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The Sign of Christ's Birth - Discovered.

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posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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I have another good thing to share - The sign of Christ's Birth. It wasn't a single star, or anything like a supernova or comet or UFO. It was a very rare and wonderful conjunction of planets in the consteallation of Libra, which is the Balance. It appeared as a perfect triangle of planets right where the fulcrum of the balance would be, and it appeared in the East, right above the rising sun. It was in November of 1 AD on our current calender. Persians had star charts and would have been able to predict this event well in advance, and it would have been very hard to see, only those with knowledge of star and planet movements would have known about it, because the light of the rising sun would have made it hard to see. You would only see about it if you have a very high vantage point and a clear view of the horizon.

This is the only astronomical event that has the correct timing, position, and meaning to the ancient astronomers. What better sign for a King who was to judge the world than the fulcrum of the balance.

I will try to get a link to an image of this event from my astronomy software up soon.

I am certain this is the correct sign. It is just too rich with symbolic meaning and also, if you count them, there are twelve stars total inthe event, and the moon is right next to them. That is what is probably meant by the mystery of the woman standing on the moon with the twelve stars on her head. Cool huh!





[Edited on 25-5-2004 by John bull 1]




posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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I would definitely like to see the link you mentioned.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:40 PM
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I thought most "christian" beliefs were that Christ was born on december 25th (which I believe to be wrong anyways). How exactly would you say this relates to christs birth?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:40 PM
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There's one teeny tiny problem here -- such a star would appear to be "overhead" the entire equitorial belt of the Earth (from about 10 degrees below the equator to about 20 degrees above the equator.)

Example: Go outside tonight. Look at the moon. Watch it for several hours. What city/town on Earth is it "over the head" of? Now, watch it for several nights.

What city is it over (latitude and longitude)?



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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How can they tell if this is true when the four gospels, are the main sources available of Jesus. This gospels are not biographical material about jesus. This gospels were about jesus as a teacher and healer.


The Stories of his birth, death and resurrection were added later. So how can they posibly be correct.

The gospels of matthew and luke were theological and christological additions made by church scribes when these to Gospels were put together and supernatural circunstances were given to his birth.

In reality we really don,t know when jesus was born.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 10:52 PM
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It is an odd story how the "wise men" (Zoroastrian Mobeds) were able to "Find" Jesus. Unless you made an allotment for supernatural forces guiding these men, it just isn't possible. I think the truth of the matter is that the Persian religion at that time, which was the fire-temple builders called Zoroastrians, knew a great deal about stars, signs, and astronomy, and such a dramatic conjunction in such a meaningful constellation like Libra would have certainly meant a great thing to them. They saw this event, either with their own eyes, or more likely, with the star charts of their astronomers (Yes, they had very detailed of the heavens then!) and saw that it was in the east.

Someone mentioned before that the size of the event was very big, but it was not that big at all, it was right over the sun, DUE EAST, covering a aspect perhaps not much bigger than 10* of sky. The conjunction was contained entirely in the constellation Libra, which isn't very big. I promise I will get the screenshot up tonight.

Also, you are taking the Bible too literally, the gospels are indeed mostly just dialogues and ancedotes of Jesus' teachings with the apostles. You have to know something about astronomy and how the ancients looked at the heavens to really understand the significance of what this conjucntion meant. The Gospels were written by non astronomers, non scientists, and even just plain fishermen. They probably had no idea of what the Zoroastrians saw, or even what a conjunction was, they probably never even SAW it. But the wise men of the day would have CERTAINLY noticed it, no matter what land they were from, because it is such a remarkable conjunction.

If you are stuck in the Christmas Pagaent minset of a little bright star sitting over the manger, then you need to get real. The astrologers of ancient times saw meaning in the movement of the heavens, the motions of stars were held to indicate certain events on the earth, and certain combinations and conjunctions were especially powerful portents, and this is one of the most powerful symbol ever to appear to the ancient world.

Even if there really were three gents from the Orient who travelled afar, this is the ONLY sign that would have meant ANYTHING to the Zoroastrians, who were perhaps the most advanced of all the Astronomers. They are the ones who named most of the stars, and we still use them today.

Zoroastrians were expecting a great savior to be born called Saoshyant. His symbol would be one of great Justice, power, and equity. This conjunction was a very unique one, there hasn't been one like it at any time in our recorded history. If I could just show you the picture, you will immediately see what I mean.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Logic
I thought most "christian" beliefs were that Christ was born on december 25th (which I believe to be wrong anyways). How exactly would you say this relates to christs birth?


Negative...Simple thinking would disprove this quickly...If Christ was born on the 25th...why does the new year start a week later?....See....makes sense now...in reality...more scholars believe Christ was born sometime in the spring...the 25 was another "religious" holiday that was highly practice way back when....so to make things simple...they tied in Christs birth with Dec. 25th...and people accepted it...



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:21 PM
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Very intriguing Arkaleus. If you are accurate about your information, then this really does make a lot of sense. Could you possibly see how often that line-up happens and when the next one is due???

Also, about the gospels. They were not just fishermen, but very educated men. To even be able to write obviously meant they knew their stuff. They were well learned in various studies. But one of the gospels (can't remember which one) was gifted with transcribing word for word what someone was saying and was able to keep up with that person. So his account of the various parables and speeches of Jesus should be very accurate. He would have been present and recording as Jesus was speaking.



How can they tell if this is true when the four gospels, are the main sources available of Jesus. This gospels are not biographical material about jesus. This gospels were about jesus as a teacher and healer.


The Stories of his birth, death and resurrection were added later. So how can they posibly be correct.

The gospels of matthew and luke were theological and christological additions made by church scribes when these to Gospels were put together and supernatural circunstances were given to his birth.

In reality we really don,t know when jesus was born.



Well, I've never heard about luke and matthew being added later.........could you elaborate on that please? Anyway, yes, the gospels were not there during the birth of Jesus obviously, but when He started preaching and fulfilling His purpose and traveling etc., they were there for the most part, at least one I'm sure at most times. Also, how would the authors of the New Testament know about His birth and whatnot? Well because of the Holy Spirit and they were basically only dictating what God was communicating through them. I'd liken it to maybe being hypnotized. Someone who is hypnotized can still move around and at times can be aware of what they're doing, but an outside person is basically controlling them and deciding what they do for them. If a human can hypnotize someone, how much more could God do through someone?

Also, I don't think many christians actuallyt believe that Dec 25th is the literal day Jesus was born, but a day was just chosen because it is understood that we don't know the exact date. And it happened to be Dec 25th.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:38 PM
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Interesting and insightful post Arkaleus


I'm looking forward for the picture you promised to post.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 12:52 AM
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I got the picture up - please move this discussion to the new thread!

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by Arkaleus]



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 12:58 AM
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NO new thread!! Keep it here please.



The *Star* of Christ's Birth - REDISCOVERED w/ picture

Look in my earlier post the sign of Christ's Birth Discovered if you want a detailed explanation.

Here is the screenshot I promised you. It is from the Red# 4 program.

www.xmission.com...

This speaks for itself. What other sign in the heavens would indicate the birth of one who was coming to judge the world? Libra is the set of scales, a balance. There hasn't been such a unique conjunction in all of our written history. Is it a coincidence that it should be on 11/1/0001 AD?

It doesn't take a astrophysicist to see the correlation here.

This would have been interpreted by the Zoroastrians (the Magi) as the signal of a very great person being born. They were expecting such a person to come, his name was called Saoshyant. That is who they thought Jesus was, and why they honored him. Zoroastrianism was the world's first major monotheistic religion, and Zoroaster was a prototype of Christ.

Students of history and Astrologers will instantly recognize this star grouping as significant. I wonder why such an obvious thing has not been widely known?


Arkaleus



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 07:08 AM
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TextAlso, about the gospels. They were not just fishermen, but very educated men


Wrong apostles told the gospels generetion by generetion the scribes later on wrote them.


Christians stole Dec.25 From the roman celebration of Sol invictus- the Sun unconquered.


[Edited on 25-5-2004 by marg6043]



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 07:57 AM
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TextIt is an odd story how the "wise men" (Zoroastrian Mobeds) were able to "Find" Jesus


Zorastrianism: Can be call the blueprint for Christianity and Judaism. They roused the need for the hatred of unworthy things. they discovered the devil, and paradise, the last judment, and the resurrection of the death, Christianity stole some of their beliefs you can also find some of this influenzes in the muslims also.

If the persian empire ahve not being stoped Zoroastrianism and not Judeo Christianity will very likely will have been our religion.

If people were able to study religion in a more comparative way our understanding of Jesus and God concept will be more spread and it will stop the religious illiteracy in this country. But we can not even teach our children history the correct information you will be stone if ever sugest to teach religion as an academic discipline.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:07 AM
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December 25th was Mithra's Birthday.
He was the Sun God that the Ancient Roman's worshipped.
Mysteries of Mithra


Another good link to this is...

Borndigital.....Paul



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:13 AM
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Marg is correct about the history of Zoroastrianism (good research, Marg!) though I'd disagree with the conclusion that studying all religions tends to make one Christian (it seems to have an equally likely chance of converting you to atheism, agnosticism, Paganism (in all its forms), or Buddhism.) And we do have schools where religion is taught -- though not comparative religion. That has to wait till college.

I took a number of courses on religion in a Baptist college (including world religions.) It *was* quite awhile ago, though.

Yes, the gospels were all written long after Jesus' death (earliest was, if memory serves, Mark in 65AD or so), and the Bible was put together in about 360 AD. There were a number of books that were not put in it and a number that were left in that were quite controversial (Song of Solomon (a rather smutty love poem, to be truthful)) and Revelation (they felt it wasn't prophetic, but rather the wigged-out imagination of someone who spent entirely too much time in the desert, contemplating bushes.)

Arakelius is right -- the astrologers might have decided from their tables and charts that a certain configuration meant Bethlehem, but there's no proof of it. And a sky event is so large that it can be seen to be "overhead" for a great deal of the surface of the Earth. Planets are far away; not close things, hovering a few hundred feet above a town.

As for the evidence of Jesus' birth NOT being December 25th, it's pretty clear. The 25th is simply a festival that the Christians adopted (the festival of the birth of Mithras, a Son of God who had very similar attributes to Jesus (including the resurrection thing.)

The gospels themselves talk about shepherds watching flocks at night. The only time you get shepherds out in the fields overnight is during warmer weather -- other clues indicate that it was during lambing time, which is March-April.

The timing of the New Year has nothing to do with Christian religion and everything to do with the Winter Solstice and solstice celebrations.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:22 AM
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Text though I'd disagree with the conclusion that studying all religions tends to make one Christian (it seems to have an equally


I am sorry, but I think you misunderstud I do not consider myself religious I see religion as a very good subject for study the reason I said we should teach religion is not only christianity but all the religions in the world and the origins that will definitly clarify some of the misconception of some beliefs.


The book I got my research (I love reading) is call The book your church doesn't want you to read by Tim C. Leedom is very old edition and I got an used version in the net. The last edition was in 1993.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
Here is the screenshot I promised you. It is from the Red# 4 program.

I'm amused at the typo. I hope it's a typo....

There hasn't been such a unique conjunction in all of our written history. Is it a coincidence that it should be on 11/1/0001 AD?
You're not running your program back far enough. The conjunction has occurred in the past and will occur in the future.


It doesn't take a astrophysicist to see the correlation here.

Personal picky point here: an astrophysicist WOULDN'T see a correlation. They'd run a set of tables and point out all the other similar conjunction.

Now, an astrologer might buy into that. However, astrologers are NOT astronomers (an astronomer wouldn't buy your logic, either) nor are they astrophysicists.

I've done work as a professional astrologer, so I do know something about it -- and I hang over on the Bad Astronomy board so I know a bit about astronomers and astrophysicians.

As to the data:


Students of history and Astrologers will instantly recognize this star grouping as significant. I wonder why such an obvious thing has not been widely known?


If you go to astro.com you can do an event chart for 11/01/0001 -- in just the same way astrologers have done charts for thousands of years (you have to ignore planets beyond Saturn because they didn't know about them.) This chart shows the conjunction -- but shows the sun and moon conjunct in Scorpio -- not Libra.

Now... to the astrologer, Scorpio is the sign of sex and sensuality. Speaking as someone who made their living casting astrological charts, the cluster would be GREAT for someone who wanted to enter the porn industry. It's a lousy chart for a ruler, however. Scorpio isn't a judge or balanced (WAY too much temper.)

Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Jupiter are in Libra -- so communications would be fair and balanced but they'd be wishy-washy in love (not wanting to hurt anyone) and poor strategists and a bit wishy-washy about wealth. Saturn's in Cancer (just wandering out of Gemini), a combination that tends to make you stick close to home in your old age.

You could have picked up a large cluster of planets plus the moon conjunct in Libra a month (October 6th) or so before your chosen date. However, this isn't the sign of the ruler/leader.

I should also point out that even back then, there were a lot of people on the planet and a lot of people are born everyday. So there would have been thousands of baby boys (hudreds in the area) with the same birthdate. In a town as large as Bethlehem, you could have had as many as 15 baby boys born on the same date and near the same hour.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I am sorry, but I think you misunderstud I do not consider myself religious I see religion as a very good subject for study the reason I said we should teach religion is not only christianity but all the religions in the world and the origins that will definitly clarify some of the misconception of some beliefs.


Ooops! My bad!! I agree -- teaching about other religions would hopefully make folks more tolerant.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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I was unable to find another conjunction like this one in the timespan my software could reproduce. It is very unique. Due to the precession of the earth, I would imagine this cycle is a very very long one.



posted on May, 25 2004 @ 12:48 PM
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Other divine birth that match havenly sign and had received divine homors, they had been worshipped as Gods, or sons of God. They have been called Christs, Saviors, Messiahs, or Mediators, some of them also from virgin births and many of them were crucified this are some of them.

Chrishna of hindostan, Budha of India, Salivahana of Bermuda, Zulis also Osiris and Orus of Egypt, Odin, Crite of caldea, Zoraster and Mithra, Baal and taut, Indra of Tibet, Bali, Jao of Nepal, Wittoba, Thammuz of Syria, ATys, Zamolxis, Alcides of Thebes, Mikado of Sintoos, Hesus or Eros, Thor son of Odin, The teacher of Plato, Adonis, Ixion, Prometheus, Mahomet of arabia.

Take your pick, if you read on them you will find a similarity on all of them.



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