarlG in my humble opinion.

Back in the 1990’s I was working for a medium sized business that was growing at a steady clip. It had 13 locations spread out over a close geographical area and it was entirely owned by one man.

After working for the company for a few years as a mid level manager at one of its stores they decided to implement mandatory drug testing.

I felt it was an invasion of my constitutional right to privacy. I told the store’s general manager that I would not participate and he was extremely worried that I wouldn’t as he placed a premium on the work I did for the company.

He appealed to the owner again and again as the testing date drew near to exempt me from it. I was after all a model employee one who had been promoted several times, whose work ethic was admired and my attendance and punctuality exemplary. If I was on drugs, everyone should have been based on my output and efficiency and demeanor and accomplishments. It made no sense to impinge on my dignity in that manner.

The owner of the company refused to relinquish but as a personal favor and concession to the store’s general manager offered to come out to our location and speak to me himself regarding his motivations.

He said to me, when he started out in the business he personally knew everyone that worked for him and felt comfortable with trusting those people he knew with his money and property and to look after his best interests.

He said now that I have hundreds of people working for me in dozens of locations I can’t personally know everyone any more and I have to protect myself.

I looked at him and honestly said, so your greed for more comes at the expense of my dignity?

The truth was in reality is that his insurance company was offering him a big discount if everyone that worked for him was drug tested. Many of us had company vehicles and access to portions of company funds.

So to save a few dollars and pad his bottom line it was all too easy to strip people of dignity.

When the testing day arrived I refused to take the test, and I was suspended without pay.

A week later after first offering to double my salary, and then to triple my salary I went back to work, along with the exemption I sought from having to take the test.

I found out through the process I was worth a whole lot more money to my employers than they had been paying me.

I found out that it still pays to have principles and stick to your guns.

The reality is most Americans sell themselves far too cheaply and easily and that’s how such men can amass so much wealth and power.

We let them, we give it to them, by letting them take it from us. It is our efforts that make them so rich, and our willingness to bend over and do anything and everything including urinating in a cup for them to run it through machines that makes them so powerful.

We have no one but ourselves to blame, and it doesn’t take a revolution to turn that around, it just takes a little pride and dignity and a few sacred principles.

It’s sad enough that most of us are really whores, it’s truly sad that most of us are cheap whores!

reply to post by dereks

History decided it. It was decided when we all became living breathing assets and everything in our lives became taxable. When was the last time you looked at your pay stub? Your grocery receipt? Your electric bill? It was decided when our sons and daughters became expendable leverage for the lawless militant monarchy that has always been hiding under the facade that we call the United States of America. Unless one is blind, it is hard not to see the betrayal of the people by means of peddling fear, tampering with the food, the water, the weather. It was decided when money became a god, and our government the faithful servants who would see you as a sacrifice to this entity.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE

 

Just don't step on my lawn - cause I am going to do my part too.

GODSPEED to all who believe in this government Administration and to all who believe in this president who has looked you right in the eye and lied to your face, to all who believe the elected officials holding office right now are acting in your best interest.. I hope and pray every night that I am wrong.

But if the worst possible happens and we do have to fight tyranny, know that we will be fighting for our familys and you as well so that you will be able to keep your right to speak what ever you feel you need to.

Listen to your neighbors and friends and know what is going on around you.

I hope that we can all look back on this someday and say that we were wrong.


GODSPEED people,

Eye of Eagle

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That is a great story.

Star for you.

Revolution does not have to be armed and bloody.

Intelligent people can win without fighting.

We still have the tools left in the constitution to battle this monster,
this "conspiracy of monolithic proportions" -JFK

Once again, that was a very inspiring story. I wish that I could give you more stars.

Originally posted by moonzoo7

...It's illegal to call for the armed over-throw of our government, as well as for advancing the idea of killing the President. We are a Nation of Laws for a reason...

[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by moonzoo7]

First off, I would agree the advocating of killing anyone on ATS would be a crime. I have not seen this advocated on ATS myself.

As to calling for "the armed over-throw of our government", those who would seriously conspire to do this would do so in secret. Those who spout off on public forums about revolution are harmless wimps who have a sudden rush of testosterone. They fight the revolution in computer war games and in their muddled mind.

As to wheather revolution should ever take place, one would have to assume the OP would have been on King George's side in 1776. Most in this country were, in fact. But, thank God the revolution took place nevertheless. Otherwise the OP would be singing "God save the King" to this day.

Look at what our nation's founders said about revolution:

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
Patrick Henry

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
George Washington

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
Noah Webster

"What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson

In closing the OP, it would seem, has not explored or thought deeply about what it means to be a true patriot. When the government is no longer the servant of the people, it is the duty of the people to change the government, by whatever means needed, including armed revolution.
............................

I am going to end this topic right here with one simple post. I read the first post and forgive me if this was already posted, but here we go.

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

-The Declaration of Independence




Revolution is not illegal, in fact, is has always been harbored upon in our finest documents. Show me otherwise and you can have your field day - until then, I can continue paying no mind to those posters who feel like we are committing some heinous act of treason.

Originally posted by Pr0t0
I don't have a problem personally with expressions of revolt. The Oktober revolution didn't need the internet to incite the population into revolution. . . . .
1 million people screaming revolution are going to be heard.

Interesting comparison here.

I've read that Jews organised and financed the "October revolution". Trotsky was Jewish and Lenin had Jewish ancestry. I've read that the Rockefellers are financing the "Tea-Party" groups and the advertising we've seen. Both groups were/are wanting to implement a new system to serve their own ends. Is the American political system so bad it needs to be abolished? Do those wanting to overthrow the government really believe this will cause the system to be replaced with a better one? What is the system they want? Have they even thought about it?

Or have these would-be revolutionaries just swallowed the emotive propaganda being spread around, the endless appeals to patriotism and anger, completely lacking in facts, aims or promises?

Learn from history. Trotsky turned on those who had fought to put the Bolsheviks into power, deriding them with, "You are pitiful isolated individuals; you are bankrupts; your role is played out. Go where you belong from now on — into the dustbin of history!"

This revolution, if it ever happens, will be no better. Those fighting will be turned on by those who were using them, and the new system will not have the built in possibility of change which is integral to the present one.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


All I can say to that post

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!

I will never work for anyone else because I fear that scenario and know I do better on my own anyway...

None the less, that's how it's done!

Right gamble!

I'd rather end up in a tent (and have) then sell out myself anyway... It's my Planet as far as i'm concerned, it's some kind of Matrix put here for me to make what I believe out of it... a virtual reality game... no reason NOT to show that kind of Cahones

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Careful?

You're starting to sound like a Free-man.

Your Soul has always been Free to do as You do.

Spark?
Flash and Dash.

Next.....

Originally posted by gwydionblack
I am going to end this topic right here with one simple post. I read the first post and forgive me if this was already posted, but here we go.

"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

-The Declaration of Independence

Revolution is not illegal, in fact, is has always been harbored upon in our finest documents. Show me otherwise and you can have your field day - until then, I can continue paying no mind to those posters who feel like we are committing some heinous act of treason.

What you have posted concerning the Declaration of Independence is correct.
It is well within the power of the people to abolish the government and replace it with a reversion to Constitutional Law, but if you look at all the quotes from EVERYBODY concerning the founding fathers, not once are the words violence or armed revolt either used or insinuated in a preemptive sense.

The Founding Fathers put together the US Constitution so that an armed and bloody revolution would no longer be necessary.
Read the Constitution people. Learn law and use it. Fighting will never win anything.

The absolute best that anyone can do in this type of situation is successfully defend themselves.

TPTB want an armed revolt, because they can use it as a pretext to disarm the country.

READ AND USE THE TOOLS THAT ARE STILL AVAILABLE TO US AND FOUND WITHIN THE CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

The problem, in my opinion, is that the Declaration of Independence does not have the force of law. It is not law, nor is it enshrined in our Constitution. It is merely a declaration. If it were, and our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were given the force of law, this discussion likely wouldn't even need to transpire in my opinion.

Personally, I will never support or endorse the taking of human life for any reason. That isn't because it's illegal, though. It's because I (personally, for myself and only myself) regard killing as being unethical except in direct self-defense, in circumstances where no alternative is available or conceivable.

I respect and support people's right to say otherwise. That's about all I can think to say as is relates to this matter.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
The problem, in my opinion, is that the Declaration of Independence does not have the force of law. It is not law, nor is it enshrined in our Constitution. It is merely a declaration. If it were, and our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were given the force of law, this discussion likely wouldn't even need to transpire in my opinion.

Personally, I will never support or endorse the taking of human life for any reason. That isn't because it's illegal, though. It's because I (personally, for myself and only myself) regard killing as being unethical except in direct self-defense, in circumstances where no alternative is available or conceivable.

I respect and support people's right to say otherwise. That's about all I can think to say as is relates to this matter.

This is a very good point.
The Declaration of Independence is more like a mission statement.
It should be the law.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Historical fact: The Declaration was a screw you message to king George.
It was never intended to be anything but that.

reply to post by OldDragger


I know that OldDragger, but always good to hear from you!




[edit on 3-1-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by moonzoo7


I agree with what you are saying here.

Good job S&F

What doesn't scare me is when these people openly call for the violent destruction of the government. What does concern me is if they abruptly stop.

That's when you should be terrified. When these keyboard revolutionaries stop telling the world what they want to do, and instead start doing it.

When does a parent start worrying about their children? Is it when they can hear them in the other room laughing and giggling and shouting and jumping? Or is it when all of a sudden things go quiet?

So I say, we should all be thankful that for now the keyboard revolutionaries are busy at their keyboards ranting and raving. Because while they are here promoting violence against our government and the destruction of the USA they aren't out doing this...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/610d2f3d821f.jpg[/atsimg]

When they are out doing the above, it causes (*Warning graphic*) this to happen.

And that is too high of a price to pay because a few are disgruntled with the USA.

The Declaration of Independence is the very document in which the Constitution is founded. The content in the later would not have been the same without the former. In my opinion, it holds just as much law as the Constitution itself. Without it, we are not independent and thus the Constitution fails to hold merit.

As far as founding fathers quoting about armed Revolution, I'm pretty sure Jefferson and the others spoke of it a bit more than you give credit. my signature for starters.

Regardless, you are correct. The Constitution was created in a way that when followed, armed revolution SHOULD NOT be necessary. They key words to take not of are "when followed". Clearly the Constitution has been overruled on numerous occasions and the People are left at a point where they can no longer cite the Constitution in search for legal rights. Sure, if the plan the Founding Fathers had set would have been followed, we would not be in the predicament we are in. We the people would have stood up and stopped the mess BEFORE it got out of hand. If only people would have stood up back then...

Oh wait... they did. However, just like today, government ignored them. How many decades are people going to say "Go ahead, just vote in the independents, vote in the real guys of character and make peaceful change" before they realize that this ideology has been being followed for years and year and years - and still today it is worse than ever.

This year is a prime example - you had a mass amount of people march on Washington and the government downplayed and ignored them. Regardless of their view, whether they be petitioning for the return of Happy Days, or a limit in government power, those in office should have taken notice, should have responded, and should have let it be known that the people have been heard. Instead... ignorance. The same ignorance that people continue to believe will change.



But do not worry. I am no unethical murderer. I too believe that death is taken likely when handed out by fellow man. Many follow my creed. This is precisely why, though violent a revolution may be, it does not necessarily entail death. I do not wish death even upon the most corrupt leaders of the world. However, I do wish justice. Should they choose to stand up to justice with lethal force, then regrettably, and as a last resort, lethal force must be used. This is only common sense.


Regardless, it is very legal under my Constitution to speak of open revolution, just as it is legal for me to lead a revolution. Of course those in power aren't going to see it that way. Anybody who isn't for the revolution is always going to make up excuses. Call it a crime all you want, but I feel that revolution is a small crime compared to the crimes against our nation that have been performed over the last century. It more than makes up for it in the end.


How about this, should a revolution ever come and I just happen to be a part of it - when we are living in a better society that enacts more freedoms, I will gladly sit in front of a jury of my peers and face my sentencing for said crimes. If that time ever comes, I'll allow those in the aftermath decide whether it was a crime or not.

I have a few issues with this stuff...

I try to learn about others here, thats my main dig about ATS.

WHY DID THESE MALCONTENTS SLEEP THRU EIGHT YEARS OF PISS POOR, CRIMINAL
BEHAVIOR?

I did not see the militias and constitution lovers mobilizing during the shredding of the constitution, profiteering war and the massive proxy tax which resulted.

Touched on all the alleged problems with the new guy - taxing and delivering money directly in the war profit machine. Never mind that the previous VP had DIRECT ties
with the industry that gains from war and security. Dick had direct control of the military machine that funds his private interests... The fact is astounding, text book corruption, public knowledge and this relationship resulted in many, many deaths.
Our boys have blood on their hands and have died in the service of a couple mens twisted fantasies. Like they were $#@$@# experimenting at everyones else's expense.
Playing GI joe mobsters in the sand, with your money, your kids...

Anyhow I cannot reconcile this with the rhetoric I hear now

I cannot take people seriously when they decry that all there is a grave problem, then deny the previous problem which was extreme and comprised of the same elements they lament over now.

I think we can agree on real solutions that are not violent, drastic, right and left alike.
We need to get the private influence out of DC first - until that ends nothing will change.
This also means we need to be willing to spend a large amount of money to publicly fund all election, all of them, FULLY funded. No bitching or moaning about cost, we all need to agree on this with NO exceptions...

My righty friends, you do not save something you love by killing it, as a result you may learn the hard lesson Dr. Frankenstein experienced, you dig?



[edit on 3-1-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by whatukno


That is it, I'm done with you. Your irrationality knows no bounds to trolling. Grouping all patriots together and calling us Nazi's is one thing. Comparing us to Islamic radicals is another. I even went so far as to ignore the blatant claims of racism and won-ton want for murder and pillaging.

However, when you try to link us to destruction of life and the death of innocent people, that is when it goes to far. Frankly, I'm tired of it and it needs to stop, NOW.

I'm about done with this garbage discussion. Some good etiquette ATS enforces here, no?