Will Mechanical suits replace the tank?

Originally posted by Jordan River
I'm more of a mechwarrior fan than anything else. I use to play the games in the mid 90s. anywho.

Heck yea you stole my line. My personal fav was Earthsiege 2! woot for nostalgia.

reply to post by roguetechie


I'm dismissing the idea that people lack the will or ingenuity to construct something such as these, but it is just that the military of most of the western nations in Iraq and Afghanistan are finding hard enough to equip their troops with even the most basic items.

Depending upon the design, the suit an expensive risk and military commanders are already being warned off about cuts to the budgets in the future.

The problem with troops on the battlefirld at the minute is their reliance on advanced technology and service support. They are bogged down with body armour and heavy equipment leading to them becoming a slow moving target for a guy in a dishdash and go-faster slippers.

Counterinsurgency contacts on the hills and deserts should be fought light weight, and with the focus being aimed at going back to basics. Helicopter and vehicle moves have in the past telegraphed the position of approaching gunmen which has led to any element of suprise being lost and then, as a rule, being engaged by IEDs.

Not soon, I think. The cost for a suit-mech over 12 ft would be huge, and I wouldn't want to mount anything bigger than a Bushmaster on it. It took Honda 30-somthing years to develop Asimo, and even then it can hardly move, let alone running through a village with a M-2 strapped to it's shoulder. As a heavy infantry supplement, maybe, but a large human- shaped battlesuit is a much larger target than a tank, and would have much less armor. Some sort of frame w/ pneumatic arms-legs and a heavy-duty flack jacket would be awesome for the unmechenized infantry (infantry with no APCs or IFVs attached to their unit), and we've got the tech to do it now. Anything more, and, until lasers and shields come out, they'll be sitting ducks.

Originally posted by NezPerzeWolf
Not soon, I think. The cost for a suit-mech over 12 ft would be huge, and I wouldn't want to mount anything bigger than a Bushmaster on it. It took Honda 30-somthing years to develop Asimo, and even then it can hardly move, let alone running through a village with a M-2 strapped to it's shoulder. As a heavy infantry supplement, maybe, but a large human- shaped battlesuit is a much larger target than a tank, and would have much less armor. Some sort of frame w/ pneumatic arms-legs and a heavy-duty flack jacket would be awesome for the unmechenized infantry (infantry with no APCs or IFVs attached to their unit), and we've got the tech to do it now. Anything more, and, until lasers and shields come out, they'll be sitting ducks.

I honestly would like to see more protection to the troops besides bullet proof armor (only chest protective), helmet and whatever else you got. Even a "iron man" like suit would be great for shielding the troops. No matter what new armor we have nowadays it's still like running naked in a real fire fight

I can see most weapon systems going unmanned in the future.
Which in my opinion is a very bad thing.
Because the a-holes that start and run the wars will be more inclined
to start one thinking that human casualties will be low.
and they will right up until one side or the other gets the worst of it.
Then the bombs will start dropping on the cities.

so quite a few valid points have been brought up in the last few posts...

I've stated all along that there'd be a definite sizing cap (2 to 3 meters tall and 1 to 2 metric ton total weight) on battle walkers (that's what I think of them as) Anything larger in a LOS or near LOS computer controlled radar guided gun systems etc will tear it up.

Deploying them as heavy weapons / defensive platforms for infantry units in non wheel or track friendly environments: Once again I've been stating this all along... In order for battle walkers to be a useful technology you'd have to make them airdroppable and etc so they can be used by Socom and LRRP type units. This would give those units much more mobility and a much higher survivability quotient. Especially if your LRRP or SOCOM guys are in their own seven league boot equipped battlesuits. You'd then create a situation where you could be a massive threat to the OPFOR's logistics and REMF elements siphoning off combat power to guard convoys and protect bases.

ANTI Drone / Anti Close Air support capability: it would be very easy to equip one of these with a starstreak launcher over one "shoulder" and in the newest tests starstreaks have been found to be effective against MBT armor is a bonus. Now your roving infantry formations can slap at attack helos and etc without losing ground speed by carrying 100 pound plus anti tank + stinger systems. And then we get to unmanned opposition of various persuasions... an anthropomorphic combat unit that could run jump and etc would be a difficult thing for a computer controlled combat asset to deal with and predict it's movements etc. This would give human walker operators an edge (at least at first) when facing off against drones.

Field repair capability: If we build these tensegretically and with internals that are modular it would be a simple mattre of air dropping in the components needed and a few simple tools that could be carried in a small locker somewhere on the walker.

Now obviously I have something specific in mind and have put some thought into this (as well as some other topics and unit types that would make the modern military much more effective) If Y'all would like to know more or see more U2U or respond in this thread and I'll be happy to post up some of my ideas etc. I just don't want to bore people if no one is interested.


PS: The most important part of making battlewalkers viable is not allowing one of the current milspec contractors to get ahold of the idea and try and build them.... Look at the f22 198 million each... and this is even more "cutting edge" than jets I can only imagine what they'd give us. The whole idea behind battlewalkers is that they are a PART of a BALANCED FORCE STRUCTURE... Not the super unit centric budget black hole system we have now where the contractors build a gee whiz uber platform and we develop the tactics to support it...

Originally posted by Jordan River I honestly would like to see more protection to the troops besides bullet proof armor (only chest protective), helmet and whatever else you got. Even a "iron man" like suit would be great for shielding the troops. No matter what new armor we have nowadays it's still like running naked in a real fire fight

The problem for modern troops is that they are weighed down with too much equipment already making them slow, prone to heat injuries and more likely than ever to be hit by a guy in a dish-dash and go-faster flip-flops. If you have ever witnessed an urban assault by modern troops, you'ed see this is this case as they cumbersome and unable to even scale themselves over a basic obstecle such as a wall.

Until protective equipment becomes much lighter, a rerthink needs to be put into place for troops on the frontline.

that's exactly my point man...

MIT already built successfully a lower body exoskeleton that reduces the felt weight of gear carried by 75% so a soldier carrying 80 feels like they're carrying 20

AND unlike bleex it requires a constant power input of 1/3 of a watt.. less than a cellphone in other words.... Now couple this with a soldier cooling system that utilizes the stanford research into strategic blood cooling to increase human performance... and wrap the soldier in an undergarment that gathers their waste heat everywhere but over strategic cooling points which you can generate power off of the extra body heat... There's a sizeable portion of your power budget for a slightly augmented modern trooper...

I agree the current encumberance of modern troops is ridiculous and dangerous... BUT slappin em a pair of sandals a satchel of magazines and grenades and tellin them to get to work isnt the answer.

The MIT lower body exo plus blood coolers and EESTOR ultra caps plus one or two other things I've thought of would give you a soldier capable of moving at better than 30mph for one to two hour bursts and a constant 10 mph ground eating lope all day while carrying 4 times the current ammo load and with double the current protection all at a reasonable cost and with onboard stores for 5 to 7 days of operation fairly easilly and borderline off the shelf.

It's a LIE foisted on the populace by greedy contractors that capabilities like that would be Expensive or COMPLICATED... they just don't WANT to do it because they couldn't charge a big enough price per soldier suit to fit their accustomed rape pillage and burn profit margins.

The idea of a mobile, humanoid mechanical fighting machine?

Well, they certainly make for pretty pictures, but the truth is that it would be sub-optimal for combat where the ground is not hard.

The idea of a flying tank would be very appealing though. However, the real problem is that helicopters can be easily shot down by weapons that are far cheaper then it.

We need a helicopter that is capable of going 250 knots at cruise, with the same hover efficiency as a conventional helicopter, tough as the A-10, with the amount of armament as the Hind.

Develop a compound helicopter that uses Sikorsky's Advancing Blade Concept, with 6 pylons. Have two stub wings, with a total of 6 pylons, widely spaced. Use two Chinook engines. Mast mounted millimeter-wave radar and Arrowhead-level passive sensors should be a given. Enough fuel to have 1-2 hour loiter time should be there, assuming a 10-30 minute flight from the FARP and the combat zone. The helicopter should also be able to automatically detect missile launches, and deploy DIRCM and attempt automatically range, and deploy appropriate retaliation. RPG coming your way? Automatically detected, auto range and lead, and the cannon will try to shoot it down, while the pilot is cued to do evasive maneuvers.

Develop laser guided, and MMW radar guided Hydras, with a launcher designed to stuff as many of them to be mounted on one pylon. Also have shape charge warheads for these hydras, and also HE. The JAGM should be missiles meant to defeat heavy armor, the hydras to defeat light targets and lightly armored vehicles.

The M230 with it's 1200 round loadout should carried over from the Apache. Capability to carry AIM-9X on it's wingtips should also be in there. Capability to carry bombs and gunpods on the pylons should also be for sure.

Now, all of this in a compact platform, easy to fly and use. Easy to maintain, all that.

This would be the pinnacle of fire support. Armor, infantry, and SHORAD could not hold a candle to you. Even helicopters and aircraft could not harass you as much.

This is just as impractical as the mech walker, mostly due to weight and size. If one can shrink all of this into a package not much larger then the Apache, then it would redefine the attack helicopter. It would most likely make the F-35 JSF pointless in it's potential close air support role, as this helicopter would be able to get there reasonably quickly, and stay there, hovering in the distance, leveling the enemy.

Not to mention, this is still impractical as the helicopter would become the Abrams of the sky, requiring logistics support up the arse.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Hunt3rj2]

The problem with troops on the battlefirld at the minute is their reliance on advanced technology and service support. They are bogged down with body armour and heavy equipment leading to them becoming a slow moving target for a guy in a dishdash and go-faster slippers.

And riding horses and shooting 50 year old AK-47's.

Yeah,we need more 70 ton fuel guzzling tanks and exoskeletons.

Well, I'm waiting for carbon nanotube everything tanks.

It comes down to new materials in order to be able to have better weapons currently.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Hunt3rj2]

Unfourtently, the current leap in technology we would need would equate to jumping from the bow and arror to the laser gun (which could be used in tandem with the Back to the Future type Hooverboard). Thats not to say it wont happen but the timeframe will be huge and costing would mean it would be too prohibitive in the current era for the mass market of troops.

Penny pinching is as prevalent as ever in many areas of the military and even the SF does not have the 'fantasy' weapons and tools that some people seem to think they have.

Giant Robot pros:
-Can withstand bigger blasts
-Can crush buildings with a single step
-Can crush enemy soldiers by employing the death grip
-Can shoot laser from its eyes
-The Japanese version can transform into a fighter plane
-The American version can transform into anything but the kitchen sink
-Looks cool-enough that even anti-war folks would want one

Giant Robot cons:
-Production costs
-Large target
-Looks cool-enough that even anti-war folks would want one.

reply to post by Unregistered


At last, someone with a true understanding

I hope this thread disappears into the annuals of history soon as it is about to be followed by the likes of 'Could we genetically engineer dinosaur DNA a make Godzilla-type bioweapons?'

... Giant battle robots are not the subject at hand... and are a stupid idea everyone with an iota of tactical knowledge knows that.

As for Helo's.... Haahahaha our pump and dump ponzi based financial shenanigan based economy is the only thing that made helos SEEM viable for modern warfare in the first place!

The economy will NEVER be that way again, helicopters are not the answer... air support period is not the answer. It's too hard to sufficiently armor a flying machine to withstand the punishment that can be dished out by modern firepower.

As for writing off the concept as Impossible because YOU don't get it... well suit yourself... but it's like most everything the people in power now get away with the crap they do because the so called educated classes THINK they understand science and engineering.

Funny how american auto engineers have insisted that you couldn't under any circumstances build a viable air car... which is why India has air cars and we don't !!! Quit buying the hype people they are talking you into thinking their wunderkind platform centric super weapons force structure is ideal and etc .... It's not, there are better cheaper solutions everywhere we just have to find them ourselves because the people in power aren't gonna do it for us.

Although helicopters are very expensive and hard to armor, they can go places that land units can't.

It's a matter of cost: You use what you can afford, and on top of that, walking technology is still primitive. Just goes to show what a genius God is and how NOT simple our bodies are, despite Darwinian nonsense. Hateful nonsense.

reply to post by danielknight




PetMan Prototype

let's just wait till it starts jogging and running

these robots got feet, and they walk.
sort of.



[edit on 2.11.10 by toreishi]