Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier

Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier

www.examiner.com

It's open season on gun carriers.
A case out of the First Circuit has some painful lessons for gun carriers in Georgia. A United States Circuit Court of Appeals last week upheld the constitutionality of pointing a gun at any citizen daring to carry, lawfully, a concealed weapon in public.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 2-1-2010 by ninthaxis]

This is absolutely absurd! A man has gone through the process of obtaining a permit for concealed carry, produces said permit to the officer when questioned, and had his weapon confiscated. I won't even go into the arguement that concealed carry permits are in themselves a violation of the second amendment as that is a seperate issue. I cannot believe that the court of appeals upheld the actions of this officer. The officer went well beyond his duty to serve and protect and decided to be a vigilante with a badge, claiming only he can carry a weapon on his beat. The attorney that filed this suit should not be discouraged and continue on to the Supreme Court, as this is a blatant disregard for American's Second Amendment Rights.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 2-1-2010 by ninthaxis]

If a cop jumps out with a gun drawn on me like that I will not hesitate to shoot him right between his eyes! This court has failed miserably to uphold our constitution. They should be ashamed and that cop should be in jail, or dead.

It seems to me that this cop thought he was catching someone doing illegal things, and when he wasn't, his pride kept him from admitting it. So to make himself appear right, he confiscated the attorney's firearm just because he could.

Ok, I have only posted a handful of news articles here at ATS, and I cannot believe that no one has found this article to be disturbing? This is an extremely important ruling from the court of appeals and no one has a problem with it? Just what exactly has happened to this ATS community while I was gone?

In some states if someone sees your CCW weapon or the bulge of the weapon and reports it, A cop can take the weapon and arrest you for banishing a weapon even though you never pulled it from the holster or showed it to anyone as a threat.

There have been cases of officers that did not like people having CCWs making arrests and lieing about having someone complain (after they ran the persons name and found out the person had a CCW)or making a report just so they could arrest and have someones CCW revoked.

Many of these cases are where a small town or county has isussed the CCW and big city or town cops in towns that don't like armed citicens have use this not clear law.

If my CCW permit is ever revoked, all they will have done is make me a criminal. I feel that we have the right to carry our weapons. Do you think the true criminals will give up their guns?

Originally posted by ninthaxis
Ok, I have only posted a handful of news articles here at ATS, and I cannot believe that no one has found this article to be disturbing? This is an extremely important ruling from the court of appeals and no one has a problem with it? Just what exactly has happened to this ATS community while I was gone?

I quite agree with you about everything you've said. Unfortunately that leaves me nothing to add. This is wrong in every way. Period.

Every now and then a story comes along and you breeze over the posts thinking "there's gotta be more to the story"...After doing some background on this story I'm more appalled than I was when I first read it. In both cases cited in the original source material the citizens who were carrying their firearms 100% legally had their rights violated. I hope these cases get taken further.

I don't think many will disagree that a police officer has the responsibility to contact a person carrying a gun in public, concealed or otherwise. But, this case has demonstrated very poor police procedures and behavior. I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt up until they see that the person has a CCW.

OP, as for the story, pry my cold dead fingers.

As for the site, it seems only since I joined several months ago, this place is crawling with trolls, sycophants, narcissists and CoIntelPro. Probably all of the same source.

S&F for the post and the attitude!

Wouldn't it be the same to take away drivers license from someone who hasn't broken traffic laws? Or confiscating passport from someone for the crime of travelling? Completely ridicilous. Cops were wrong and now the courts can't make it look like that. System protecting it's own.

Actually this is a much more interesting case than the "Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner" makes it sound (see findlaw link below)

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...

The "High Crime" area is the entrance of the Springfield, Mass. Courthouse where Lawyer Schubert was observed with a gun that could be seen by a cop in a car on the street. Schubert's claim was based on 4th amendment (unreasonable stop by cop) where he should have used the 2nd amendment so lawyer screws up is his claim and on appeal the appelate court wouldn't let him change his defense so lawyer loses.

Oh, and Cop Stern was sent back for retraining.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by urwatu8]

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Wouldn't it be the same to take away drivers license from someone who hasn't broken traffic laws? Or confiscating passport from someone for the crime of travelling? Completely ridicilous. Cops were wrong and now the courts can't make it look like that. System protecting it's own.

The difference is that a drivers license can be verified via police radio / computer (JDIC), per the article a CCW permit cannot be easily verified.

The officer had no way of knowing the permit was real and or valid, except for the word of the gun carrier.. which isn't nearly enough for the officer to risk his safety / the safety of the community.

Moaning about the officers actions is fine and dandy, but with the limited amount of information he had, combined with lacking the tools needed to authenticate the gun carriers claim.. he made a reasonable judgment call.

The fault here is with the state for not making verification easy for officers in the feild.

Here in Cali SOME CCW carriers can be verified by police computer:
Sworn (830PC types), Retired sworn.. and some with whats called "DMV confidentiality". Any officer who runs the drivers license / license plate of the above will see a notation that person is probably armed.. in addition there is a 24/7 365 phone number they can call....no fuss, no hassle.

Yeah, the cop was wrong. Asking a guy with a concealed weapon to produce his license is fine, but jacking him up like this was wrong.

Originally posted by Redwookieaz
If a cop jumps out with a gun drawn on me like that I will not hesitate to shoot him right between his eyes! This court has failed miserably to uphold our constitution. They should be ashamed and that cop should be in jail, or dead.

Yeah, and when get a sucking chest wound from the cop, let me know how it all worked out for you.

Craftsman.

The article makes me laugh. Can the writer seriously make it any more dramatic. Anyway, I am an officer in Georgia so let me set some of your minds at ease. We encounter hundreds of people a day who carry concealed and there is NEVER an issue. We do not seize your weapon unless there are circumstances that dictate we do. Outside of that, feel free to carry.

Now I will admit, we have complained to the state to enter peoples permits into the computer so we can simply run the card and there is NO confusion at all. The state has said they are working on it....which means...wtf knows if and when it would ever happen.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
We do not seize your weapon unless there are circumstances that dictate we do.

And what would that be, because I have no intention of giving up my gun?

reply to post by MBF


Here is an example: I get called to your house for a dispute between you and your wife. When i arrive you have a pistol on you. Yes you do have a CCP, BUT in that instance I am NOT allowing you to keep that pistol while you and her are pissed at each other and the jaw jackin continues while I am there. I have been to TOO MANY domestic disputes that turned ugly even while I was there. Emotions run high and actions sometimes come before rational thought. So I will simply hold onto the weapon until the incident is resolved.

As for your comment about no intention on giving it up, that is fine. What you and many others fail to realize is MANY LEO's are huge 2nd amendment supporters. Your not going to get trouble from most of us, but unfortunatly I am not EVERY cop so I can't dictate what each will do. Bottom line is there ARE some situations where it MAY be taken, but then returned..hence the above example as one.

reply to post by rcwj1975


If you are on a call to a problem, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that if you come up on me on the street and I have my gun and you want to take it just because I have one. My reason for this is that I am going to have a drug dealer very mad at me very soon and I am finding out that police are involved with other "businesses" he is involved in. I will not give up my gun easily, even to a cop.

reply to post by rcwj1975


You're obviously a top level cop with a more normally sized ego. The problem is that I believe you are in a small percentile of the overall police force when it comes to that trait. I think alot of people are attracted to law enforcement for the power factor, not the 'protect and serve' component.

I guess it's some kind of poetic justice that they face a certain amount of real danger in the pursuit of that power. Although, I'm sure they would make the argument that the danger is what makes them overly arrogant in the course of their duties. Kind of a chicken and egg thing.

Obviously being a law enforcement officer is a delicate balance and there just aren't enough people that are well grounded and common sensical who want to do the job. So, thanks for stepping up and serving and protecting your community.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Well I appreciate it, but so you know. My department is about 500 strong and I have been here awhile now, and I can personally tell you NONE of these guys/gals ever pulled this stuff. As I said, we will take it if it IS required, but I haven't seen it. Now I will admit, young officers tend to want to disarm you because they are new and all they ever hear or see is bad news, cops being killed, this, that, and the other, so they react that way. Once they have been around a few years and can use their sences, use their training, knowledge, and experiance, you'll see they back of a great deal...