Talk of Armed Revolution on ATS Inappropriate

Just thought I'd throw this out there:

US legal code declares armed revolution to be a legal and moral act when the government fails to uphold life, liberty and pursuit of happiness under the consent of the governed.

Indeed, whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.

See US Code section under "The Organic Laws of the United States of America"

These laws revolve around the natural rights of man, and as such, can not be nullified by court rulings, legislation, or any other governmental body.

In fact, the US code declares its not only a right, but a duty, to throw off such a government.


It would be a fun time on ATS to see the congress pass such a law today.

I could see the weeping and gnashing of teeth by members of our public school indoctrinated youth decrying such a law as blasphemy. Demanding the heads of the legislators responsible on a stick.





[edit on 2-1-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


My sentiments exactly. When the corporatists' use for a conservative puppet ended, they switched it out for a friendlier face - someone people could trust and look up to. The whole campaign reeked of the corporate ad-world's co-opting of the countercultures of the 1990s - it's hip, it's cool, it's young and it's aware of it's place in the world. But in the end it's just a market demographic to conquer, with an item to sell to the youth.

I propose that a several part solution - the first part being the destruction of the large multinationals and chains that have wiped out the mom and pop stores of yesteryear. Mainly buy local only, maintain a neighborhood garden, things of these nature. Second, a path of Gandhian style civil disobedience along with general strikes. Third, my favorite part: subvert the life blood of the corporate beast: advertising. Advertising has infiltrated every inch of our landscape. It screams at us from the television screen, from the sides of the road, from the mouths of our friends (back in the 90s corporations hired college students to talk up a certain beer brand on campus). We are painfully aware of advertising. Well, I posit an advertising campaign that makes people painfully aware of the world they live it: people will be forced to see what their tax dollars do in the Middle East, the control of their media by a select few, the cold hard facts on the role of corporations in the actions of their so-called leaders.

But perhaps that such things could spur people into social change is just wishful thinking, no?

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Someone336]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
To that end we all can play a powerful and peaceful part in simply how we chose to spend our money and where and on what. Many of us, the vast majority of us, enrich the corporate culture by gladly giving it our hard earned money for services and products that we could get from smaller local companies. We don’t do that, we keep making the corporate monsters bigger and bigger often with the idea we are saving a buck in the process but it’s a short term savings as the Corporations ultimately look to profit more and more by exporting American Jobs, stagnating wages, and negotiating further government subsidies and laws that enable them by detracting from us.

Very true. Unfortunately, the Wal-Mart generation can't see this and, like those who fall prey to the lies of the Rs and Ds, will only aid in the perpetuation of the problem.

Well, the way I see it, the laws making this illegal are in themselves illegal. The founding fathers in documents and letters sent to others explicity stated that occasionally the tree of liberty will need to be watered with blood of patriots. They have also stated that when our government ceases to work for the people, the people must tear that government apart and start anew. Now, I can see where people could make a very strong case that the government no longer has the people's interest at heart, and I do agree with that position. The liars and crooks that inhabit D.C have written law after law to protect themselves from the people. So, thereby, by the founding documents and principals of our nation, the discussion is a legitimate one. Any laws to interfere with that are simply the spineless way of D.C politicians to protect thier lifestyle. Seriously, wouldn't it be nice to be able to write your employer's human resources guidelines so you could never be fired?

Now, as far as calling for harm to befall our president...I can not agree with that, even though I loathe the man, and wouldnt throw a thimble full of water on his back if he was on fire. I can not get on board with anyone calling to harm him.

Originally posted by rleexray
I'm new on here and I joined because of some of the things I see happening in the world today. The Norway Spiral vs Acient petroglyphs, the Vatican's recent proclamation of our extraterrestrial brothers, technology advancements I've seen and heard about, all tied in with my own observations of two advanced craft that shouldn't exist given today's technology. I hoped to find intelligent discourse about the stuff on my mind, not more of the same.
Sadly, these kind of posts occur on every forum I visit. The worst abusers I see are actually on military.com. As a US Navy veteran of the Cold War, I find myself actually angry at these people I don't even know. Every person in the military has sworn allegiance to and agrees to accept the orders of their Commander in Chief . Some of the posts border on treason. I am ashamed of those and refuse to call the posters my brothers at arms.
There has not been a President in office since I was old enough to understand that I agreed completely with but I swore to fight to the death for the man. That attitude hasn't changed in my civilian life.
If you must, speak to the man's policies, but keep talk of assassinations, treason, and sedition in your own twisted mind. Only those of your ilk want to hear it anyway.

What planet are you on? Are you that oblivious to the dire straits your country is in and how the rest of the world mainly views you? Europeans, Australians and Asians laugh at the insular naivety of blind patriots like you. Your country and your brethren are being made a laughing stock of by it’s government as your leaders wage unjust and illegal occupation of militarily weaker countries all in the name of the monopolization of resources. It’s complete and utter compartmentalization and hypocrisy. Are you kidding me? You’re nothing but the bastard (not profane – literal) offspring off your European forefathers! You are not indigenous to your land! America is just over 200 years young and I doubt it will stand as you know it in a century’s time. Can you honestly not see the trajectory of your own country? It’s going to be left in the smoldering debris and antiquated history books as just another corrupt maniacal expansive militant nation like the Nazi Germany (I am not saying that Americans are Nazi’s)! You’re economy is screwed! You’re land is being privatized! A food crisis is just lurking around the corner! Where is this great country you’re rambling on about?

So, you have blind allegiance to you ‘Commander in Chief’ no matter what crimes he and his ‘ilk’ are accountable for? Sweet Mary mother of God I’m not even going to touch this one because my head will explode. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?

You’ll fight to the death for that man’s protection but turn a blind eye to the subsequent generational suffering as a direct result of the implementations during his term? GREAT JOB ON PROTECTING EACH OTHER DURING HURRICANE KATRINA AND AN EVEN BETTER JOB ON PURSUING THE 911 INQUIRY BECAUSE CLEARLY THE REST OF US i.e. THE WORLD LOOKING ON, WHO WITNESSED YE DO VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO ANY REQUIRED EFFECT AT ALL MUST HAVE GOT IT ALL WRONG!

Continue dry humping your stars and stripes but I guarantee you’ll do a complete 180 on your convictions before the day you die for the ramifications of the exercises of the leader you so blindly advocate will come into fruition within your lifetime.

No-ones pushing assasination but the things you regard as 'treason' and 'sedition' are puerile but nonetheless asinine. You're a zealot whether you'll concede to it or not.


[edit on 2-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

reply to post by SM2


That's right.

It is already legal in the US to rebel against the government when it fails to uphold the natural rights of man under the consent of the governed.

It's a natural right, not something that can be arbitrarily legislated out of existence.

The US was founded out of rebellion. The founders saw it as their inherent right as men to remove themselves from the King's rule due to a long train of abuses he committed against their natural rights.

No law, no court, no government decree can over-ride mans natural rights. It is those rights the constitution was created to protect and it is those rights which are being trampled on daily by our out of control, criminal, unconstitutional government.

That said, I don't think we need an armed revolution just yet. But once the dollar gets blown out (which is coming sooner rather than later), I think an over-throw to restore a constitutional republic is not something that should be dismissed.

The dollar is going away. The question is whether or not our government will uphold our natural rights and re-institute a gold backed currency or if they will turn over sovereignty of our money to a private world bank.

The US federal government is actively working to destabilize the US. If they keep doing what they are doing, they are going to have a rebellion on their hands. When people can't eat, they loose it.

A 400 dollar a week unemployment check isn't going to buy a can of beans very soon.




[edit on 2-1-2010 by mnemeth1]

I in some part disagree with this post. The Decleration of Independence says we the people have the right to keep the goverment in check. www.perkel.com...

While I do not think that violence is the real way to handle our problems, I believe that sometimes you are in a situation where your only choice may be to be violent, to take care of things temporarily. I don't really think we have come to that point at this time. But I think we need to make our voices heard, and we need to do something about insuring our rights and freedoms aren't just stripped away. Shoving a gun in someone's face isn't the first thing you should think of, unless it's absolutely necessary.

Troy

reply to post by WTFover

Very true. Unfortunately, the Wal-Mart generation can't see this and, like those who fall prey to the lies of the Rs and Ds, will only aid in the perpetuation of the problem.

I know my friend it does seem like sticking ones finger in the proverbial dyke and hoping to stop the flood.

Once upon a time before there was ‘Hope and Change’ there were the buzzwords “Power to the People”.

The people have to slowly and painstakingly reminded that the power ultimately does rest with them, to either cede away to those who will do with it what they will, or to take personal responsibility for.

I grew up in an America where you bought American goods, and you didn’t cross picket lines, and you looked to buy local and have a personal relationship with those merchants you purchased locally from.

It was a much more prosperous America as a result of those prudent efforts and disciplines.

Somewhere along the line in the multi-media blitz, the me generation, the on-demand internet age, people have come to believe that their individual actions have no collective impact or power.

But the reality is that they do, people keep looking for saviors in the form of politicians and icons, but the reality is you just have to look in the mirror, and use your own brain and stop and think a bit about the impact of your own actions.

That’s the message that should be preached instead of revolution, for the reality is half the people who preach revolution are personally responsible for the status quo they want to rebel against.

We don’t need more government we need to learn how to truly wisely govern ourselves. Ultimately even a Nanny State can’t do that, only we as individuals can do that.

Originally posted by cybertroy
While I do not think that violence is the real way to handle our problems, I believe that sometimes you are in a situation where your only choice may be to be violent, to take care of things temporarily. I don't really think we have come to that point at this time. But I think we need to make our voices heard, and we need to do something about insuring our rights and freedoms aren't just stripped away. Shoving a gun in someone's face isn't the first thing you should think of, unless it's absolutely necessary.

Troy

The government shoves a gun in your face daily.

Think about that.

Try not paying your taxes once.

Try walking around with a gun in public once.

Try defending your property once.

Try to sell a gold backed currency as the constitution demands once.

Gun to your head.

In fact, everything the government does, it does through force of arms.

The US founding fathers were very cognizant of this fact, which is why they did everything possible to limit the power of government.



[edit on 2-1-2010 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by moonzoo7



I agree, violence is bad and unnecessary. Does anyone here honestly think our fellow Citizens, family, and friends would use arm's against us en mass? The government is showing it's own hand with incidents like the G20. When it's obvious and publicly witnessed they begin to question what's going on. We need to educate and talk to our civil and military servants.

Why take up arms when we can peacefully walk away and no longer consent? It's about person responsibility. Wake up to our sovereign history and realize what is allowing this to continue, not what is happening.



No violence, just assert your rights. Do a Citizen Observer with local police and talk to them. Write your state's House and Senate. Think locally not globally like they want us to. Turn off your TV and step away. See how calm it is in the world around you when you don't think about it. Then think of the good you can do in your community to change from within, without their system of control. Assert your RIGHT and say no.

In Arizona HCR 2024 declaring sovereignty has passed. It's up in the Senate now as SCR 1038 , write and voice your opinion.


[edit on 2-1-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by moonzoo7


I do agree. The times of revolution aren't gone, but they certainly not needed in America any time soon. For all the bads the government has done and for all the lies the president has said, one thing remains true: there is law and order, and with it there still is freedom. Any all all direct assaults towards freedom have and will continue to be stopped without violence. I simply say don't worry for now. People can and have bought into lies from the underbelly and formed their own anarchistic groups that proclaim fame and glory, but end in blood and ruin. Don't fall for the trap.

reply to post by mnemeth1


mnemeth1, star for you! Well put. We're no longer free.

I felt less 'policed' in Communist China than I do here. Far fewer restrictions and regulations in Communist China than in the 'free nation' of the USA.

A revolution is past due. But like 99% of the population, at my age I'd rather watch a round of the ultimate fighter than jump in the ring. That's how tyrannical and despotic governments evolve. I'm just hoping some very powerful branch will act and balance it all out again.

reply to post by moonzoo7


Perhaps you have been interpreting them wrong.... Havn't had the time to obviously read each thread, but the one's I have, have not made any direct marks towards armed revolution. At least speaking for my part. I do not believe this is the time or place.

1. Obviously a red target is painting on your head for making such remarks, and frankly.... probably the worst thing you could do...

2. There is no way in hell, any of us... I don't care how well armed, or how many real people we have... are going to realistically be able to actually take on the government in an armed confrontation. I'm sorry, but there is no real way to get around that type of power and strength advantage.

3. Violence is just going to lead to more violence! What is that going to help? Look around and see what the world has really become.... If we want to successfully change what is going on, then the problem starts at the root!

Now I can't tell you exactly what to do... that is for you to decide, every one of you. But I can say that TRUE power lies in the masses. It is what we do right now consciously as a society that is going to solve our problems. With awareness comes power...

He'll I'm an Australian. But i'd support armed revolution in the United STates because from what i can see your politicians are corrupt, the political process in your country doesn't work, You're constitutionjal rights are being taken away and IGNORED by your political leaders. Yet they dont seem to be taken into arrest and charged or get chewed up and spat out by your political system.

I'm not the one who has to live with those rights being taken away, but I see your political process as screwed, the politicians screw you, and it affects your constitutional rights. The way your police react to peaceful protests are ridiculous also.

Time to awaken the people who are so negligent. Eventually your citizens will have enough and react. I'm certain it wont be peaceful in the end...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If only there was a way of getting this message to the masses.... because I certainly agree

More people need to be aware of this and where the true power and control lies.. .in a balanced nation OF THE PEOPLE... by the people.. and for the people this is the only way!

Originally posted by Polynomial C
I don't think you have to worry ...

This "Revolution" these nuts talk about, is just an excuse for them to gather and play their "I am a patriot, i want to live in the 18th century. i love the founding fathers" games

Nobody is taking them seriously .. they are a joke ..

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Polynomial C]

The founding fathers are not a game in any way. You are just totally guessing as to what someone will really do if they advocating some sort of violence. We have the secret service who takes everything too seriously and then we have you who thinks these threats are a joke. Well, they probably should not be treated as a total joke, even if they are taken too seriously much of the time by the secret service.

No star or flag because if someone thinks violence is the answer they should stand up and state that, though definitely behind an anonymous internet connection or they are all but guaranteed to be put on a serious blacklist somewhere. There is a time and place for violence... specifically for self-defense. Even if someone isn't really willing to follow through its still fair to state the opinion.

If the US constitution is being subverted then in fact the criminals would be those subverting the constitution and the heroes would be those aiming to restore it, regardless of who the person is doing the subverting.

Originally posted by truthquest
There is a time and place for violence... specifically for self-defense.

You see, some people consider the government putting a gun to your head and telling you that you must purchase a private health insurance package to be violence that they have a right to defend themselves against.

Most of the violence in the 20th century has been perpetrated by government, not civilians.

Originally posted by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

If only there was a way of getting this message to the masses.... because I certainly agree

More people need to be aware of this and where the true power and control lies.. .in a balanced nation OF THE PEOPLE... by the people.. and for the people this is the only way!

There is a way of getting the message to the masses its called word of mouth.

Ultimately what causes most people the most angst and shapes their behavior the most is peer pressure.

"Oh you bought that at Wal-Mart?" why would you do that?

"Now thanks, I wouldn't be caught dead in a Toyota, the bus will be a long in a few minutes GM makes that".

"Dominos how can you eat that junk, Lido's pizza on the corner has the best New York Style Slice in the city, what's wrong with you".

Ultimately its word of mouth and peer pressure that has the most impact.

Political correctness is really about one thing and one thing only and that's validating stupidity!

Thanks for sharing friend.

Happy New Years to you and yours.

"But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

From the Declaration of Independence

"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit
from revolutionists and rebels -- men and women who dare to dissent
from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse
honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

"They [the founders] proclaimed to all the world
the revolutionary doctrine of the divine rights of the common man.
That doctrine has ever since been the heart of the American faith."

Dwight D, Eisenhower

"What country can preserve its liberties,
if its rulers are not warned from time to time that
this people preserve the spirit of resistance?
Let them take arms."

Thomas Jefferson

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their Constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

Abraham Lincoln

"An unconditional right to say what one pleases about public affairs
is what I consider to be the minimum guarantee of the First Amendment."

Justice Hugo L. Black

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."

Samuel Adams

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. "

John F. Kennedy

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of those ends, it is Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

I can think of no way to say it better. than from these few quotes which are merely a taste of the available material regarding an American citizens right and more importantly duty to at the very least "Discuss" the overthrow of a "Rogue" Government. These people are not for the abolition of government they are however for the overthrow of "corrupt Government.

The very Idea that you are requesting the censorship of "one" of our most sacred rights - our right to free speech is abhorrent and it disgusts me that there are others that feel as you do. I don't wish to interfere with your right to feel as you do but not when you are attempting to eliminate "the peoples" right to express their opinions which are contrary to that of your own.

This type of request is indicative of what is wrong with this country today and I hope sincerely that no moderator regardless of viewpoint on the subject matter would even entertain the idea of censoring their membership because of you.