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ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

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posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


I like what you wrote in this posting. I wish we could get to something like this quickly.




posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


The fact of the matter is, democracy is an inherently imperfect system. Whoopi Goldberg pointed out recently that Mike Huckabee's decision to commute the sentence of the man who would ultimately murder four police officers in Washington is evidence that we are ruled by humans, and not by gods. These "patriots" are asking that we be ruled by gods. If not by gods, then themselves, who they consider to be the truest followers of God.

In a way, the imperfection of our government is its beauty. There is always room for improvement; we can make things better; we learn things, and most importantly, we recognize that humans themselves are imperfect.

Perfection, rule by gods, that sounds strangely similar to... don't make me say it... COMMUNISM!!!



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by HappilyEverAfter
 


Thanks I started a thread based on that post, if you would like to stop in and help me polish it up. I added a few more items.

Here is the linkIf the Conservative Movement succeeds then What? My response!



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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This is too easy! Start by implementing Common Law and drop the Uniform Commercial Code that now governs us. UCC is for Corporations ONLY and should NEVER apply to people outside of contract law. Implement a draft style of government where once you serve a single term in any capacity you are no longer allowed to serve again. Make lobbying illegal and punishable by law. Eliminate the Federal Reserve and discharge 100% of all debt as it has been obtained via fraud. Do not afford corporations "person" status as they are not persons. Finally, send to trial EVERY politician and corporate officer responsible for the collapse of the Republic.

ALL of this could accomplished by not firing a single shot - if Americans would just grow a pair and STOP participating in the BS system!



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
ALL of this could accomplished by not firing a single shot - if Americans would just grow a pair and STOP participating in the BS system!



I agree. With your pair; how specifically do YOU not participate in the BS system. When was the last time you didn't pay your income tax? Are you working for a company or do you own your own business?



[edit on 2-1-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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Although I have only read the first page, the fact is, we NEED to stop the insanity of the media first.

We must enforce the Constitution as it was written and no more and no less. I wish that more people would read Thomas Paine's, "Common Sense" and "Rights of Man". These are some of the greatest writings I have read.

We the people would be the police force and the military. This would follow the Constitution as to the armed militia. The police force today is just a corporate security system that is enforcing "color of law" statutes on innocent sovereigns. Why does Switzerland have a completely armed public? Protect the Banks from would be robbers like the rest of the world as a whole!!

Education would be true, not the U.N. crap they teach now. Religion is ones own business and the National anthem would be changed to:

"Oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountains majesty above the fruited plains, AMERICA, AMERICA, God shed his grace on thee, and crown the good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea."

Now this means EVERY persons God, no matter who it may be or what it may be. NOT just the Christian ideology of God. This would be explained to ALL.

NO WELFARE, neighborhood gardens would be implemented to grow food for those who have none and can not afford it, we will take care of our own in each neighborhood, everyone will need to work in the gardens or on farms to earn their food and clothing if they have no technical experience or training. Those able bodied would be trained by those of us who have the knowledge.

There will be no direct tax on personal property including the trade of labor for remuneration. Income tax WILL be imposed on those making INCOME from sources outside personal labor. i.e. Stocks, Corporations, Imports, Exports and so on just as defined in the original Constitution, THESE taxes, and these taxes ALONE, are used to run government. Also from excise taxes, the sale of fuel, natural gas and other products of nature, to corporations for industry, and any natural resources exported will be taxed as needed to fund government within the State where the resource was taken from.

CC2009 has a good plan in place also. Justice will be administered by the Sheriff, he is an elected official by the people, Judges have sworn an oath to the crown and will be removed from office. The BAR association will be dismantled and never again to be founded under any other name. ALL lawyers and attorneys will be of the people and duly monitored. Everyone will be given back their "strawman" identity. Research that!!

The one true Common Law will be used by all sovereigns...Thou shalt NEVER infringe upon anothers rights, life, liberty or property EVER.

If this law is violated in any way, the perp will be arrested by the citizens in the neighborhood and brought to justice by the Sheriff as it should be.

Capital punishment will be enforced, commit murder and if you are proven beyond the shadow of a doubt or caught red handed, you will be terminated. The greatest deterent ever.

I could go on forever here but it is just common sense as Thomas Paine has written about. If everyone were educated of the same values of man and rights of man, this world would be so much the better. What's the problem with that? I wish more people would actually study this country and this worlds history. The Magna Carte said it all. as did the......

The Declaration of Independence,


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.




www.ushistory.org...



[edit for spelling on 2-1-2010 by daddio]



[edit on 2-1-2010 by daddio]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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I just read the first few posts, forgive me if I duplicate what someone else has said. I will read them later,if I read them all I will get distracted.

First off, we are not wanting to build a new system. We already have a system, it's called the Constitution and it works great. It has worked for the last two hundred years but it has recently been overcome with corruption. Ok, the corruption has been growing over the last two hundred years, but has recently, the last fifty years, overtaken the system and is very recently, the last ten years, the corrupt manipulators are wearing away any control we ever had and the last two years they seem to be intent on destroying our entire country and all its individuals for their personal gain.
The threat is very specific. The system works fine, you take away the monsters who had finegeled control and it can run again. It was not perfect, we need checks and balances for people to work out their differences in a legal and orderly way for self government to work and that is what we had.
You are asking why we want a revolution and what would we replace our system with. We don't want a revolution, we have already had one, or rather a coup. It happened in 1963, specifically on Nov 22, 1963, although the preparations for it were laid down for it in Dec of 1913.

Basically we want our country back. The evil empire needs to be overthrown. Are they the Rockefellers or Rothschilds, the FED or the Bank of England, we do not know. That is what makes it so hard to overthrow them. Allen Dulles on behalf of the Rockefellers created a CIA that has been working as a hit squad, an enforcer unit at our expense. The CIA took over our military with a goal of endless war to weaken our economy and enslave us to a military/police state so we could disrupt the developing countries of the world before they become powerful enough to secure a decent standard of living.for themselves. The Rockefellers and/or Rothschilds don't have their tenticles into their societies to control their every movement like they do us.They realize that if the world gets truely global in a democratic style, that their power would be harder to maintain. They, the Rothschilds/English controlled India for two hundred years and kept them backward for as long as they could. WWII put an end to their colonial empire, who knows why, because they seem to have deliberately engineered WWII by supporting Hitler and by manipulating pre War Germany's economy like they are doing ours. Maybe they didn't see how a free India would take off. They engineered China's development by ending the isolation of China, maybe they thought they could get their tentacles into China effectively, but China is probably too big for them. They were able to control our society so totally because they got in early, financing development in all areas. In medicine, they really messed us up. The 1918 Swineflu pandemic was caused by the vaccinations/innoculations that the troops were forced to endure.. That they could effectively cover that up and still keep it covered is amazing. We have fluoride in our water. This is poison, causes 20% decline in intelligence and people coming off it tend to be suicidal. The AMA is totally their tool. Only doctors who toe their line are allowed to practice. Most of the medications our idiot doctors keep people on are bad for them. They took over our education systems by manipulating the Universities that they had helped finance.
911 was an inside job, and anybody who knowingly deceives people about that is the worst traitor and deserves to die a horrible death. Now, don't call the DHS on me, vengeance belongs to God, I totally believe in God and He tells us emphatically to leave vengeance up to Him, it's not our department. So call off your secret police, I'm not committing a thought crime and advocating violence.
So this arrogant controlling family in the subterfuge of "improving" society has put all their phony hooks in our country. By donating, at least having the taxpayers donate, material to our police, riot gear and what have you, they think they have remade our law and order, local police system into their private Gestapo. and they have their DHS, a branch of their CIA amassing data on us, so they know who's bank accounts to cancel when they complete their takeover.
You think we want a revolution? We want to survive these monsters, but in order to do that we have to throw them out. That is the challenge. They have their hooks into every part of our society, it will be very difficult to identify them and remove them. Public opinion will do it. They think they are invisible but every thing they do is getting them noticed more and more. They think our young people are sufficiently "dumbed down" but our young people have our pioneering genes even if their education covered up their heritage. They are not going to be slaves.
The problem is how to overthrow these people. A grassroots awareness of the problem would do it in no time. A few more rediculous excesses like these terrorist attacks and expanding the war and increasing taxes and people who are not awake to them yet, will become so

What we basically want is self-government, government of the people, by the people, for the people. That is what the founding fathers wanted for us and that is basically what we had before these monsters took over.

The way to get it back is to stand up and say that we want it back. We appreciate our system and we want to restore it. Restore the Constitution.

People still think we have a free press in this country. Paul Revere would have gotten no where without a free press. We don't know how long the internet will survive, they are trying to shut it down. We need to communicate with each other about what is wrong and what to do about it. If we take to the streets we will be massacred. They are just waiting for that with their depopoulation agenda. We need to meet together and make people aware of the situation we are in.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by m khan]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by m khan]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by m khan]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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what I would do?

I would let every state have the choice to break off from the central government as there PEOPLE (popular vote only, this would give the minority vote the clear chance to move to a state that better fits there lifestyle). The only thing the state must agree on is to not interfere with the central governments laws. The central government would NOT be allowed to interfere with the segregated state. States would be able to join with other segregated states however to form economic or morally similar states.

I would pull all military out from all around the world. Disarm all oversee nukes and bases. All military focus would be to set up strategic defenses that are of little threat offensively. Our military peace keeping force would be kept to peacefully stop all violent acts should one occur within the States.

I would allow the USA to have its own "inner" economy to fuel our import needs. I think the best way to explain this would be to set the "inner" economies currency at whatever the state/central gov't states feels is a good standard for there people. The economies would have "ratings" that can be used for a "loan" to get "import" money. Import money would be the only function of any type of central bank.

Any state in the union, segregated or aligned must accept the Bill of Rights as the supreme law that holds the country together. However if the population of a separate state votes to over ride a part of the Bill of Rights this would be allowed within the borders of the state.

The best part, the politics.
The PEOPLE (popular vote) decide the direction of the State. A vote can be conducted at ANY time. There will be a huge push to make voting a secure and fast process. A service would provide people with details and updates on topics of there interested that are currently voted on. The central gov't congress would replace the official vote on bills with the direct vote from the represented district. Districts will allow any body from the district to represent. True Democracy. Before the official over throw of a government this would need to be available to all people via SUPER ADVERTISED websites, television, cell phones, home phones, mail.

Right after an overthrow of the current government all infrastructure would be handed directly to the citizens. This should insure that our TVs , cell phones, Internets are still all connected. Immediate effort to get more free energy widely available would need to be started. All farm land would be returned to the people, mega corporate farms would be placed under the districts people. The land must be used and all food would be grown under the safest measures possible. The military would need to start immediately returning home and guard these assets. Roads would be repaired on as needed basis and mass transit should be even more widely available.

Science will be heavily pursued and new technology should be able to be manufactured according to the needs of the people.

The technology is already upon us to allow a complete transformation of our society. Everyone can have energy, a shelter and access to food and water, we can only be equal with and independent of the mega corporations and greedy if we are a true democracy.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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I find it interesting that the ones in this topic who are against the revolution seem to only target and pick apart the most radical of posts that implement racism and forced personal belief principles.

I have yet to see a reasonable post commented on such as my own or 'theendisnighe'. Rather than collecting opinions on the matter, it seems that you rather started this topic in order to collect and bash upon all would be revolutionists, never actually taking the time to consider our positions and the fact that some of us actually do mean well.

As far as those of us in here that continue to stereotype Patriots and Constitutionalists, going so far as to classify us in the same category as the Nazis or Islamic extremists, I can only laugh at how gullible your perception of the world truly is. Such radical statements only help to fuel my fire due to the fact that is people like you that discredit any real change in this country, activating the tactics used by the mass media to try to discredit anything that might come between your Utopian reality of fast food and American Idol.


I am a Patriot. I am a Constitutionalists. I stand before you today to tell you that I am not a racist, I do not discriminate, and I hold every human being accountable for their actions and deserving of the same rights as those next to him.

I fight to defend the Constitution of the United States of America by enemies foreign and domestic and anyone who looks to stand in mine, and anybody else with that creed, becomes an enemy of the Constitution, an enemy of the state, and an enemy of the Republic.

Do not try to rationalize the use of the Constitution in today's society because you would be wasting your time. There is nothing to convince myself or many others that the said sacred document is any more than toilet paper to our current regime and the regime for the past century.





As I said before, which so many people aptly ignored. There is no need for huge plans and government setups. There is no need to have a method to rebuild everything. Everything we need for our government to be run the way it is supposed to be run is within that document. Everything we need in order to prevent corruption from happening again, and to weed out the problems of a modernized nation - all have been posted in this thread.

You can search for some kind of better response all you want but you will not find one. The reason I don't have a slew of plans (with exception to the few additions that need to be made) is because my founding fathers were generous enough to do it for me.



As for this topic, well, to all the would be patriots who are true advocates of freedom for all human beings, regardless of race or beliefs - then I solute you. You encompass everything our founding fathers did.

To all the would be patriots who cannot get by discrimination, racism, and differences in personal beliefs - it is time to realize that you are in control of YOURSELF - not anybody else. Nothing reserves you the right to tell people how to think or remove their UNALIENABLE right for any reason. Your hearts may be in the right place, however, you have a ways to go to protect the sovereign freedoms we are promised without sinking your teeth into the animal of tyranny.

And finally, to the anti-revolutionists, some blinded, some ignorant, some calling for peaceful rebellion, some just flat out scared for their future. Do not be any of these things. This government system has blinded you and should they be brought to justice - you shall see again. The mass media has made you ignorant, and should they be disassembled than you shall have an open mind once again. Peaceful rebellion has had its chance and it has failed - the government ignores us in earnest no matter the masses. Lastly, do not be scared - for though the times ahead will be hard and revolution does indeed mean violence and innocent bloodshed - go knowing that the future that we preserve and create will be a golden future for those who live to see it, and a prosperous future for the generations to come - a future where freedom is something we experience and not just talk fondly about.


That is my two cents, reply, debunk, do what it is you all do - I don't care. I fight for justice, civility, and freedom, and I am beyond the point of being swayed by people who would choose tyranny over salvation.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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The Revolutionary forces would need to get control of our nukes fast and let the other countries know that we are in control of them and they will not be used unless we see any hostile moves toward us or our friends.

I think if the revolutionary forces were large enough then it could be done in days.

The first and most important thing is to cut the head off the snake. All the leadership must go so there is no line of succession left to drop nukes on Revolutionary forces here on American land.

If its done right with enough current military or former military then we would not have much damage. Sadly I think Russia would try to throw in some cheap shots while we were in this process, mother Russia will get hers if she does.

It don't matter who is in control, Take a cheap shot at the U.S. and your going to get thumped hard. Our subs would strike at will if they knew something like that happened.

Restart the original Constitution and Bill of rights with the proper Amendments that are obviously needed and all would be well.

The first Amendment in it should be. No Congressmen or woman can take money from anyone and anyone caught trying to lobby will be shot on the white-house lawn without trial. No former politician can hold office ever again.

The Fed banks will be raided where ever they are in this world and our Gold will be taken back by force. The dollar will then be brought back to the gold standard.

The United Nations will be declared a hostile regime and raided for evidence of corruption and hostile intentions toward the U.S. The IMF and World Bank will get the same treatment.

The borders of this country will be closed to incoming traffic. No new immigrants without Congressional approval only after 20 years time.

A law declaring a national emergency so we can pump and dig for Oil where ever we need to as long as its 30miles away from the coast of the mainland U.S. and not near a residential area. U.S. oil or gas can never be exported unless the price of Gas to Americans at the pump is under .50 cents a gallon. If it goes above that then export is stopped.

All debts owed to the U.S. will be paid in full in five years time. If not in Gold then they will be forced to give up removable assets. IE natural recourses.

All Aid to other countries will stop immediately. We will take a countries natural resource for trade if they need Grain for food. We will not give away our life line.

We will impose a 20 percent tariff on anything imported.
No more free trade. All money will be ran through the Treasury dept before it makes it to the purchaser.

Any company caught trying to move overseas will be taken over by the U.S. for the good of the people.

A new War powers act and doctrine. Congress can be the only one to declare war. Emergency situations will be handled by Joint Chiefs and the President only in defense or rescue ops. All combat ops will be approved or disapproved by a majority Congress in one days time.

Congressmen and woman will live in the new capital in the Mid-West at a massive city sized bunker with underground high speed rail systems to travel to other bases.

Congressmen and woman will be paid 50 grand a year with the same great national health care system that everyone will now get for free.

The Homeless and unemployed people who are not seriously disabled will be be housed and will help build and maintain the new capital or do the same with any government project that needs manpower.

We will build the best most advanced military with the same going for missile defense. The National guard will be expanded and never be sent overseas.

All Mosques-Satanic churches will be smashed to the ground. God Jesus will be taught in all schools.

Canadian and Mexican coins will then be bagged up and shot across the borders in old howitzers lol.

I will be the first President of the UNITED STATES rev, II

WE ARE AMERICANS DAMMIT, WE LEAD BY EXAMPLE. WE CAN DO IT!!!
NOW GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDES!!!



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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You pose some very interesting questions. First off, Thomas Jefferson said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Back then, you were weird if you DIDN’T own a firearm, and people certainly didn’t always do what they were told. Most of the people I know these days cower in the face of tyranny, and had the people of today been the people of the colonies, there’d still be a British flag waving over our shores. I’m not England bashing here, I have several friends that are British and I was stationed there for a while and loved it.

The point here is that if a revolution occurred, it would be in the People’s interest to cast out all of the Federal laws with exception to the US Constitution. I call it the clean slate. Remember that the Constitution was originally written to be define only that which the federal government was allowed to do. It was supposed to limit the federal government because the States wanted to run their own affairs. These days, the States beg for scraps from the Federal Government, when it ought to be the other way around.

How would I personally change things, if against all odds I was somehow put into that position?

1. Recall all military forces to the US. I am a veteran and I’m still saying this. It needs to happen. We need to focus on ourselves now, not other nations. Let them deal with themselves for a change.

2. Literally destroy all facilities related to the NSA. These people have been spying on Americans for years, with a budget that doesn’t even get included in the Federal Budget the President signs into law. It’s wasteful, and I’ll simply encourage Americans to protect themselves as they would have naturally done had they lived in the colonies anyway. The government isn’t here to run your lives, or control you.

3. I’d end the Federal Reserve. The US and coined new money before, we can do it again. This time, it’ll not go through the Federal Reserve, it’ll all be issued by the Department of Treasury, as indicated in the Constitution. I know there are lots of people out there that drool over fractional reserve banking, but it’d end. The new currency would be backed by a basket of precious metals.

to be continued...



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Sky watcher
 


All Mosques-Satanic churches will be smashed to the ground. God Jesus will be taught in all schools.

Another tyrant.
Gee, funny how all you loyal patriots, lovers of The Comstitution want to throw it right out the window and replace it's articulations of freedom with totalitarian/authoritarian draconion dictatorships.
Don't like freedom of religion huh? Just ONE of the freedoms the so called "patriots" don't like.
You guys are just deluded fools.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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4. All of Congress would be out on their ass. Before a new Congress was instilled, a vote would have to be held by the American people to add some new amendments to the Constitution.

a. The first would be that no government worker (non-military) would ever be afforded any salary greater than an E-5 in the US military, and that any additional income they receive above that be taxed at the highest rate. No elected official shall be permitted to campaign on private funds, or donated funds.

b. Special favors of any sort would land the grantor and receiver a month of hard time for the first offense. We’re in this mess because of lobbyists, we need to be damn sure we never allow it to happen again.

c. An addendum to the 3rd Amendment, which stated that military forces shall not be quartered beyond the borders of the United States. The idea that we have bases all through Europe is just ridiculous. It’s a huge waste of our resources.

d. Article 1 Section 8.11 would be amended to include the provision that any hostile act engaged in by US military forces be a felony until such time that a Declaration of War is official. These Declarations of War must now state precisely where combat operations will occur, and shall not be altered or amended. The point of this is that we have bombing runs occurring now in Pakistan by our drones and it’s quite frankly, illegal. Obama knows this.

e. Another stipulation be put into law that states that Congress shall make no law that is not first viewable by the People for a period of one month prior to being forwarded to the Executive Office for signature. A subitem in this would include that no Bill shall ever be permitted to have earmarks added at any time, and to attempt to do so is a felony.

f. Congress shall introduce no legislation or act that increases the debt of the United States, nor shall the United States ever go into debt. If surpluses exist, the Federal Government is required by law to disburse the funds back to the States proportionately to their population.

I could offer more Constitutional amendments, but those are the ones that pop into mind right away.


I would also end the ability of corporations to own media sources. I would also prohibit one news agency from owning subsidiary news agencies. The idea that a hand full of corporations own and control all the main stream media is absurd and shall not continue. ATS is fantastic in that news can be provided to the people without the corporate thumb pressing down on us.

Now to the guts of all of this. The States must take back control for themselves and delegate the Federal Government to to minor role it was intended. The States must follow their own Constitutions and with all of the laws written by Federal Agencies suddenly annulled, that’s precisely what would have to happen.

I’m not saying it would be a smooth transition. It wouldn’t be easy, but take a ooh at the road we’re on right now. We’re no longer represented by Congress. They are bought by corporations in the form of campaign contributions. We are no longer represented. The President can campaign solely on Change and yet, he carries on policies he campaigned against. The Supreme Court doesn’t do enough to ensure that the other two branches are acting within the bounds of the Constitution. We have a failed Executive, a failed Legislative, and a completely wimpy Judicial. Look where we are now. There is literally no fix possible given the depths of corporate involvement and special interest lobbying.

In specific I’d like to reply to the gay marriage issue. Here’s how I’d deal with it. The US Declaration of Independence specifically states that that all men are created equal, meaning mankind. If the word marriage is one related to religion then it is something specifically prohibited from government involvement due to the separation of church and state provided in the 1st Amendment. Therefore the government has no control over it if marriage is to be considered a religious idea. I would suggest to those wishing to be married that are gay, they ought to simply be married by a religion that supports their life choices as there would no longer be government intervention.

This topic is something I’ve given a lot of thought about. I encourage everyone to debate sincerely. If things genuinely go south, it’ll be We The People who have to stand up for our States Rights under our State Constitutions, and our National rights. Get a copy of your State Constitution and start reading. They are written in a way as to be self sufficient without any Federal involvement at all. That's the way the States should operate. The Federal Government ought to be a bare-bones operation. The States are where it's at, and the Founding Fathers knew that was the only way it'd really work.

Two guesses as to were I’d tell the Department of Homeland Security to go.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe

Alright OP, time for my response, see if you can pick it apart so easily. Or if you will even try.



As you wish but this is not the intention of the thread.
Remember, you asked for it.

I wanted to learn from you, not debate you point for point.

1) Snip

Way too subjective, judicially impossible, conceptually unrealistic, ideologically schizophrenic.

2) Snip

I like the first third, but it seems all of a sudden that more than a little socialism is not such a bad thing after all then.

The profit distribution would have to be weighted according to some matrix that would reflect the real value, and the states balance would have to be based on reconciliation of that's states utilization of federal resources. (a natural disaster would break the State's economy using this policy)

The monetary system you propose, ignores, the fundamental change in what a commodity is, but you did say and other type, so we may come to terms on this one.

3) Snip

I agree 100%

4) Snip

More Socialism, actually closer to Communism, but, guess what, I agree, if we include religious organizations, private individual holdings external to the US, and foreign owned assets in the US.

5) Snip

Instant is again a pipe dream. Null and void in who's version of what Constitution, not if you mean the one you describe in clause 1. How about we use the one we have. But I agree about the contracts and bidding 100%

6) Snip

You mean make believe that we live in nirvana, and everybody loves us so much that they will not cause our destruction by proxy after we destabilize the globe, and surrender to China, Russia, and any other wannabe Superpower? No Efin way. But we could stop acting like imperialists and work with our allies to reduce our military presence on foreign soil to a minimum. We could also stop entering into wars for the profit of the MIC.

7) Snip

Here you are showing a lack of critical thinking and an ignorance of due process. Your tariff is a number you pulled out of your ear, and you would have to jail most of the people that own, and run the vehicles that drive the economy.

We need to have immigration reform that does not bankrupt the country, and that is in line with our moral fiber, and foundation as a Nation. You propose to process 12+ million people through a very complex judicial system, and adjudicate this all in 6 months. The only way to do that would be, concentration camps, gas, and ovens, and it would take years of ethnic cleansing to accomplish turning America into the Fourth Reich. There would be another Revolt, and it would be justified.

8) Snip

The Nation of Immigrants will allow no Immigration at all. We only allow people to Immigrate to be placed in jobs, and never if we have high unemployment. Sounds like the start of a caste system.

No. This Nation was created by and for Immigrants. First of all we already have quotas (LOOK IT UP). Second, who are you to want to supplant the core principles that this Nation has held as Sacred since we won our freedom from our British oppressors with some Orwellian second guessed policy rooted in xenophobia? Maybe you should be the one to leave if you hate America so much.

Would that not affect how we are received and perceived outside of the US? Would we not be considered a parasite Nation?

You are also forgetting or ignoring Religious persecution based refugees, and Racially and politically oppressed people? We are not a Nation of turncoats. I'm starting to see why you hate America.

9) Snip

I agree

10) Snip

Unabated "here" is another one of those totalitarian concepts you seem to need to satisfy you control addiction. How about? Responsible exploration etc.. with that change, I agree.

Unabated can be interpreted to include your personal property, the detriment of the environment, health of the Citizens, and the destruction of Nature and animal life to capitalize resources without due forethought and consideration for the consequences of irresponsible usage of Natural resources. I strongly disagree with this one.

11) Snip

As long as it does not include private personal information about the Citizenry, I would agree.

12) Snip

You will have to be more articulate here, a Corporation is just one of many legally defined entities. Do you know what an S.A. is? The reason Corporations exist is not only as a tax shelter. Economics is a complex discipline, you need to put in more time to come up with an equivalent facsimile in function of not in form. Look it up.

13) Snip

You are mixing 2 separate things.
GMO's fall within the realm of Science, let's allow Scientists to have more say than religious dogma, and ignorance/fear based Politically manufactured techno-phobia in our decision making process related to technology.

Crazy agricultural regulations should absolutely be repealed not reassessed.


14) Snip

Yes, Yes, Yes, but you do mean corrupt politicians, not the Mafia right?

15) Snip

Why? and what for, it's a pathetic excuse to abrogate the current one, that is used by racists and other extremists to undermine the Constitution, and the 13th amendment.


16) Snip

1. This would be stupid as according to your previous Corporate statute would have eliminated what a Corporation is. Look it up and also think it through.

2. See 1. And it's a nonsensical sentence that has no rational meaning.
Ask you English teacher.

17) Would you like me to go on?

No, spare me, you are not intellectually stimulating, and your big effort to stump me somehow with your wit, was you bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I have no interest in debating you, intellectually you are a dolt.

[/quot

Note,

I do not intend to debate everyone here just for the asking, nor do I want to have pissing contests.

READ the OP. It was not an invitation to a free for all, off topic personal battle.


Ziggy



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by OldDragger
 


Continue to ignore the relevant and coherent posts and focus your attention only to those which you can degrade any comment on.

I agree just as much as you about the hilarity of him throwing away freedom of religion, and declaring HIMSELF president in a REPUBLIC, however, you need to realize that said mentality does not represent ALL OF US.

Now stop ignoring the other ones.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


Pick and choose your battles. You make a topic asking for opinions and plans yet all you stop at nothing to try to debunk each and every one, with the exception of a few. Like a few other users, you like to target those that are racial or discrimination driven in order to prove your point, yet you ignore those with rationale.

You are attacking almost all of your points with the mentality of "No that is impossible." and that is about it. Basically you are revealing about yourself that you either have very little motivation or no hope whatsoever in attaining something that might stand a little farther from your grasp than you would be accustom to.

But then again, this current America makes people used to hand outs and free passes, so this is understandable. Don't worry, we aren't going to ask you to implement these changes, we understand that to you - such things would be impossible, but to those who understand reality, we realize that nothing is impossible.




Did this country not survive on the Constitution alone for MANY, MANY years before corrupt politicians and the federal reserve took control? Tell me, what is any different today than it was yesterday with exception to technological advancements? Ideologies are the same. The system is essentially the same.


*Edit - spelling errors and clarification.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by gwydionblack]



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Sky watcher
 


All Mosques-Satanic churches will be smashed to the ground. God Jesus will be taught in all schools.

Another tyrant.
Gee, funny how all you loyal patriots, lovers of The Comstitution want to throw it right out the window and replace it's articulations of freedom with totalitarian/authoritarian draconion dictatorships.
Don't like freedom of religion huh? Just ONE of the freedoms the so called "patriots" don't like.
You guys are just deluded fools.


Just for the record, as a veteran, I'll uphold the Constitution, especially the First Amendment. I've seen up close and personal what religious extremists are like. They've gotten to see what happens when they confront a hunter. They didn't fare well. The express separation of church and state exists for a very important reason. It makes sure that religion can't dictate policy, or favor one belief over others.

I agree with you though. Lots of these people want a totalitarian regime that only supports their own beliefs, the rest will get slaughtered.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by bpg131313
 


4. All of Congress would be out on their ass. Before a new Congress was instilled, a vote would have to be held by the American people to add some new amendments to the Constitution.

Another tyrant whose first move would be to destroy the Constitution.
Yeah great, who "removes' Congress. Armed thugs? And you ignore The Constitutional process for Amendments. Great respect for The Consitution.
EVERY POST BY SO CALLED PATRIOTS CONSISTS OF FIRST DESTROYING THE CONSTITUTION AND REPLACING IT BY MOB RULE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA BY FORCE OF ARMS!!
That is a dictatorship, a complete disregard for every hope and ambition the founders had for this nation, plus a spit in the face to everyone that has sacrificed to preserve our freedoms.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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My god this is a good thread! We've needed to hear this debate for a long time now I believe, cheers to the OP for getting it going! This is an absolutely excellent to finally hear what the revolutionaries real plan is.

Now that I have heard it, I hate your plan! I would never want to live in that kind of Libertarian Aynd Rand world, especially with such totalitarian ideas of bringing it about. Being a Briton, I will be dead before I see the UK's greatest ally and the world's most powerful nation fall to you. As a journalist, it is my job to make the world aware of such deep despotic threats to civilization.

However, I do not believe you will win, or come anywhere close to it really. Your numbers are far too few, reaching at best the level of the Militia Movement in the 1990s. You are facing a modern military and law enforcement system that, not only has you outnumbered one hundred to one, but has far better training, strategy, knowledge, experience, tactics and equipment. Even if, on the one in a billion chance that you do win the United States, the world will unite to stop you. We have united behind the fight against tyranny before, and we have won.

Finally though, I doubt you will even get to the point of being a major threat. You have a disjointed and egotistical support base. You have been, rightly, mocked in public for your Tea Party protests. You have no strong leader or generally agreed upon rallying point except for anger and hatred for the government. You have been talking about such revolution for years, and I have seen nothing beyond some minor tax revolts and militias that failed miserably. As soon as you do act however, and commit some terrorist act that will kill many innocent people, you will loose the middle ground, anyone with sympathy will be reviled by your actions. Exactly the same thing happened to the American White Supremacist movement after the Oklahoma City bombing.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 01:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by bpg131313
 


4. All of Congress would be out on their ass. Before a new Congress was instilled, a vote would have to be held by the American people to add some new amendments to the Constitution.

Another tyrant whose first move would be to destroy the Constitution.
Yeah great, who "removes' Congress. Armed thugs? And you ignore The Constitutional process for Amendments. Great respect for The Consitution.
EVERY POST BY SO CALLED PATRIOTS CONSISTS OF FIRST DESTROYING THE CONSTITUTION AND REPLACING IT BY MOB RULE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA BY FORCE OF ARMS!!
That is a dictatorship, a complete disregard for every hope and ambition the founders had for this nation, plus a spit in the face to everyone that has sacrificed to preserve our freedoms.


The founding fathers were armed thugs according to your views. They didn't ask the British to leave and they said, "bye folks, best wishes." Congress wouldn't leave willingly. The only reason I'd get rid of Congressmen we have now is that they've all been bought. That doesn't mean they won't be replaced. They will be replaced with new elections that aren't contributed to by private interests and corporations. And for the record, I fought over 13 years supporting my Constitution, to hell with you for even suggesting that I'd ever defile it. The private interests and lobbyists have destroyed this nation, not the Constitution. Mob rule is what we have now, they just wear suits and smirk at us.









 
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