Beginner souls and Advanced souls

reply to post by 13579


13579, again this is not a thread to debate the existence of the soul.

In the last thread discussing ancient Indian civilisation you started an off-topic debate on the meaning of civilisation. In this thread you have started on off-topic debates on the existence of the soul. I think you need to show more respect to peoples threads and stop derailing them with off-topic debates

I shall not have to ask you again. Start a separate thread on the existence of the soul and in the futute please respect the subject matter of threads you are participating in. I have seen you hijack too many threads now and they end up turning into you against everybody situations.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


well no

God: I created man
Mankind: I have a sould its me

Aristoal: A sould is true only to the relitive being who in fact says he has
Logic: then if one has one what would be the definition of such?
Aristoal: why of couse man him self
God: would that require you to have more than one ?
Mankind: No because it deines me
Aristoal: well i did say that

Logic : and what did you think a soul was? a buy one get one free at wallmart?

the topic its self states "beginger soul and advanced"

yet proven by both logic and god and aristoal that is not the case...

do i have a soul? Yes i do.. becaue it only applies to me!

am i a young soul? NO

and I an advanced soul? NO

because its relitive.. that means it has NO age



yet im called a troll for pointing it out

THank you ats

reall i love you all... keep up that deny ignorace thing..

Originally posted by Ceara
One easy way to tell...

an old soul won't go around saying he/she is an old soul.

I am very familiar with the Michael teachings also, from a few years back anyway.

I don't see what it matters if someone is baby/infant/young/mature/old. We all have to move through the process. No cheating! hehe

Another easy way to tell...

An old soul wont have a surefire way of telling who is and isnt an old soul

...I kid

reply to post by Indigo_Child


ok as you wish i shall go away... as you think im not being constructive.. and only want people to agree

enjoy the one sided debate about souls when you controdeicted you self .

and i did not derail your thread.. i pointed out it would be better to use culter and not civilsation

and i was the first person to star and flag it... but yeah thanks..

enjoy..

reply to post by candide


Hi Candide,

I am a person who speaks the truth, as I see it, always. And I have had a lot of trouble through speaking the truth, because a lot of people do not like to hear the truth.

And even tho someone told me I was an old soul, I am not pinning my beliefs on that.

But I still say that I can sometimes get very strong vibes, when I am looking into a peron's eyes, of how new or old they are, soul-wise.

reply to post by TaraLou


Yes, the eyes is another indication. Some people you meet have very wide and wise looking eyes.

There is another indicator I have found. I have found some people to exude a natural warmth. Some people have come up to me and I could actually feel a very lovely warmth from them. These were very spiritual people and they approached me to help me with issues I was having.

reply to post by Indigo_Child


You are so right. People exude warmth or coldness - if mankind could get its instincts back, there are a lot of things we could literally sniff out, as animals do.

Please ponder the phrase "have a soul."

Try out the idea that you ARE a soul, inhabiting a human form.

reply to post by 13579


I disagree with the premise of this thread, but I have managed to get along well.

How one carries themselves in this forum and how they interact is very important to the discussion of issues. Don't try to belly flop into a thread, just try to dive in and become part of it.

reply to post by TaraLou

And even tho someone told me I was an old soul, I am not pinning my beliefs on that.

This is good. To assume one is an old soul(or intellectually aware or any other synonym) is likely to lead to complacency. At whatever 'age' one is, it is always important to continue to grow.

reply to post by Indigo_Child

There is another indicator I have found. I have found some people to exude a natural warmth. Some people have come up to me and I could actually feel a very lovely warmth from them. These were very spiritual people and they approached me to help me with issues I was having.

It would be great to find a spiritual warmth people can share. Maybe someday man can prove these things. Until then, it is best to believe in whatever works for you.

Lets assume you do radiate some kind of 'good feeling' vibe. You helped people with your ability.

Lets assume the opposite. You helped people through a mutual perceived ability.

As long as you don't take things to the extremes (violence, coercion) people can benefit from faith in something.

edit: had to fix grammer

[edit on 2-1-2010 by DINSTAAR]

reply to post by DINSTAAR


i do agree but ..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

gets my goat ...

i just feel that some people make threads just for points..

im going to leave this one as i was asked by the Op and respect that... but a the same time.

DENY IGNORANCE

well i hold true to that .. even if some dont.



[edit on 2-1-2010 by 13579]

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Actually, being an 'old soul' means you have continually failed to graduate - but it also gives you a certain amount of insight.

I deal in the truth - that is a difficult path in this world full of lies, and full of powerful people who spend the whole time suppressing the truth.

So we must seek the truth, on our own, and on our own path.

Karmayogi,

Your quote from the Gita reminded me of another very relevant quote which is sort of answering the question of this thread:

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what is the mark of a person whose Prajna is steady and merged in superconscious state? How does a person of steady Prajna speak? How does such a person sit and walk? (2.54) (Prajna means consciousness, mind, intellect, judgment, discrimination, and wisdom.)


The Supreme Lord said: When one is completely free from all desires of the mind and is satisfied in the Self by the (joy of) Self, then one is called a person of steady Prajna, O Arjuna. (2.55)


A person whose mind is unperturbed by sorrow, who does not crave pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear, and anger; such a person is called a sage of steady Prajna. (2.56)


Those who are not attached to anything, who are neither elated by getting desired results nor troubled by undesired results, their Prajna is deemed steady. (2.57)


When one can completely withdraw (or restrain) the senses from the sense objects as a tortoise withdraws its limbs (into the shell), then the Prajna of such a person is considered steady. (2.58)


The desire for sensual pleasures fades away if one abstains from sense enjoyment, but the craving (for sense enjoyment) remains. The craving also disappears from the one who has seen (or known) the Supreme. (2.59)


Restless senses, O Arjuna, forcibly carry away the mind of even a wise person striving for perfection. (2.60)


Having brought the senses under control, one should fix one's mind on the Self. One's Prajna becomes steady whose senses are under control. (2.61)

One develops attachment to sense objects by thinking about sense objects. Desire for sense objects comes from attachment to sense objects, and anger comes from unfulfilled desires. (2.62)


Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down (from the right path) when reasoning is destroyed. (2.63)


A disciplined person, enjoying sense objects with senses that are under control and free from likes and dislikes, attains tranquillity. (2.64)


All sorrows are destroyed upon attainment of tranquillity. The intellect of such a tranquil person soon becomes completely steady. (2.65)

This in return reminds me an ex-girlfriend of mine. She would often be surprised at just how relaxed and calm I was in stressful situations(they were not actually stressful, she would turn them into stressful situations with her own mind) I would not react like she did, I would just treat them like the changing of seasons and accept them. If things did not work out, I would not get upset, I would just take it in my stride and carry on. She never could understand why I was like that! She saw it as a flaw in my personality.

Here Krishna is saying that an advanced soul is somebody that gets neither elated by getting desires results nor sad when you don't get your desired results. Is this the true mark of an advanced soul?

Also not being attached to sense-objects or pleasure.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child

Here Krishna is saying that an advanced soul is somebody that gets neither elated by getting desires results nor sad when you don't get your desired results. Is this the true mark of an advanced soul?

lol.... good edit, I was a little confused.

I would say no.

I would say that an advanced soul (or in my mind, intellectually enlightened) is one that seeks the most logical conclusions, does not use coercion to meet goals, and ever seeks to expand his or her own understanding of the world, universe, and multiverse they inhabit.

Pleasure does not have negative effect on ones enlightenment as long as it is sought with the three pillars I mentioned above.

Many pleasurable things are logical as well. The orgasm is a good example. Sex feels good, but it is also necessary.

As for desires being/not being fulfilled, why have desires to begin with? If ones desires are logical, nonviolent, and expand knowledge, or the ability to expand knowledge, they are to be sought.

So, Old Soul, you live on a planet where the average soul age is late Young … and can't you tell? You know about living by the Golden Rule and honoring the Four Agreements, and you smile at the games played by the younger soul ages, for you were there once. You know that it's all Maya, or illusion, so you march to your own drum, rarely getting steamed up about causes. You are good at almost anything you do but may choose to do nothing, which, by the way, really puzzles the younger soul ages. And our work and hobbies are usually oriented to personal growth, teaching, writing or bringing beauty of some sort into the world.

All I want is to live simple natural nomadic minimalist life. I don't know if old soul is the right word I would say its having mature understanding. Once you truly understand history and scope of inevitability you will will quickly lose your greed and foolish ambitions. The more things I learn about the more I realise I know nothing compare to many people and should not try to out learn people as it a foolish. The wisdom of man is foolishness to God.


[edit on 2-1-2010 by SimpleKnowledge]

I would say that an advanced soul (or in my mind, intellectually enlightened) is one that seeks the most logical conclusions, does not use coercion to meet goals, and ever seeks to expand his or her own understanding of the world, universe, and multiverse they inhabit.

I do think that ones capacity to rationally is also an indicator of an advanced soul

I think we can divide the human being into three aspects: Body, Mind and Spirit. There are those who are predominately about body, they live their life seeking basic pleasures like food, sex, power. It is their main drive of their life and they are physical beings. These are equivalent to beginner souls.

There are those who are predominately about their mind, though they have to fulfill the bodies needs, they only so to seek higher goals in life such as beauty/art meaning, justice, knowledge for its sake. Their main drive of is the intellect and they are scientific and logical beings. These are equivalent of the intermediate souls.

Then there are those who are predominantly about their soul. They only meet their body and minds needs as far as is required to seek the highest goal of life bliss and union with the world. They are the ones that seriously ponder over the deepest mysteries of life such as what is the meaning of life, what is the source of being, what is the relationship between us and the universe. These are the equivalent of the advanced souls.

Each one has its own rationality, it's own logic. If you see yourself as a physical being then your highest good is food, sex and power. If you see yourself as an intellectual being, then your highest good is contemplation over ideas(art, science etc) If you see yourself as a spiritual being, then your highest good is self-realization

Many pleasurable things are logical as well. The orgasm is a good example. Sex feels good, but it is also necessary.

It depends on how you define yourself. For a physical being sex is logical. We should get it whenever we can and get loads of it. For an intellectual being knowledge is logical. And for a spiritual being self-realization is logical.

Krishna is talking from the perspective of a spiritual being. For a spiritual being sense-objects do not give fulfillment.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by impaired
You know - I found this on GLP, and it was very interesting to say the least:

If you're reading this, you're probably an Old Soul. Infant Souls are in jail for being serial killers; Baby Souls are busy attending Bible class or Ku Klux Klan rallies; Young Souls are off chasing the Almighty Dollar so they can park a shiny new BMW in their driveway for all the neighbors to see; and Mature Souls are flitting between their shrinks and the Betty Ford clinic. Only Old Souls sense that there's more to life, and are trying to figure it out so that they can get off the incarnation carousel. However, as the chart shows, we're in the minority.

Its pretty typical for theories like these to put "the searchers" in the position of "the enlightened" or "old souls" or whatever. Its just to fuel the fragile ego since most of the searchers are not happy with how the world works, and wants change because of it.

We are not happy with the world because it doesnt suit our image of what the world SHOULD be. So to comfort ourselfs, we are very attracted to everything that puts us in the "special" seat.

You could even argue that we are the "young souls" because we are too focused on what the world SHOULD be instead of making the most of what it actually is.



[edit on 2-1-2010 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


I think we are souls meandering through states of ascension, descent or stagnation.
This earth is like the wash cycle and souls are on levels of progress according to what you know and how you use what you know.
Advanced is one way to put it but I think ascended is better since we are moving upward as opposed to forward.
We come here to earth repeatedly like going through so many wash cycles. Eventually we are clean and finally "light" enough to manage ascension to where all the clean souls live....back to the source from where we originally unfolded. I don't think souls are young or old. They are infinite metaphysical atoms. One timeless, ageless atom....a single part of the whole, source.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I've been wondering how do you know whether you and another is a beginner soul or an advanced soul? What are the distinguishing characteristics?

Once you know where you are at terms of your spiritual evolution, how do you proceed from there?

Hi,
The idea of new and old souls is myth, one that many delight in using to attempt to be seen as being spiritually superior.

The only way a soul could be considered new, is if that soul has now chosen to experience Earth, compared to all those souls that made the same choice eons ago.

All souls are equal portions of the one source... add your own word, name etc for that.

I don't mean to put down this thread as a whole, but the idea that one can generalise the majority 'soul age' by racial group or geographical location bewilders me and leaves a bitter aftertaste. For example:

Aboriginal populations tend to be Infant Souls, such as those in Australia, Borneo, Ethiopia, the Amazon Basin, and the Sudan

These people until more recent years due to 'civilised' intervention have been the most likely groups to live along-side nature, practise spiritual endeavors and have overall done the least pointless killing and polluting so far as I can tell.

Baby Souls also predominate in China, India, Indonesia, in Muslim countries such as Iran, Iraq...

Odd that these countries mentioned churn out monks, spiritual leaders and messiahs and have done for thousands of years yet are baby soul hang-outs.

Young Souls pop up where science and economies are hot, such as Australia, Canada, some European countries, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, South Korea, and Vietnam, plus progressive Arab states such as Oman and Saudi Arabia. Some areas of the U.S. are comfortable for Young Souls, such as California, especially LA and Silicon Valley, although the rest of the U.S. is shifting from Young to Mature.

This sounds more socio-psychological to me than anything else. Speaking of the majority of the residents of these countries however, in my experience they're mostly selfless, polite and humble people who are for the most part very tolerant and peaceful.

As for the highly specific information on the regions of the US, all I can say is that it shows a bias in the presented info. I'm inclined to label this information is being tainted with socio-economic influence and other point-of-view related factors, and as such I don't particularly hold this section of the OP in high regard.

On the whole the best idea is to not generalise and to instead reserve judgement as to avoid segregation and accidentally appearing a pompous patriot which I'm sure you don't mean, and are not.

PS: My apologies if my words at points seem sharp.

reply to post by Indigo_Child


You shall know him by his words and actions. Already mentioned in the scriptures. Go re read them. How come someone like you has all these doubts...