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The Sign of Christ's Birth - Discovered.

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posted on May, 25 2004 @ 12:55 PM
Some things I've heard and read...

I too have heard that Jesus's birth was used in place of a previous Pagan (sp) or Druid holiday. Perhaps Mithra's Birthday. I had also heard that a Christian King, I think maybe Constantine, wanted to get rid of this holiday and thought what better way to do so that to decree that Dec 25 would now be remembered as Christ's birthday.

I have also heard a few things that relate to some of the traditional Christmas practices. Santa was supposedly a long white bearded spirit that would require villages to place gifts for him under a decorated tree in the middle of town. he would then fly into the village and whatever he didn't take he would then leave as gifts for the village. Over the time of the transformation of the holiday into Christian holiday the still practice of leaving gifts under a tree remained but the white bearded spirit was taken out of the picture....has anyone else heard of these stories?

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 01:01 PM

I thought most "christian" beliefs were that Christ was born on december 25th (which I believe to be wrong anyways). How exactly would you say this relates to christs birth?

Not only this, but many of the "Christian" holidays are pagan if form.
Christmas, Easter (the holiday for Ishtar), and others.
Part of the reason is that during the time Paul was preaching and converting to Christianity, a great many religions were practiced.
Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. The Essenes practiced a form of religion that was so strict in it's nature they weren't allowed to deficate on the Sabbath (Saturday, btw).
At any rate, in order to help "promote" the idea of Christianity, certain of these pagan "holy-days" were inculcated into the "church".
By doing so, it was easier for Paul to "preach the gospel" to the pagans.
Look at Paul's letter to the Corinthians, and how he "blasts" them for their behavior.
If one studies the history of the time, you'll find that Corinth is located on an isthmus. It was also a mega spot for trade, at the time, with peoples from all over passing to and fro. The temple at Corinth employed a 1,000 temple prostitutes at the time.
Just reading the Bible isn't enough, tho for some "Christians" it would seem to be.
One needs to study history, read Josephus, read the Apocrypha, and follow the words of the Psalmist, "Study, to show thy self approved".

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 01:04 PM
And you are right on all that information, religion is a very good subject of discussion if we can keep it out of fanatics, is a good subject for research and very interesting I am enlove with ancient history. You be surprise of how many people does not know anything more on religions that what their eyes can see on the bible surface.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 03:24 PM

Were you ever able to determine when the next occurance of this kind was to take place if ever?

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 03:53 PM
Jesus of Nazereth was born in what would be our month of March. Between the 3rd and the 15th.

He was born in the spring time.

There is talk of a certain flower or seed being abundant during Christs birth which point to it being in the spring

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 04:21 PM
I don't know about his birth, but astronomers claim to have pinpointed the exact hour of his death, and when he rose again. They say he died at 3pm on Friday, April 3, 33 AD. Some interesting numbers there!

Here's a link to the thread with the article. Luckily I had to post the full article in the thread as I couldn't link to it. It wouldn't be there now:

THEORIES on the exact date of Christ's death have been debated for centuries, but now two astronomers claim to have pinpointed it to the exact hour.

Liviu Mircea and Tiberiu Oproiu from the Astronomic Observatory Institute in Cluj, Romania, said yesterday that research carried out using a computer program checked against bible references showed that Christ died at 3pm on Friday, April 3, 33 AD, and rose again on Sunday, April 5 at 4am.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 04:52 PM
No proof in history that he was raised from the death either that is pure myth but in the early matt gospel his body went missing on the third day, perhaps somebody was so fixiated on him that stoled his body from the cave and then called resurrection.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 05:16 PM
Yeah, I've heard of that. There's lot of theories; The herbs taken to the tomb were for healing not embalming etc. I don't belive outright any version of events in the Bible and I don't really care either way, though it's all interesting.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 05:40 PM
You have named quite a few of the great ones. There is a pattern between each one of those names. They all seem to have the same soul, the same kind motivation, and the same works on earth.

One of my ideas is that these are manifestation of the same source - the true government of the world - As opposed to the forces of darkness that are presently on the earth, and attempting to rule it. The forces of darkness are not individual souls, but rather like a great black mass of mingled souls, whose will is shared between its members, like a group awareness, a corruption of the kind of unity and connection that the children of Heaven share.

Because of the great increase in the numbers of these kinds of souls now upon the earth, we are entering the time of prophecy, when they start to gather enough power to completely control the world, every society and institution will become filled with their numbers.

I believe that to be the reason why America is in cultural decline - the majority of her people are taken by the power of darkness, they serve it inwardly, and it corrupts their souls, minds, and hearts. It makes them numb, ignorant, and violent, and completely hostile to religion, light, and reason. They just want to consume and enjoy the most carnal of pleasures.

People who are part of this darkness won't admit it openly, though they understand what it is they are a part of, they know it is evil, they just don't care, and give into it. They go along with it because it is the greatest force they can comprehend. And they also presume that it is what rules the world, and they figure that they will do well to serve it.

That is what is killing Liberty, Reason, and all Light, and that is what was prophecied.

Each one of those great names you mentioned was sent to earth to fight against this power, which is older than all of our nations, and have been on the earth as the enemy of mankind since the beginning. Zoroaster called it Ahriman, Jesus called them the powers of darkness, whatever you call them, they are the same from era to era, and their goal is the same - to parasite off the living, to live from the energy of men, to induldge him in the kind of pleasures that are their food - all the thigns that come from the body and the lower senses, which is what they are able to receive.

Behold this scourge upon mankind - these wars are the result of this great power of darkness - the rich men and the chief men are the servants of this power, it rules them, tells them what to say, and tells them how to act. That is why people act the way they do in America, they are a conquered and subjugated people to the powers of darkness. It keeps them horrible ignorant - it doesn't even let them try to get free, it relentlessly subjugates their will, mind, and body, until they are completely dominated by thier will.

The Gnostics teach us about these forces, they existed even back then, and now we are reaching the culmination of their era.

However, there remain many of us in America that are not taken, who resist, who follow and love the light, and who have educated ourselves in the knowedge of the great ones of the past. We come from everyplace, Christians, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, gnostics, etc. But we are part of the nation of light that has always existed, and those we venerate are those illuminated ones who have visted us, and who continue to visit us, and we hope for a better and more perfect union with these great and wise forces, these children of the Almighty God.


[Edited on 25-5-2004 by Arkaleus]

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 05:47 PM
Arkaleus, I may se things a little more different than you but I have to give you credit you express your point very beautifuly for a person so feed up with humanity.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 06:10 PM
Thanks Marg, I appreciate true and honest compliments.

I am not really fed up with Humanity. I do not consider the powers of darkness to be part of humanity. I consider them to from a demoic source, a evil root, and it is not part of the family of Adam. I consider those mortals who hace collaborated with these forces to be traitors of all mankind, and I liken them to wild beasts, not human at all.

A human being is one who fights agaisnt evil, who is true and honest to the cause of Light and reason, or if he or she is simple, then they love honestly, and do not do evil in their thoughts or by their hands.

I do not respect any religion or book, but only the intention and soul of the person. People who are evil do not deserve life. They have no right to exist among us, they are parasites, thieves, evildoers. I do not consider salvation for them, I consider their presense on the earth a violent insurrection, their livnig among us as a infiltration, and their continued acitivites of evil as a a criminal act.

These are the ones who are evil all the day long, who spiritually oppress and harm others, who are filled with darkness, demons, and all manner of corrupted filth, these are not human benigs at all. Can you compare the children of God to these animals? God forbid!

Let the animals be destroyed, and the children fed, let the kingdom be established, and the children instructred in law, and in all good science, let the religion of men be the good words, and good thoughts, and good deeds of the angels, and let the forces of darkness be miserably destroyed and utterly displaced from our world. Let their servants be siezed and bound, let them be destroyed without mercy, why do you pause to slay a wild beast?

They cannot be healed, they are not able to be taught, are they to receive then grace, good keeping, and gentle preparation? Even after they have raped the earth and oppressed her children? Do they deserve any mercy at all? Do they claim an inheritance with the rest of us? As if they will take the name of Adam and say they are among our number?

Nay, but they will swallow fire into their bellies, the darkness with be their abode, and in it they will remain.

That is the manly thought, and the true idea, and it is what my generation lacks in them.

posted on May, 25 2004 @ 06:31 PM
You most have been a judge on another life and a very righteous one.

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 01:34 PM
Of course they knew about astronomy, and astrology. In Josephus' history he mentions that Abraham taught it and it's relation to God.
Job mentions Orion and the Pleidies...why would he mention something he knew nothing about. All this wisdom was not lost but passed down from generation to generation.
Christ was born Sept 29, 2bc...on Feast of Tabernacles. Dr. Gene Scott goes into great detail to pinpoint the birth of Christ. He goes through the assignment of the Priests, the history by Tertullian, and others and tackles the historical records of Christ's birth stated in Egyptian, Roman, and other histories.
The Great Pyramyd of Giza even shows Christ's birth at 2bc.....the Pyramid itself has built into it not only the history of God's word but it is an astronomical instrument.

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 01:37 PM

Originally posted by John bull 1
Here is the screenshot I promised you. It is from the Red# 4 program.

Is it just me or does that look like Missile Command?

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 04:47 PM
No way man, missile command was a little more interactive.

I get a kick out of all the other scholars who have all these other theories. They just totally forget that no one actually had to physically see the sign in heaven, they had star charts and orreries back in the old days too. Magi were accomplished astrologers, and would have known about the conjunction in Libra perhaps years in advance.

It is an amazing 4-planet conjunction, all in the consetallation that signifies justice, judgment, and measure, which was what Christ was all about?

Dig my charms?

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 06:48 PM
I don't know how good the following explanation is but it is created by the Griffith Observatory so presumably it is not too wacky. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by judge]

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 06:49 PM

Originally posted by SimpleTruth
Also, about the gospels. They were not just fishermen, but very educated men. To even be able to write obviously meant they knew their stuff. They were well learned in various studies. But one of the gospels (can't remember which one) was gifted with transcribing word for word what someone was saying and was able to keep up with that person. So his account of the various parables and speeches of Jesus should be very accurate. He would have been present and recording as Jesus was speaking.

I've never heard this. All the information I've ever heard is that the disciples were NOT educated men, as very few were in those times. And then we have the issue of writing materials. And storage. Also, the gospels were written years after the death of Chirst, if in fact it ever happened as it was said.

posted on May, 26 2004 @ 07:38 PM
I keep saying it over and over again --- The most obvious clue is the magi. The magi were Zoroastrian mages. Zoroastrians are not very well understood today.

One of the major prophecies of Zoroaster was that there would come a great angel-king into the world, who would judge the world and destroy the power of the demons. These magi saw this amazing conjunction in Libra, and immediately understood that it meant the birth of this Great One who was to judge the world.

How they found Jesus is a mystery, some say it was known among the Israelites that the Great One would be born in Bethlehem, so they probably just went around until they found the child who was born recently who was shining with amazing spiritual light.

There are many other explanations of the birth sign of Christ, but none of them would have been as significant to the birth of one who would Judge the World.

The three planets inthe middle of Libra form a perfect triangle, or fulcrum, in the middle part of the balance, which is what makes this sign so compelling. That truly was the sign of the Saoshyant, the one with the blazing sword who would come to judge the world.

And don'ttreadoneme -- what is the name of your deity? Do you serve any power other than yourself?


posted on May, 26 2004 @ 08:00 PM

TextI keep saying it over and over again --- The most obvious clue is the magi. The magi were Zoroastrian mages. Zoroastrians are not very well understood today.

You are right on the dollar the irony of it is that all the greatest writer ot the time that lived at the same time of this so call birth of the greatest man of all, including writers from the jewish, do not mention jesus at all. This are the names of some of them.
1. Philo- born before the christian era and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. Wrote an account of the jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ miraculous birth and the herodian massacre occureed. He was there when the crucifixion with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness and resurrection. This marvelous event would have been filling people with wonder Philo,s work does not mention any of it.
2. Josephus-the renowned Jewish historian, was a native of Judea. He was born in 37 A.D., and was contemporary of the Apostles. he was, for a time. Governor of Galilee, the province were Christ lived and taught. He mention every important event which occurred there during the first seventy years of the Christian era. But Christ is not even mention in his works.
3.Justus- of Tiberius was a native of Christ's own country Galilee, and his work is also silence.


Because Jesus actually did not had anything amazing after all.

posted on May, 27 2004 @ 04:29 PM
Part of the big problem with trying to track down strange anomalies that coincided with what would be the birth of Jesus is that not only is Dec 25th not an accurate birth date, but the year itself is also wrong.

When the Romans developed the first calender it was decided that the begining would be dated from the birth of Jesus at least a thousand years had already passed and no one was sure exactly when Jesus was born. Efforts were made to target a date and the date we have today (2004) is really a "best guess" effort of the Romans. Many people believe that the date is off by 7 to 10 years making the real date 2011-2014. And I have even read research that said the date of Jesus birth could be off by as much as 500 years, making todays date around 2504.

I think for the first several hundred years a date in the springtime was celebrated for the birth of Jesus.

[Edited on 27-5-2004 by zerotime]

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