If the Conservative Movement succeeds then What? My response!

This was my response, to a fellow member here on ATS, to what needs to be done if the conservative movement sweeping the nation would succeed!

I would like anyone that has comments or problems with my breakdown to give me a hand on polishing it up. I will take any and all suggestions seriously. I feel we need a specific breakdown of what we stand for. I am glad the member posted the thread.

Please no bashing, just simple critisism and we can polish this up. I hope everyone gives me a hand. Even the people from the two headed snake known as the Repubs and Dems. SORRY. Had to throw that in.

All modifications to the original draft by endisnighe, are in yellow, thanks to the legislation riders by the ATS crew
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1. Reinstate the Constitution; any and all statutes that restrict or go against the given rights of the States or the Citizens are instantly abolished.
   
   
2. Institute a Nationalized banking system controlled by Congress (like it was meant to) and all profits from said system to be given directly to the states directly and split according to each states direct deposits in said State's Banks. Monetary system to be based on a conglomerate of commodities such as oil, gold, corn, soybean and other type commodities with real world value.edit add-it was pointed out that congress has the right to coin money, not set a national bank modification necessary here, currently in progress
   
   
3. Institute a time type regulation of the stock market. No multiple trading of the same stock on the same day type thing. No mass manipulation of stocks like the Goldman Sachs computer software allowed even near the stock market.
   
   
4. All assets of the Federal Reserve and any and all banks and individuals that have stolen money from the American People (e.g. Paulson with his sale of GS stock at a value of $300 million) to be used to pay off as much of the debt as possible.
   
   
5. Instant removal of all Federal Agencies that are null and void in a Constitutional Government. That right there will eliminate 70% of the Federal Problem. Oh, and all contracts that exist right now between the Fed and Private Corps to be reassessed and open bidding will be reinstituted. No favoritism allowed.
   
   
6. Removal of all our troops from all foreign soil except where they want us to stay. If they want us to stay, they will pay us 75% of all operational costs. This to be phased out over a 5 year period. We will draw back to a defensible perimeter and we will quit our Empire type control of the world.edit add-a non interference treaty to be signed by our government and any country that wants to join in can, not necessary
   
   
7. All illegal immigrants will be given a 6 month window to sell all assets they do not want to take with them. They will be allowed to hold their current positions as long as that window remains open. We will pass a law that will give a fine of .5% of value of the business for hiring an illegal after this time. Also for each illegal hired, the corporate owner and board will be given a 60 day minimum sentence. Each additional offense the punishment will be tripled. End of problem with illegal aliens. And we did not even have to punish the poor illegals.edit add-immigration issue is up in the air, need to cuss and discuss
   
   
8. All future immigration will be only allowed as placement for employment. If unemployment is high, no immigration will be allowed.edit add-immigration issue is up in the air, need to cuss and discuss
   
   
9. All companies that want to be global, so be it. Your products will be taxed to an equivilent amount as if they were being made here. Foreign products will be allowed for the same restrictions. Any tariffs placed on our products are fine as long as they follow the same guidelines. Otherwise an exact tarriff will be placed on that countries material as well.edit add-tarriff system needs to be researched, I believe some type of protection from multinational companies needs to be researched
   
   
10. Energy exploration will be allowed unabated but all energy profits originally going to the Fed will go to the people instead. All avenues of alternative energy will be explored.
    
    
11. All secrets not directly necessary for the absolute safety of the nation will be released immediately. Total transparency will be required and any and all attempts to circumnavigate this will end in jail time and expulsion from the country. FINAL.
    
    
12. Corporations are not people they will not be given the same rights as people.edit add-Therefore people can lobby but corporations cannot.
    
    
13. Complete idiocy like the Monsanto killer gene GMO's will be outlawed. All the crazy agricultural regulations will be reassessed.
    
    
14. Term limits, balanced budget, lobbyists, pac removal and other measures will be installed to control out of control career criminals.
    
    
15. The Original 13th Amendment will be researched and if found to be thrown out illegally, it will be reinstated along with the one they replaced it with. If you want an explanation-GOOGLE IT!
    
    
16. Corporate laws and regulations will be completely reassessed. And ALL CORPORATE LAWS PERTAINING TO CITIZEN'S WILL BE REMOVED!
    
    
17. Any and all future laws will be required to be posted on line 7 days prior to any vote. All laws will be required to be in final form and will be required to written in common sense and common law verbiage. No pork will be allowed to be attached to any bill. Pork will be voted on on a per case basis period.edit add-constitutional justification necessary also, if no justification-no law; additionally the submitted bill will only have related language pertinent to the legislation at hand to eliminate riders;also there is a limit to the length of a bill of 250 pages, if at anytime it becomes necessary to exceed this limit, the display period will be extended another 7 days for each and every additional 50 pages
    
    
18. A flat tax based on sales will be introduced. Food items will be exempt. Clothes items to a value of $100 dollars will be exempt to a limit of a certain value per year. Every transaction will be assessed and rates will need to be determined. This will be a high value because of the next clause.edit add-Tax system to be ironed out, I suggest a flat tax system one source of income for the government so we know what our effective tax rate is; additionally someone suggested the Fair Tax as a possibility, I do not know how the Prebate works in that legislation so I suggest the inclusion of the food, clothes and rental adjustments to help the poor
    
    
19. All property taxes will be eliminated. When you purchase your item, you own it! The government is not allowed to continually tax you forever on something. PERIOD!edit add-Tax system to be ironed out, I suggest a flat tax system one source of income for the government so we know what our effective tax rate is
    
    
    
20. The income tax will remain in effect for people making over $100,000/year and this will be applied to the existing debt only until paid off, then will be phased out.edit add-Tax system to be ironed out, I suggest a flat tax system one source of income for the government so we know what our effective tax rate is
    
    
    
21. All federal licensing, regulations, permitting will be abolished if not directly related to interstate commerce.
    
    
22. The interstate commerce clause will be rewritten and will state that this cannot be used for all purposes!
    
    
23. The original intention of the US Constitution will be researched and a meeting of all 50 state governors will come together and hammer out an agreement on the details of writing into the Constitution an amended clarification to the original as an Amendment.
    
    
24. This same body will also write the rates and clarify the flat tax amendment.
    
    
25. edit add-The War on Drugs is a byproduct of the un Constitutionality of statutes removing your freedom of liberty!
    
    
26. edit add-some way to phase out the welfare system in our country has been submitted as a suggestion. I feel it needs to be discussed. If people want a federal type retirement/insurance/disability type system it should be an opt in/opt out type system-discussion required on the possible solution to this monstrosity
    

edits- too numerous to list they are in yellow


[edit on 1/2/2010 by endisnighe]

[edit on 1/2/2010 by endisnighe]

Great responses so far, Don't have the time to read the entirety but I will post my comments and concerns later... S+F!

Not sure I completely agree with your immigration concerns, b/c we need to collectively move past this point in our world. Travel should be a freedom granted to anyone and anything without restriction IMO. I am not a believer that somebody should be restricted by their freedoms, simply because they were born in a different land. I will elaborate more later..

Again, great thread!





[edit on 2-1-2010 by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx]

Instead of reinterpreting and restating the original Constitution, why not have a convention and just rewrite it? We've honored our heritage long enough; it's hopelessly outdated. The old document can act as the template for the new. You can modify or augment the existing principles, but you can't take anything away.

25. Make possession of and proficency with a firearm mandatory.

26. mandatory to vote.

27. high school dropouts must join military or community service jobs.

28. if you expel illegal immigrants maybe the multitude of unemployed government workers can fill those positions.

29. end lobbying and pac's and special interest groups.




[edit on 2-1-2010 by fmcanarney]

I'd like to see the lobbying done away with. There's way too many people not of our nation and actually working against our nation, with way too much influence in our halls of government. The tax issue can pretty much go back to how it was originally cited.

reply to post by John_Brown


Yes, I was thinking the same thing about the Constitutional Congress.

Think of this as a mini-Constitutional Congress and let me know what you would like to see.

Yes, the augmentation is necessary. That is kind of where I was going with it.

Give me a breakdown of what you think needs to be added and what needs to be taken away.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Well the lobbyist part was the item about how corporations are not people. People can lobby all they want, but not corporations.

12. Corporations are not people they will not be given the same rights as people.

But I dislike the tax problem of the thousands of different ways that they tax us. That is how they manipulate their revenue. Where we have no idea what our actual effective tax rate is. I also hate not owning property. A flat sales tax with no property tax eliminates their ability to seize property.

Also, what do you mean original taxes. At what point in history?

Originally posted by fmcanarney
25. Make possession of and proficency with a firearm mandatory.

I like this one, will wait to see if everyone here likes it before adding.

26. mandatory to vote.

Adding this one

27. high school dropouts must join military or community service jobs.

No mandatory military unless a war has been declared, then maybe everyone can be drafted, that will require a firm involvement in government.

28. if you expel illegal immigrants maybe the multitude of unemployed government workers can fill those positions.

Love that!

29. end lobbying and pac's and special interest groups.

To this see item 12 Corporations are not people, lobbying can be done by people, not corporations.

Nothing should be mandatory.

Mandatory voting would be a disaster almost immediately. How much is a bitter vote cast in spite really worth?

Enough of this authoritarian garbage.

reply to post by endisnighe

27. high school dropouts must join military or community service jobs.

No mandatory military unless a war has been declared, then maybe everyone can be drafted, that will require a firm involvement in government.

Isn't this a bit detrimental to the concept of 'freedom'? Wouldn't making anything mandatory instantly turn a free country in an authoritarian (or perhaps even totalitarian) form of government. It would breed instant dissent.

Definitely agree on the idea of abolishing corporate lobbying!

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Someone336]

Preface - I am Libertarian

Originally posted by endisnighe

Reinstate the Constitution; any and all statutes that restrict or go against the given rights of the States or the Citizens are instantly abolished.

This isn't prudent to do instantly. There are tens of thousands of pages of law and code to go through. This would require a massive undertaking that would require time. Reasonable removal would need to be proposed item for item.

i.e. Social Security - As of date X, all citizens and legal residents over the age of 45 continue to pay/receive benefits. Those between the ages of 18 and 45 will have the choice to "opt out" provided they agree to forfeit all funds contributed hitherto. All those under 18 never pay and will never qualify for benefits.

Institute a Nationalized banking system controlled by Congress (like it was meant to) and all profits from said system to be given directly to the states directly and split according to each states direct deposits in said State's Banks. Monetary system to be based on a conglomerate of commodities such as oil, gold, corn, soybean and other type commodities with real world value.

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures"

I was not aware that it was the purview of the Federal Government to create a national bank. In fact, I believe that there have been a few attempts at creating a national bank, which was dismantled each time.

I would need more support for this to even consider something of the sort (which would be very slim).

Instant removal of all Federal Agencies that are null and void in a Constitutional Government. That right there will eliminate 70% of the Federal Problem. Oh, and all contracts that exist right now between the Fed and Private Corps to be reassessed and open bidding will be reinstituted. No favoritism allowed.

I would suggest that there be no contracting for government work. The government may, of course, purchase products from private corporations, but that's not to say they should contract with them to do the work that is rightfully the work of the government.

Removal of all our troops from all foreign soil except where they want us to stay. If they want us to stay, they will pay us 75% of all operational costs. This to be phased out over a 5 year period. We will draw back to a defensible perimeter and we will quit our Empire type control of the world.

I would suggest a shorter time period. We could remove all troops from non-US soil in a matter of 1-2 years, including "active combat zones"

This is something I highly suggest, but it can not come alone. It must come with a promise that we will not meddle in the matters of other nations, but reserve the right to incinerate any country that dares to attack us without the moral obligation to rebuild that country.

We will, however, need to continue cooperation with other nations in criminal activity (terrorism).

All illegal immigrants will be given a 6 month window to sell all assets they do not want to take with them. They will be allowed to hold their current positions as long as that window remains open. We will pass a law that will give a fine of .5% of value of the business for hiring an illegal after this time. Also for each illegal hired, the corporate owner and board will be given a 60 day minimum sentence. Each additional offense the punishment will be tripled. End of problem with illegal aliens. And we did not even have to punish the poor illegals.

This is counter to the rest of the list and should be eliminated. The prime reason these people are a problem is that we must be "documented" in order to pay the right amount and to receive our entitlements.

Eliminate this need and you eliminate the need to remove the people. They are an effective workforce that should not be thrown out with the bathwater.

All future immigration will be only allowed as placement for employment. If unemployment is high, no immigration will be allowed.

I'd suggest the other way around actually. I'd say that we allow most people in, however if they are caught committing any kind of serious crime, they are recorded, removed from the country, and banned from return.

All companies that want to be global, so be it. Your products will be taxed to an equivilent amount as if they were being made here. Foreign products will be allowed for the same restrictions. Any tariffs placed on our products are fine as long as they follow the same guidelines. Otherwise an exact tarriff will be placed on that countries material as well.

I would suggest that the standard tariff system is fine. American protectionism isn't always the wisest option. Positive economic conditions make business stay, punishment and over-regulation make it leave (see US flag merchant shipping if you want an example).

Energy exploration will be allowed unabated but all energy profits originally going to the Fed will go to the people instead. All avenues of alternative energy will be explored.

I would provide no benefit to either side. It is not the responsibility of the government to choose sides really. What the consumer wants the consumer will buy.

I'd also suggest that ecological preservation is done well through simple property rights.

Any and all future laws will be required to be posted on line 7 days prior to any vote. All laws will be required to be in final form and will be required to written in common sense and common law verbiage. No pork will be allowed to be attached to any bill. Pork will be voted on on a per case basis period.

I would also suggest that the Constitutional Justification for said law also be posted and debated.

A flat tax based on sales will be introduced. Food items will be exempt. Clothes items to a value of $100 dollars will be exempt to a limit of a certain value per year. Every transaction will be assessed and rates will need to be determined. This will be a high value because of the next clause.

This isn't much of an improvement unless the flat number is zero. There is no reason for the American people to be taxed on their personal income, earnings, or possessions by the Federal Government.

I have yet to hear a compelling case that it is needed at all.

All property taxes will be eliminated. When you purchase your item, you own it! The government is not allowed to continually tax you forever on something. PERIOD!

This is a State issue, so no Federal is needed or would be Constitutional.

The income tax will remain in effect for people making over $100,000/year and this will be applied to the existing debt only until paid off, then will be phased out.

This defeats any type of equal protection under the law. Income tax simply isn't needed.

We have the ability to cancel our debt at any time. Who, exactly, would stop us?

The original intention of the US Constitution will be researched and a meeting of all 50 state governors will come together and hammer out an agreement on the details of writing into the Constitution an amended clarification to the original as an Amendment.

This is not needed. The "original intention" does not need to be researched. You can find out almost all of it simply by reading it. At best, some terms could be changed due to subtle changes in word definition. The term should be translated.

Also, if you need additional insight, read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. That pretty much sums it up.

This same body will also write the rates and clarify the flat tax amendment.

Again, you'd have to make a compelling case that this is needed. To me, it's removing the tiger and letting in a lion. If you want to remove the federal government's power, detach them from our wallets directly.

Mandatory voting-added thanks to fmcanarney

Mandatory anything is simply antithetical to liberty.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by KrazyJethro]

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Alright, I thought I added that too early. Removed!

reply to post by Someone336


Okay everyone, MANDATORY IS OUT!

Originally posted by endisnighe

Originally posted by fmcanarney
25. Make possession of and proficency with a firearm mandatory.

I like this one, will wait to see if everyone here likes it before adding.

Removing the right of Americans to choose whether or not they want to own firearms is a terrible idea and is the start of a slippery slope into a military state.

reply to post by KrazyJethro


Regarding the statutes line by line removal. Yes, that would be necessary, but needs to be done as quick as possible.


Yes, somehow the SS Medicare Medicaid crap has to be addressed.


As for the National Bank, it may not specifically state it but I am trying to come up with a way to allow a system that would still allow a type of lending institution that could continue. Yes, ironing out of details have to be done.

As for contracting, I was speaking of purchases the gov needs like military aircraft and such. Also federal projects.

Agree on the removal of troops immediately in areas of conflict now. But it would take 5 years total to remove all of our bases and troops throughout the world. Equipment, sales of the land etc etc etc. And yes, retaliatory measures absolutely and non interference absolutely.

I must disagree with you on the immigration issue. If we were to institute this, everyone in the world will be knocking on our door. Some modification could be ironed out here. I do believe in immigration, just not illegal immigration.

As for protectionism. I mean to completely level the playing field. If a company can go to China and pay their labor $20 a week, how are we supposed to compete with that. Otherwise shutdown and totally isolate.

You do know that property rights as of now do not include the mineral rights? If you find oil on your property, it does not mean you own it.

Excellent point on the Constitutional justification being posted also.

Where does the Fed than get its money? I know we are eliminating a lot of their requirements. But in todays world we do need at least a standing army.

Okay, as long as all property taxes stay with the state and the Dept of Ed is elimated.

If we eliminated the debt, the dollar would crash and we would need that not to happen while we transition to a commodity based monetary system.

That is what I meant by a clarification. Our current governmental types love to twist things. We just need to make it untwistable.

Also have removed the mandatory, do not even know why I placed it, maybe the 26 hours of no sleep.

edit to add reply to

[edit on 1/2/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by Kaploink


Yes, I am beginning to see any mandatory is getting me crap.

For anyone else-Mandatory is out!

Very nice. I had a chance to read the 24 that are available as of this post and I will say that I think it all sounds good. The choice to remove mandatory is good as well as true freedom can never have a mandatory law.

I believe as an amendment should be added the following idea by littlebunny in his post Our Republic Is Broken, A Constitutional Army Requested about a fourth branch of government. I hope he doesn't mind me posting it.

Originally posted by littlebunny

The Law of 13 is simple. All government bodies will be overseen by a jury of men and women randomly selected from our population. They are to serve two and half years. The Law of 13’s sole purpose is to defend individual freedoms from oppressive government officials or illegal laws. The Law of 13 will oversee all levels of government, from Elected Officials in Local, State, and Federal positions. The Law of 13 must also oversee all Local, State and Federal Institutions. No person in Government will have a higher ranking or Standing when it comes to National Governance then the Law of 13. The Law of 13 will have its own Enforcement who must swear and affirm an oath to The People, yet can Never be used against the People… The Law of 13 will Protect and Enforce individual Freedoms. If a government official or government entity is found guilty of violating a citizens rights, infringing or attempting to infringe upon the freedoms of its citizens, or purposely trying to subjugate freedoms guaranteed under our Constitution… then all government employees or representatives who are responsible will receive Judgment… That punishment will include a complete forfeit of 90 percent of their personal wealth, and may include, being put to death.

The Law of 13 will also oversee Businesses and Corporations. All Businesses and Corporations will be free to do as they please and make as much profit as they please, as long as they do not violate another persons freedoms, or purposely endanger another persons life, or well being. Nor can any Business or Corporation Knowingly Lie, Steal or Cheat another person out of their own personal property or fortune. If a Business or Corporation is found guilty by the Law of 13, the Owner and/or The CEO, the Vice-CEO, and all managers and board members who knowingly violate another persons freedoms, life, well being, or Knowingly lie, steal or cheat another person, group or company… each who is found culpable and/or guilty will lose 90 percent of their personal wealth, and may be put to death.

I think the idea is sufficient how it is, besides the punishment part. That is to be debated, however, a trial by jury should suffice as it is a right.


I have nothing further to add at the time but I will try to think of anything else that might be needed.

reply to post by gwydionblack


You know that is an amazing idea.

Please U2U them and ask if I can use it.

Kudos will be given and all links installed.

What about "the war on drugs?" one of the biggest reasons i left the Republican party, the conservative movement and abandoned being called a right winger is because i had been arrested for having a small bag of plants on me. I think it is absolutely insane that people can get legally addicted to deadly drugs such as Vicodin or Percocet yet if a cancer patient or a man coming home from work wants to smoke some cannabis before they go to bed ( and cannabis is a VERY safe drug, although like any drug there is potential for psychological addiction) they are all of a sudden public enemy number 1.

reply to post by DeathShield


You do understand that the war on drugs is a byproduct of the Unconstitutionality of statutes that infringe on your sovereign rights?

Once the statutes that are unConstitutional are abolished-have all the fun you want-as long as it does not hurt another or infringe upon the rights of another!

THE CONSTITUTION IS YOUR FRIEND