Talk of Armed Revolution on ATS Inappropriate

Sometimes I think the government is pushing us to riot so they can institute martial law. They tried unsuccessfully to do that in Chicago with the-what was it, the Republican Nat'l Convention?

This is a point that comes up every so often with Alex Jones.

Fighting insanity with insanity is not the answer.

If you think about it, the people we have access to aren't the movers and shakers that are leading the insanity. The local police/militia are just following orders, they have more guns and more ammo than many of us combined, which is one reason why I am not a pro arms guy myself, but that's another topic.

reply to post by OldDragger



What it boils down to is that some people think it's OK to murder people they disagree with. They guise this in patriotism. It's murder. They feel a need to justify their barbarism with extended BS about freedom, the founders etc. But they still want to kill people because of their politics.
There are dangerous crazy people out there. People that simply cannot accept Obama as president. They post here about him being a traitor, a Muslim etc. They are thugs that seek to usurp the Democratic process and The Constitution because they cannot tolerate their fellow Americans.
They don't give a crap about The Constitution or anybody's freedom but their own.




man have you got it wrong. some of us have taken an oath to defend the constitution and as far as I can tell our President is unconstitutional. if I'm wrong I will stand down, but so far I haven't seen the proof that I am. maybe you think he is cool because he is half black and you feel good someone black has made it to the top. I'm real glad you feel all warm and fuzzy. enjoy it while you can.

reply to post by rleexray


I have taken the oath on enlistment two times in my life. On neither occasion did I take an oath of allegiance to the Commander in Chief. I did swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign anddomestic.

Several questions for your consideration -

1. If the Commander in Chief gives an order which is illegal, are you bound by oath to perform that order?

2. If the Commander in Chief gives an order against the Constitution, are you bound by oath to carry out that order?

3. Is an order which violates the Constitution an illegal order?

Just food for thought.

reply to post by watcher2


Being concerned with my own freedom is being concerned with the freedom of others. I cannot assist in the securing of another's freedom if I am not concerned that I may lose my own and am not willing to stand up for my own freedom.

How is that being a murderer?

Originally posted by rfk55tn
reply to post by rleexray

 

I have taken the oath on enlistment two times in my life. On neither occasion did I take an oath of allegiance to the Commander in Chief. I did swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign anddomestic.

Several questions for your consideration -

1. If the Commander in Chief gives an order which is illegal, are you bound by oath to perform that order?

2. If the Commander in Chief gives an order against the Constitution, are you bound by oath to carry out that order?

3. Is an order which violates the Constitution an illegal order?

Just food for thought.

The tribunal that presided over the Nuremberg Trials rejected the argument of just following orders as a valid defense and all individuals on trial were held accountable for their actions. Just a little sauce to go with that food for thought.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by rfk55tn
reply to post by rleexray

 

I have taken the oath on enlistment two times in my life. On neither occasion did I take an oath of allegiance to the Commander in Chief. I did swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign anddomestic.

Several questions for your consideration -

1. If the Commander in Chief gives an order which is illegal, are you bound by oath to perform that order?

2. If the Commander in Chief gives an order against the Constitution, are you bound by oath to carry out that order?

3. Is an order which violates the Constitution an illegal order?

Just food for thought.

The tribunal that presided over the Nuremberg Trials rejected the argument of just following orders as a valid defense and all individuals on trial were held accountable for their actions. Just a little sauce to go with that food for thought.

Well... it really depends on who wins in the end and what the winners will do, what their beliefs are, etc... its all very flexible ya know?

Originally posted by SpacePunk
Calling for armed revolution is inappropriate because most who call for it do not understand the potential consequences.

Is this because those for peaceful revolution, which has never happened in the history of Earth, have the intelligence market cornered? No.

I wouldn't even consider it a real option until they overtly violate the Constitution such as arms seizure.

Your opinion of an overt violation of the constitution is just that, your opinion. I see overt violations every day.

Take the latest G20 in PA.

"by order of chief police i order you to disperse"

This was an overt violation of the constitution whether you fail to recognize it or not.

Those who call for violent revolution now are suspect. I bet they have never even seen a dead body outside a casket. Or they are working for the feds.

lol @ working for the feds, yet you and others loike you keep calling the revolutionaries paranoid.

Many of them have never seen war, fired a weapon at another human being, seen a dead body outside of a funeral, etc... No matter how many guns they have, how many BDU outfits, how many times they've seen Full Metal Jacket, etc... They simply do not know a darn thing. I just love how they like to jack around in BDU's. If it ever comes down to it being a shooting match, I'd much rather not be wearing BDU's for the simple fact that both sides would be wearing camo, and that makes it real hard to determine who is the enemy, and who is the friend.

You should wear fluorescent orange, like its hunting season, so everyone else knows who not to shoot.

Funny how war has been waged with both sides wearing camo and both sides still manage to find the right targets most of the time. Talk about not knowing anything...

reply to post by cybertroy


Not a challenge - just a few questions. At what point does one resort to violence in changing government? Is it when free speech and the right to peaceably assemble is dumped in PA? How about when you are imprisoned for a crime which is not even on the books (i.e., paying taxes on wages)? Is it when they assess you a $25k fine for not having health insurance and destroy you financially? Is it the right of the individual to make the choice as to when to use force? If so, how does one make that choice?

It seems from a number of the postings here that not many people are either: a) willing to draw a line in the sand; or, b) consider the consequences of inaction.

reply to post by watcher73


Well said. Overt violations of the Constitution are happening now on a daily basis. And it isn't even happening only at the federal level. What would some do if their state governments moved to declare martial law over energy use??

reply to post by SpacePunk


The Constitution does not grant the government anything. The Constitution delegates authority to be used in the name and for the benefit of the citizens of the United States. The delegation of authority to the federal government means that authority is supervised by those who delegated the authority in the first place - citizens.

Delegation of authority is not the ceding of authority. Therefore, any authority the federal government exercises is exercised on loan, so to speak, from the citizens. When the feds violate that delegated trust, they violate the Constitution. When they violate the Constitution, they must choose - either pull back or face the consequences.

The question now becomes - what are the consequences?

reply to post by watcher73

lol @ working for the feds, yet you and others loike you keep calling the revolutionaries paranoid.

You quoted me and I said no such thing,

But I'll say this though. To some, if we're not shooting, we're not resisting. They want it to happen YESTERDAY. It won't happen on your timetable, or on mine. It will happen when it happens. And we won't start it. They keep pushing us, so that makes them responsible for their own destruction. Their arrogance makes it inevitable, IMO.

reply to post by SpacePunk


Have you ever "seen" a war (to use your own words). I assume that by use of the word "seen" your intent was to communicate that a large number of people advocating armed revolution have never been in combat. Have you?

If not, what is worth fighting for, in your view? It appears that freedom would not be your first choice. So what would it be? Your own life? The life of a loved one, friend or neighbor? Would you use violence at all in any situation, for instance, when a BATF agent stomps your pet to death in front of you? Would you do something to him for such an act?

I merely ask in order to understand your point of view.

Originally posted by PSUSA
reply to post by watcher73

 

lol @ working for the feds, yet you and others loike you keep calling the revolutionaries paranoid.

You quoted me and I said no such thing,

"Originally posted by SpacePunk "

No idea why you think I quoted you. I have to go look at the original post I quoted now.

edit: Oh I See what youre getting at.

Sorry, too late to go separating it all now. Im gonna leave it for the point I was making and you have made your point, cool?

[edit on 3-1-2010 by watcher73]

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I keep reading these posts saying that revolution is necessary in this country. But I have yet to see anyone prove that a revolution is indeed necessary!

In all seriousness, what is so deathly and tragically wrong about this country that we need a revolution, armed or peaceful? Are there problems in this country? Absolutely. Do we need to make changes to the way we do things and live? Absolutely. But what necessitates a revolution? The way I see it, the problems we have in this country are nothing extraordinary. Its our own arrogance and our spoiled-rotten nature that causes us to believe that.

Like I said, this is America and it is still the most prosperous, powerful and free country in the world. Love it or leave it.

Have you by chance seen the footage from the G20 in Pittsburgh? did you see the 90lb (only when sopping wet) girl get stomped and beaten because she got ran over by the police line. That could have been anyone of our daughters in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Have you seen this? did you hear the retractions and apologies for inappropriate conduct by the "enforcers" of the G20? No? that's because there were none.... this is America. Wherever that type of behavior is commonplace I feel for you. But not here and not on my watch.

If you can look at just this small example and still say to yourself I don't understand what is so wrong with this Country then you really are lost. And this is just a drop in the bucket of what is readily available and verifiable without dispute. Check it out for yourself. Then gut up and stop rationalizing because if you don't, eventually you are going to rationalize yourself all the way to an internment camp, if not worse.

Learn your history and that of other developed societies which have gone tyrannical before coming on here a regurgitating just what the MSM wants you to believe. If we fail to learn from the mistakes of those societies then we will most assuredly suffer their fate.

reply to post by WWJFKD


I've seen a lot of footage of the g20 but never this

got a link?

I used to be worried that there were actual idiots in the world who took all this tea-bagger and REVOLUTION!!!! stuff seriously... then I read this thread.

I like how the fat lazy moronic average American who has neither the intelligence nor attention span to program a VCR is some how going to lead an armed revolt against the most powerful nation in the world. Why don't you people go back to complaining about illegals and gossiping about Wal-Mart sales and leave the rest of us alone.

I also like how none of these people have ever read a history book. Sure they can quote famous lines from our forefathers when it fits their hilariously stupid beliefs (much like religious people) but that's it and they have no concept of what a revolution or revolt is. It would literally tear this country into pieces. Hundreds of thousands if not millions would die. The entire system would collapse. To put it in terms these people can understand. Your budweiser and fritos wouldn't be on the shelf at the local Piggly Wiggly anymore. And what's funny is a probably even more corrupt and #ed up system would take it's place.

America and Americans are getting exactly what they deserve right now. And all these Patriot, red state, going rogue, tea-bagging, retards are getting exactly what they deserve.

reply to post by CuriousSkeptic


It is extremely doubtful that you had the necessary attention span to read through the entirety of posts in this thread, but then again why should you since you are infinitely wiser than "the fat lazy moronic American's" who have posted in this thread?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Just expressing a thought related to the topic. Need some help programming your VCR?

Originally posted by rfk55tn
reply to post by SpacePunk

 

Have you ever "seen" a war (to use your own words). I assume that by use of the word "seen" your intent was to communicate that a large number of people advocating armed revolution have never been in combat. Have you?

If not, what is worth fighting for, in your view? It appears that freedom would not be your first choice. So what would it be? Your own life? The life of a loved one, friend or neighbor? Would you use violence at all in any situation, for instance, when a BATF agent stomps your pet to death in front of you? Would you do something to him for such an act?

I merely ask in order to understand your point of view.

Seen a war? Yeah, been there, done that. Yes, I've fired a weapon at another human. I've taken the oath of enlistment two times. The Constitution is my bible. Freedom is always my first choice, and all battles must be picked judiciously. Right now the battle is at the ballot box, preparation is in getting people to realize that it is not in their best interest to re-elect an incumbent, and to vote for the people that will do the right thing no matter how much it might hurt.

Yeah, if someone attacked me or my own, I would strike back, hard, without quarter, and without remorse. That is where picking your fights comes in. If it is just some rabble then it would be immediate. If it were such as batf as in your example, not immediately. They are trained, well armed, and would have better numbers. The dead get neither justice nor revenge. Oh, all hell would break lose for them, but when they least expect it. Nationally, right now is not the time.

So, tell me, what do you know?

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Just expressing a thought related to the topic. Need some help programming your VCR?

No, I'm kind of tied up actually reading all that has been posted, but thanks for offering.