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ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

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posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter
 


Thanks I started a thread based on that post, if you would like to stop in and help me polish it up. I added a few more items.

Here is the linkIf the Conservative Movement succeeds then What? My response!


Conservative Movement?

Reagan must be spinning like a top in his grave.

Conservatism is the last thing anyone can call what you posted.

Ziggy




posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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Am I invisible here or what? Do my posts not show on anyones screen? Sorry I am simply trying to figure out why all of my posts are being ignored. In fact, I am trying to figure out why everyone of reason and logic is being ignored in place of radicals and ignorance.

Oh that's right, because this topic isn't about debate - it is about trying to discredit the revolution further by discrediting it with racism and discrimination and trying to sink it into people's heads that the plan is BAD BAD BAD.

This topic is propaganda.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


That doesn't mean they won't be replaced. They will be replaced with new elections that aren't contributed

Replaced by who? The Great Revolutionary Council.
Just like Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Fidel ad nauseum? You claim to have "fought" to preserve The Constitution, yet your first move would be to suspend it, then rewrite it according to your personal views.
Yet you, and the other delusional tyrant wanna be's remain oblivious to that contradiction!



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


You're not invisible, I see you just fine. I just haven't heard you say anything I disagree with yet.
There's a lot of really powerful hate going on in here, which isn't all that surprising. I was hoping this would be more along the lines of a honest debate rather than what we're seeing a lot of.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Am I invisible here or what? Do my posts not show on anyones screen? Sorry I am simply trying to figure out why all of my posts are being ignored. In fact, I am trying to figure out why everyone of reason and logic is being ignored in place of radicals and ignorance.

Because thats what your Tea party/ revolutionary movement consists of, radicals and ignorance. The segment of the population that doesn't respect the electoral process, that hates the idea of equal rights and thinks they have the right to enforce their views on ALL of America by force of arms.
In other words, nuts criminals and despots.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Hi,

I can't answer everyone at the same time, I'm going to read your posts, this is not propaganda. At least not from me, if it sounds bad, it's not my doing.

I admit I'm left of center, but not by much. But insanity is what it is, if you post something crazy, it sounds bad.

Heck if you think it's a setup, don't post.

All I asked was what people would do, if that's a conspiracy, what isn't.


Thanks for posting

Ziggy



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by bpg131313
 


That doesn't mean they won't be replaced. They will be replaced with new elections that aren't contributed

Replaced by who? The Great Revolutionary Council.
Just like Lenin, Hitler, Mao, Fidel ad nauseum? You claim to have "fought" to preserve The Constitution, yet your first move would be to suspend it, then rewrite it according to your personal views.
Yet you, and the other delusional tyrant wanna be's remain oblivious to that contradiction!


Do you even read? I specifically stated by new elections. What part of elections eludes you? The reason Congress must be ousted is that they are all bought. I very specifically mentioned in 4a that no elected official would be permitted to campaign on private funds, or donate funds. This is to keep the fight honest. No special interest groups, no favoritism by media (because they'd be broken apart from corporate ownership via my 5th point. By the way, I wouldn't be rewriting anything. I'd be adding to the Constitution. As for suspending it, those are your words, not mine. I wouldn't suspend anything actually verbatim in the Constitution, it's all the things that aren't in the Constitution that I'd be stopping. As for the amendments, I also very specifically stated that they'd be voted on, by the people. Don't even try to push me into that fascist corner. I've studied this issue far more than you'd care to imagine.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


I would say this is actually an honest debate. You have two sides here that are diametrically opposed to one another. This really is Libertarian versus Federalist stuff, the oldest ideological battle in American history. This debate has been going on in some form or another since the Revolution, and I believe history will see it as the great question of your empire for eons to come.

Of course it is not going to be as civil as the question of jam or butter on toast. You're talking about the foundations of a civilization here. For most of American history, the Federalists have been the clear and present majority, and they still are, but this does not keep the Libertarian minority from getting to have their say as well. We will disagree, violently in fact, but that is what happens when something really truly does matter.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


By stereotyping us you are only proving that you are more like these "radicals" and "nuts" than you would like to let on. Just like any group or movement, Patriots will include those who have questionable beliefs. Racism, discrimination, different religions - that doesn't change them from being people with valid opinions.

But just like the Patriot movement and am quite sure that there are many on the opposite side who would sport these beliefs as well. Does that make them any less responsible?

I'll admit that forcing any type of personal beliefs or ideologies on the people is absurd, but I will also promise you that any REAL patriot that understands freedom - should a revolution come to pass - would not rest on such ideologies lightly. Freedom is guaranteed to all people, regardless.

Please, stop your stereotyping.


reply to post by bpg131313
 


I was more so referring to those who are debunking thread after thread as racist babble and insanity, but thanks for noticing.




reply to post by ziggystrange
 



I'm afraid the only reason it sounds bad is because of your attitude towards it. I don't see how any sane person could see a country where you are free to do ANYTHING within your rights as long as it doesn't infringe another, as a bad thing.

Certainly, we don't have such today.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


By the way, I wouldn't be rewriting anything. I'd be adding to the Constitution. As for suspending it, those are your words, not mine. I wouldn't suspend anything actually verbatim in the Constitution, it's all the things that aren't in the Constitution that I'd be stopping. As for the amendments, I also very specifically stated that they'd be voted on, by the people. Don't even try to push me into that fascist corner. I've studied this issue far more than you'd care to imagine


LOL Adding to The Constitution is rewriting it. there is no provision for dissolving Congress in The Consitution. none. The process of election is described, you would want to usurp it. Same for Amendments. the process is long and difficult for a reason. You want to usurp it and replace it with dierect democratic process? Thats the worst idea I've ever heard, we would have hundreds of Amendments, the Amendment of the week. A constant series of knee jerk laws depending on events. If we followed your thinking, there is a good chance Bush would have been President for life after 9/11. If you can't see the glaringly obvious flaw in your thinking, all your "studying' has been for naught.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by ProjectJimmy
 


I agree with you there. This is something that has been debated for centuries now, and will be for centuries more. The key question is in this thread's title, "If you get your Revolution, Then what?" Apparently, no one likes to hear our version of "Then what". I presented what I'd do if I were somehow placed in the position of making changes should a Revolution occur. It's my version. I'll follow the Founding Fathers and their wisdom. The biggest problem is that they never imagined that the American people would fail to care about their own government. They never imagined that corporations and special interests would buy politicians. It's difficult when the best minds we had for this nation were two hundred years ago and we've been struggling ever since. All things equal, I'll follow Jefferson.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by gwydionblack
 


Patriots will include those who have questionable beliefs. Racism, discrimination, different religions - that doesn't change them from being people with valid opinions.

These are NOT valid opinions when it comes to enshrining them into law.
I'm not stereotyping, I'm simply observing.
The many many interviews i've seen, the Tea Party events themselves and the parade of posts in this very thread that would deny freedom to much of the population in the name of "patriots" is PROOF of my observations"
You cannot prove otherwise.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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LOL Adding to The Constitution is rewriting it. there is no provision for dissolving Congress in The Consitution. none. The process of election is described, you would want to usurp it. Same for Amendments. the process is long and difficult for a reason. You want to usurp it and replace it with dierect democratic process? Thats the worst idea I've ever heard, we would have hundreds of Amendments, the Amendment of the week. A constant series of knee jerk laws depending on events. If we followed your thinking, there is a good chance Bush would have been President for life after 9/11. If you can't see the glaringly obvious flaw in your thinking, all your "studying' has been for naught.


Go up to the top of the screen and read ziggystrange's title. In it are, "If you did get your revolution, Then what?" You see, I'm writing from the position that everything has already collapsed. Everything is already dissolved. That's what a genuine revolution is. Of course, you seem to be rather content with corporations running the nation rather than those we appoint with our votes. I find your defense of your representatives reprehensible when they'll take the special interest money and send the people down the river without a paddle. That's precisely what's happening in the US right now.

If the revolution has already happened, and everything is collapsed (as ziggystrange implied in the title of this thread) I listed the ways I'd change things. I see that you disagree with them. I also see, after reading through the pages on this thread that you've done nothing but attack people rather than provide solutions you think appropriate. If you have they've been so interlaced with vitriol that they failed to register in my mind as anything other than hate. Scream at the top of your lungs, Sir. You're going to need the practice. Should the US keep going down its current path, you'll be needing it. The path our politicians are on now is not sustainable. How it crumbles is anyones guess. Once it happens, it'll be up to the People as to how we piece things back together again. Best wishes to you and whatever State you live in.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


You have no basis of proof either my friend.

Let me try to understand your logic for a moment.

You see a Tea Party protest with 1000 people. 6-10 of those people are holding blatantly racist or discriminating signs. Therefore, all the Tea Party protesters are racists.

You see a couple posts of plans for after a revolution that include racist ideals. Therefore, all revolutionaries are racists.




Nope, still stereotyping regardless of excuses you make.

I already agreed with you that personal beliefs and ideologies are not to be basis of any law, so you don't need to tell me that. You need to realize that no EVERYBODY, regardless of what the mainstream media or other posters will tell you, is a gun toting, power hungry, illegal killing hillbilly who just wants a bigger piece of the pie.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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The answer is in Rand Paul
He is the ONE



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


Go up to the top of the screen and read ziggystrange's title. In it are, "If you did get your revolution, Then what?" You see, I'm writing from the position that everything has already collapsed. Everything is already dissolved. That's what a genuine revolution is. Of course, you seem to be rather content with corporations running the nation rather than those we appoint with our votes. I find your defense of your representatives reprehensible when they'll take the special interest money and send the people down the river without a paddle. That's precisely what's happening in the US right now.

If the revolution has already happened, and everything is collapsed (as ziggystrange implied in the title of this thread) I listed the ways I'd change things. I see that you disagree with them. I also see, after reading through the pages on this thread that you've done nothing but attack people rather than provide solutions you think appropriate. If you have they've been so interlaced with vitriol that they failed to register in my mind as anything other than hate. Scream at the top of your lungs, Sir. You're going to need the practice. Should the US keep going down its current path, you'll be needing it. The path our politicians are on now is not sustainable. How it crumbles is anyones guess. Once it happens, it'll be up to the People as to how we piece things back together again. Best wishes to you and whatever State you live

Who says I'm satisfied with the status quo?
I don't defend corrupt representatives, but I do defend the Constitutional process. Stop your silly ranting about hate, I've seen more hate expressed in the Tea Party movement than anything else. Typical. you are upset that I "attack" the various ridiculous tyranical ideas for your "revolution", shows how superficial your reasoning is, and it also shows perfectly the hypocracy , intolerance and authoritarianism inherant in the movement itself.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by OldDragger]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


Now you are saying that this movement has to do with restricting freedoms?

You are almost laughable. Unless of course THE FREEDOMS you are speaking of is FREE HEALTH CARE on someone else's dime.

Repeat a lie enough times and it may come true; is this you standard tactic?



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by gwydionblack
Am I invisible here or what? Do my posts not show on anyones screen? Sorry I am simply trying to figure out why all of my posts are being ignored. In fact, I am trying to figure out why everyone of reason and logic is being ignored in place of radicals and ignorance.

Oh that's right, because this topic isn't about debate - it is about trying to discredit the revolution further by discrediting it with racism and discrimination and trying to sink it into people's heads that the plan is BAD BAD BAD.

This topic is propaganda.



No. The plan is bad bad bad.
We have legal means to take back our rights, any that might have been lost...but an angry mob is an angry mob. And one with rifles is worse.

Believe me I have seen these crowds up close.
Decent, hardworking, troubled Americans are joined by a sprinkling of militant full fledged radicals with loudspeakers who whip them up into a frenzy. Before you know it - they are screaming for someone to be hung, and they may even hang an effigy. A mock ceremony, cremation of care, like Omaba is a voo doo doll. It begins civil enough but spiralss to insanity quickly at the urging of the mob.

They are really only fighting for one right....The right to bear arms.
Scared to the point of paranoia Obama's gonna take their guns away.
They have no idea that no matter how many spouses and children are accidentally shot, no matter how many cops are murdered they will always be able to sleep with the cold steel they love because we will never take away gun rights.
I guess they figure maybe with that intact -nobody will have to pay those high taxes if they don't want to.
Or maybe they are just gearing up for this revolt.

I heard Mitch McConnel's minority address today - actually a call to arms cloaked in a message of party unity. Listen to the last line. "This should not define us as a nation...(in times of trouble) Americans have always taken up ranks"????
Unbelievable...In fact. I think they may have already started the revolution without you buddy...You better get your boots on.

I have quit fighting for gun control.
Now I think every man woman and child over 16 should be taught to use a gun and have at least a 45 on them at all times.

Then at least we can level the playing field.



[edit on 2-1-2010 by rusethorcain]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


Also, do not be surprised if the ones calling for the racist and discriminatory ideals are not alternate identities of these very posters.

A SOP of CoIntelPro, create an argument and provide the very people that they say exist.

It was shown to be happening at the 9/12 protest.

Acorn had sent in people to act like racists and there you have it. The very proof they need to de-legitimize the movement. There is video of these people getting caught. They also do the same thing all over the web. Divide and Conquer.

That is why they do not debate the real posters. They are continuing the very program that they have used everywhere.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by rusethorcain
 


I wish I had the first clue what you were talking about because then maybe it would make more sense.

Apparently you think armed militants and revolutionaries are fighting for... the right the bear arms? Am I right? Because if I am, you are wrong.

The right to bear arms has yet to be formally infringed upon and it is one of the last few. There has been legislation that has limited it, don't get me wrong, but as of right now - the right to bear arms is the least of our worries.

Is substantial situations occur where that right MIGHT be infringed upon, then yeah, that would become the focus because quite frankly, revolution is impossible without such a right. As of right now, I think we are focusing on the REST of the Constitution that has been infringed and spit upon over the last couple of decades.


Revolution in America would be a one sided ordeal. People not involved wouldn't have to worry about it unless the government showed its true colors and started raining down hellfire for the hell of it, killing thousands of innocents in the name of quelling the rebellion they brought on. Otherwise, I'm sure you could defend yourselves from the looters and the brief anarchy that follows, especially if you know how to use that gun.



Rest assured, I'm not fighting to keep my gun just yet, I'm just fighting for everything else for the time being.



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