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"We will persevere and defeat this enemy"

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posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:40 PM
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Tonight in a speech President Bush will have said this:

"We will persevere and defeat this enemy, and hold this hard-won ground for the realm of liberty."

A bold statement?.. A wise goal?.. Or a reality that we cannot step back in this war EVER?

Set aside your political agendas for a moment and think of what I am about to tell you.

This war has caused many of us to be shaken at the core in many ways.. and feeling the whole range of emotions that any rational human should feel. But lets think about this war and the implications of an early end for a bit.

We all know what this terrorism is now.. we can all see who this enemy is.. and I think we can all accept that no matter what they will not give up in there persistent quest to bring terror to us, to ALL of us who are non-believers in their radical faith, All of us who are seen as the great evil and the "infidel"

Be it Iraq.. or any place on this planet where this radical faith exists is the enemy who would rather see you die than to live another moment in a world dominated as they see it by our culture of freedom.

Mark my word they will not relent in their desire to kill us.. to terrorise is... and their dreams are made of attacks that would have us die by the many thousands and even millions.

This enemy is wide spread, and throughout this world now.. there numbers are by some accounts in the many hundreds of thousands and growing every day... and we have fed this enemy through the very war meant to defeat them... they are growing... and their hatred and contempt is massive and far reaching now.

They do not have a real army. they do not have high tech weapons.. and among their favorite places to hide and launch attacks is their very own holy sites and mosques.

We can find a way to escape Iraq early.. and it will be likely caused by political pressure.. and in time we may withdraw from this war on terrorism all together... But that is the moment they are waiting even praying for.

If we back up one inch in this war we only kick open the door.. a door that will bring us a new hell that will overshadow the events of September 11, 2001.

We are at a point here... it is more than support of this war.. far more than support of the current Administration... We have the future of our nation, our economy and our own fellow citizens at stake.

We cannot back down for if we do... what comes next in the not so distant future will lay waste to all that freedom has brought us... we abandon all that millions have fought for in the name of freedom... we will have left a world of fear for our children and generations to come.

We cannot just give up on this war.. we must stand strong and united... This enemy is not going to vanish or go away because we walk away from this war.

In fact as I see it we have no choice but to continue the fight. and to take it wherever that enemy exists.

The other option to just back down from this war and hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, and a path to peace is an illusion.

WE MUST FIGHT.. or be willing to accept the fact that terrorist attacks will come to us anytime, anywhere and on larger and larger scales.. until it either claims your life or the lives of those that you know or those loved ones around you now.

We do not have the option of giving up in this war... or do we?

Gazz



[Edited on 24-5-2004 by UM_Gazz]




posted on May, 24 2004 @ 08:20 PM
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To withdraw from Iraq now would have the same effect on history as if we had been thrown off the beaches in Normandy, eventually we would prevail but it would be at a much greater cost in human lives and toil.

Amen, UM_Gazz, well said - I only wish more people would realize its well past time for petty bickering over politics and that we must come together to win this war on terror. Its to late to argue the reasons we're there simply because we are there and the clock does not run backwards - only forward.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
Amen, UM_Gazz, well said - I only wish more people would realize its well past time for petty bickering over politics and that we must come together to win this war on terror. Its to late to argue the reasons we're there simply because we are there and the clock does not run backwards - only forward.


Thank you Phoenix


First for the record I wrote that moments before Bush's speech began.. and the quote was from a preview of his speech on CNN.com.

I really thought this would die a quick death without any replies.

I know there are many here opposed to this war in all forms.. and I too think WAR is not a good thing.. but what you see in my original post is the result of a LOT of deep thought.. and I can asure you each word is meant to speak the truth.

It is time to see the trap of this war.. the trap set by this enemy.. we stepped into it.. and now we can either walk away and give them a great victory and give motivation to cause more terror... or we can fight... I see walking away as the worst possible option.

Gazz



[Edited on 24-5-2004 by UM_Gazz]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Thank you, again, Gazz, for a thoughtful post.
Like any rational human being, I detest war. Had I had my druthers, we would never have gone into Iraq. However, we DID go into Iraq and, to back away now, would only embolden the terrorists. You are so right. We've stepped right into their trap. We can't go back and we have to move forward with something that was, perhaps, ill-advised.
I become very pessimistic sometimes and this is one of those times. The idea of losing hundreds, perhaps thousands, more to the sands of Iraq, seems like sheer idiocy. Yet, to abandon Irau, at this point, would be opening the door for even more terrorism.
This thing has a certain force of it's own. Once begun, it cannot stop without horrible consequences. And, yet, the consequences of staying are terrible as well.
I hate this war, but I hate the fear that terrorism breeds just as much.
It seems we are in a no-win situation here.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic.
joey



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 09:15 PM
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Was that you saying that UM_Gazz, or Bush? Or maybe it was Tony Blair; it was certainly reminiscent of his 'I feel the hand of history on our shoulder' bullcrap. Pump your heart full of as much 'steadfast resolve' and suck up as much patriotic pride as you want. It isn't going to changed one damn thing.
If people still think the terrorists and a large faction of the Middle East hate us because of our supposed 'freedom' then there's not much hope for them, they might as well go back to bed.

The only thing this war has done for the 'war on terror' is to raise the number of terrorist we face, to raise the number of people willing to join their ranks, raised the hatred towards us throughout the Middle East and raised the support for the terrorist organisations amongst their native populations. Great going.

We certainly can't withdraw from Iraq; it would make things much worse. The only thing we could have done is not go in in the first place.
But hey, we can't Blame Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney et al can we? I mean it's not as if millions of people were telling them all this crap was going to happen before they went in is it?


No, we should forget all about who's to blame and all those pesky why and wherefores and puff out our chests, get on the stiff upper lip and back them to the hilt!


You'll forgive me if I pass.



by Um_Gazz
We all know what this terrorism is now.. we can all see who this enemy is..


Can we? Seems to me even the two greatest allies in this 'war on terror' can't even agree who they are in Iraq. At least, of course, in public.

Check the leaked memo of what the U.K really thinks about what the latest state of affairs in Iraq:



It also admits that "there are signs of better organisation by insurgents and a reservoir of popular support, at least among Sunnis."

This assessment contrasts to the public coalition statements that the insurgents are "terrorists" and " foreigners".

BBC


Incidentally, Bushs speech yesterday (today?) was at the U.S Army War College. Isn't that the same U.S Army War College that heavily criticised the war on terror? Why I think it is!

www.abovetopsecret.com...







[Edited on 24-5-2004 by kegs]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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withdrawing from iraq will make this a vietnam times 10. If we leave now, every single pro-american man, woman and child will be slaughtered just like Nick Berg was. Trust me, we are in it till the end, or else it will be ten times worse. We started this war, and we have to end it, or we will just make things a lot worse then the status quo.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:36 AM
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It's an absoulte failure built upon a flase premise for being there. Put adults back in charge and we'll get out of Iraq. Else, say hello to Korea part II.....50 years and counting.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:42 AM
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Bush is like a child with his hand on a cookie jar to small for him, he can see the goodies but can not get his hand to fit enough to get them.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz


We do not have the option of giving up in this war... or do we?

Gazz



[Edited on 24-5-2004 by UM_Gazz]


With all due respect, you've been reading way too much into all this. And, perhaps listening to the wrong people. Turn off the idiots on TV, get yourself a nice, stiff drink, go sit yourself down in the shade and RELAX.

Your comments sound thoughtful, if not somewhat lofty in your intention; but way overblown. It seems as though your mind has been affected a bit much by the purveyors of doom. I heard Bush. I heard Wolfowitz. I heard the insane cry wolf one too many times.

Osama is the boogy man and there is someone standing behind the curtain. Don't buy into this madness.

Of course there are terrorists. There have been since the beginning of time. But this tragic fiction of Al CIAda that has been foisted upon us is sheer f-ing lunacy.

The CIA and Pakistani ISI created Al CIAda. They fund Al CIAda. Even if the bad guys don't know it.

You wanna send a message to the real terrorists? Tell them we know who they are.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The CIA and Pakistani ISI created Al CIAda. They fund Al CIAda. Even if the bad guys don't know it.


Couldn't you have at least given it a day before making your wacky claims again? Since you made the claim you now have to show the proof.

I am pretty sure that, even if they did create them, the CIA would not leave evidence behind for people like you to turn up. They are not that stupid.

While they may have provide arms and equipment to them, it was when they fought the Russians. No weapons have been provided to them for some time.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by omega1
withdrawing from iraq will make this a vietnam times 10. If we leave now, every single pro-american man, woman and child will be slaughtered just like Nick Berg was. Trust me, we are in it till the end, or else it will be ten times worse. We started this war, and we have to end it, or we will just make things a lot worse then the status quo.


Vietnam times 10? Shouldn't of we withdrawn from Vietnam sooner, rather than stayed and put more kids through the meat grinder, and until it escalated to the point of insanity? You know, in Vietnam, they don't call it 'the Vietnam War'. They call it 'the American invasion' or something similar. There needs to be a stablizing force, but it can't be us, we're too volitile. Get some other countries in there, entice them with the contracts Cheney, Bush, and their cronies are making money off of. Sometimes there are more important things than money.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The CIA and Pakistani ISI created Al CIAda. They fund Al CIAda. Even if the bad guys don't know it.


Couldn't you have at least given it a day before making your wacky claims again? Since you made the claim you now have to show the proof.



I see you havn't volunteered for Iraq duty yet. That's too bad. But then again, I don't expect you would. That's for the big boys.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I see you havn't volunteered for Iraq duty yet. That's too bad. But then again, I don't expect you would. That's for the big boys.


I see you still haven't provided your MOS or proof of service either. But then that is too much to expect from a glorified secretary.

I have already done my time there, do I need to go back just to prove a point to you? I think not.


VzH

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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Be it Iraq.. or any place on this planet where this radical faith exists is the enemy who would rather see you die than to live another moment in a world dominated as they see it by our culture of freedom.


UM_Gazz...

IRAQI RESISTANCE = AL QAEDA ?????

RESISTANTS = TERRORISTS ?????

BEWARE OF THE MISCONSUMPTIONS!!!!!!



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Ok I am seeing "change the team and everythings okie dokie, Pull out soon as we can and problem solved because other countries will take care of it for us, tell'em we know they're CIA run and they'll up and stop what they're doing.

Any of you naysayers care to work out the step by step strategic ramifications of your plans on Iraq, the surrounding countries and the U.S. - em......lets say over a five year period. Or are all of these just the pat answers they appear to be on first look.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
It's an absoulte failure built upon a flase premise for being there. Put adults back in charge and we'll get out of Iraq. Else, say hello to Korea part II.....50 years and counting.


Oh no.......I believe you are right, BT.

Regaurdless of why we are there,the fact is we are. But I very much get the feeling that the politicians are running this war, and not the military. I have been chewing on this for the last couple of days. I have been wondering why we are not using the military and military technology the way we should be. I see no reason why we need to send troops into hot spots, when we can use missles with pin point accuracy,instead. The only reason I can think of is that Bush does not want to use more military force ,since he declared the end of the war. Meaning that, if we started using airtikes again, it would be like saying oops I was wrong,the war is still on. And would just kill Bush even more in the polls.
The way things look now, I can believe,hell I think we will see US forces stationed,most likely in Kuwait for the next 50 years. The middle east version of the 38th parallel.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 02:09 PM
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That 38th Parallel - that's the extent of the Northern no fly/no drive zone in Iraq!

There are mountains of reason as to why we can't have this administration around for another 4 years, but none more damning than Iraq. It rolls up the Four Horsemen of : Death, Debt, Distrust & Doom.

Republicans need to stand up and scream about this. You've had the last 3 men who were commander-in-chief of the United States Central Command, in charge of all American troops in the Middle East say this war was ill advised, unnecessary and overally piss poorly planned.
Shwarskopf, Zinni and Franks ( while Franks is not on record yet, any one who has been in the military can take the unspoken from an action by a career officer who retires from the biggest command in his life in midstream of a war)
Remember Gen. Sinsheki? Who's estimate of money & manpower were accurate way back then, but not political expedient for Cheney/Bush?
All of these men voted for Bush & all other GOP tickets throughout their lives.
Zinni & Stormin Norman each drew up plans for taking Iraq, as would be befitting to their position. Each man's plan called for 300, 000 troops.
What did Rumsfeld send?

President Kerry will have his work cut out for him. Luckily, with Gen.Clark in Rumsfield's chair, we'll get some respect for military professionals being heard when it comes to war plans.....not Karl Roves poll of the minute management or PNAC psychos.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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BT are you talking about this Wesley Clark? or are you talking about the one that K's A's of anyone to get attention? - personally I like the Clark portrayed as being truthful below.


Kerry and Clark would hand this over to the U.N. and they would be able to skim that many more billions off the oil profits while the peacekeepers molest their children, yeah thats a solution


[Edited on 25-5-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The CIA and Pakistani ISI created Al CIAda. They fund Al CIAda. Even if the bad guys don't know it.
You wanna send a message to the real terrorists? Tell them we know who they are.
That's the thing. A lot of people don't realize the terrorist groups are created by the intelligence agencies, much the way they put dictators into power in other countries. The terrorism will not go away until the CIA decides it's time to give up Al-CIAda.



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