ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

Originally posted by DeathShield
Yes you are right they are americans and as such they are subject to the same exact rights as the revolutionaries or anyone else.

If that was the case why then do you say

so that they can be properly arraigned) or used violence to resist arrest or relief of duties.

What gives you the right to arrest them, or relieve them of their duties? They must have the same right to arrest you....

They are subject to a fair trial just like any other person for their crimes against this nation.

except they have not committed any crimes...

reply to post by Subjective Truth


Subjective you bring up a good point. There are many ways and paths to take before we ever are even close to what would amount to a Revolution/Civil War.

What kills me and Ive stated here a couple pages back and is why I was even weary about posting here, was this was a loaded question (why the prefix of a 'certain' type of people) that was designed to bring out the extreme population that resides here on ATS. That way when reasonable people posted here, they all can be clumped in as crazies and wackos.

Just my view of course

reply to post by dereks



Really? So actively oppressing gay people is not a crime? Telling Bar owners they can't let people smoke in their bars no matter how many filtration systems they install is not a crime? Accepting bribes from corporations and special interest groups in order to pass a piece of legislation is not a crime? What fantasy world are you living in ? Because last time i checked if i were to grow a Cannabis plant for the production of HEMP ( not marijuana) i could get arrested and thrown into a federal prison. Last time i checked every 18 seconds someone was being arrested on "drug charges" and 800,000 people last year got arrested for possessing marijuana. Meanwhile teens are overdosing on over the counter medicines and are being sent to prison for being addicted to drugs. You honestly expect me to believe these are not crimes?

You live in a fantasy world.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


What kills me and Ive stated here a couple pages back and is why I was even weary about posting here, was this was a loaded question (why the prefix of a 'certain' type of people) that was designed to bring out the extreme population that resides here on ATS. That way when reasonable people posted here, they all can be clumped in as crazies and wackos.

Ok, so when people who identify themselves as "patriots", Tea partiers etc. post crazy stuff, it's the fault of others?
A loaded question? Who twisted their arms to post?
I have no trouble ignoring threads here, what compelled these self proclaimed revolutionaries? Sorry, despite the insistence from a few posters that the majority of "revolutionaries" are rational people, the evidence seems to indicate quite the opposite. You are asking us to ignore the reality of what has been posted in favor of your personal insistence that the truth is the opposite of what we have read with our own eyes.

Originally posted by Polynomial C


You people are so weird and funny ( and full of hypocrisy)

like everybody else who thinks they 'know' the answer then? Myself included.


Abductee

Originally posted by DeathShield
Really? So actively oppressing gay people is not a crime?

how are they oppressed?

Telling Bar owners they can't let people smoke in their bars no matter how many filtration systems they install is not a crime?

No it is not, non smokers have the right to air not polluted by the stink and crap filthy smokers put out

Because last time i checked if i were to grow a Cannabis plant for the production of HEMP ( not marijuana) i could get arrested and thrown into a federal prison.

drug addicts need protecting

Last time i checked every 18 seconds someone was being arrested on "drug charges" and 800,000 people last year got arrested for possessing marijuana.

just shows there are a lot of silly drug addicts out there

Then someone answer this what are you going to do with the survivors of the massacre that don't agree with you ?? what if they want to express their views ?? what if they want to REVOLVE against you? what is your "Constitution loving" government going to do about them ?

So you say want a revolution?......
As im sure most of you good folks are aware, the great Patriot said those who would make a peaceful revolution impossible; make a violent revolution inevitable.
Another great Patriot, Albert Einstein, said this: You cannot solve a problem with the thinking that created the problem. How should we go about the revolution? Peaceably. We must truly let "the power of love overcome the love of power". And that starts with you, and it starts with me....We MUST change our thinking. It starts like this:
1. Our good and faithful President wants community organizers? Become one. Start talking to your neighbors again. Get to know them. Engage them in conversation on the topics of Liberty, our Constitution, and what role the US Gov. they think should have in their daily lives....what about the city council?
2. The next step is once you have a decent sized town or city where you are at least familiar with the various groups in that city, to run for office....yes You. As an experiment, lets say you run for city council. Doesnt matter if you win or lose. What matters is that people now know that you care about them, truly; because you will.
3. Attempt to persuade the people in your city to change the way they elect their city council. I propose a secret ballot at the lowest level with no one actively "running for the office", rather the criteria be this- Loyalty, Efficiency, Assertiveness, Duty, Respect, Self-less service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage..... Who in your community do you think is the best example of these characteristics? The person with the most votes is then presented with an opportunity to serve his/her city.
4. Once someone has served a term of time prescribed by the people, AND is still found to espouse these virtues then they may be selected by the people of the district (various local cities) to run against other city leaders in the district to represent them in the House of Representatives or the Senate.
If at ANY time, the people being of consensus, feel they are not being truly represented under these virtues they may reserve the right to open public hearings with said person present, the end result being a vote of either Confidence or No Confidence
The latter resulting in a new elected official being raised to said position.

Imagine if you can, the whole of our country running on this mechanism,right on up to electing the President! I believe these virtues to be indiscriminate of race, religion, sex, or credo.
The next step in this peaceful revolution is for the law to reflect that our rights are just that: RIGHTS, not privileges. That no piece of paper can give them, or take them away....only We the People can do that. (exception to this being if one commits and is convicted of a crime). The supreme law governing this being that any person may do whatever they wish with themselves or their property so long as they bring neither damage nor harm to anyone else, in particular people who are dependent on them (i.e. children, spouse/mate, or elderly).
In closing, once We the People have formed a more perfect union, and the majority of men, women, and children strive to attain these virtues, there would be no need for money. With no money, barter, or trade system, and all peoples basic needs taken care of for free - all man could be gainfully employed enough to make us all truly Prosperous...that is, about 15-20 hours a week.
Do I think this would solve all the worlds problems? No; but it's a start. And, if I may be permitted to quote John Lennon once again: "You may say that i'm a dreamer, but im not the ONLY one. I hope someday you'll join US; and the world will be as one."

reply to post by dereks



...you have no concept of liberty whatsoever. Last time i checked gay people couldn't visit their dying partners in the hospital and there is even attempts to pass legislation to prevent them from adopting kids. As for the war on drugs references, wow, just wow, goes to show how much independent thinking you actually do.

Originally posted by DeathShield
Last time i checked gay people couldn't visit their dying partners in the hospital

So what stops them - a sign at the hospital "No Gays Allowed" backed up buy security with a gay sniffing dog or the anti gay police patrolling the hospital running a Gayalyzer over everyone....

reply to post by dereks



Actually security stops them and they are escorted out of the hospital. I have seen it happen first hand.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by DeathShield]

reply to post by OldDragger


The question is loaded in the way it is framed. Why not simply ask the question: If you get your Revolution, Then What? The aim is inferred, but instead the prefixes were placed as to incite and slant the overall conversation towards making a certain type of people look nuts. Has the OP even addressed their own thread since page one? Or has he sat back and marveled at what they have started because its now a Us V. Them, rather than an actual discussion.

I do not disagree nor am I saying that the majority (that have posted here) are rational or reasonable, but overall, you and your ilk have found a nice little thread you can just paint as you see fit. Instead of addressing the more reasonable and logical comments, you have willfully chosen to only focus on the more extreme comments.

If you notice, there comments are only furthered because they are addressed. If you ignore the obviously extreme comments, they go away, but you insist to feed the troll.

So when you decide to humble yourself and come hang out with the real folk and walk amongst us mortals, I am sure there are a lot here that would love to have a rational, reasonable debate and discussion over ideas. Ideas that promote what could be done before we are even close to a supposed revolution/civil war. Ideas on what things need to change and what needs tweaking. Ideas that may not be anything near perfect, but through those discussions and talks will become stronger and better for the whole of the people.

For some reason, I feel you will not and only continue with your wholesale attack on people you find delusional.

The only way out of our current mess is for the states to revoke federal control.
Won't need to be violent, they will be broke and have no monetary value to the federal government, and an easy out to repudiate the national debt.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


You know for the most part i do not advocate violence as a means of revolution, i think what Blood0fHeroes posted is a plausible method of revolution although i fear reality will dictate otherwise. like i said before, violence is the last and least favorable option yet people like DEREKS ignored that statement and painted it as if that was the ONLY option we see. I don't get why people do this. I guess a thirst for power over others is that strong.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


do not disagree nor am I saying that the majority (that have posted here) are rational or reasonable, but overall, you and your ilk have found a nice little thread you can just paint as you see fit.

There is an old saying that you cannot choose your family.
Well these people ARE your family. they are who you cast your lot with.
if I were you, that would give me pause to say the least. You act as if all the crazy posts don't matter because you have some intellectual argument.
My ilk is pointing out that the majority of so called revolutionaries have no direction, no philosophy, no NUTHIN, just anger. And to pretend Obama isn't the focus of these people is dishonest. kinda nullifies your intellectual approach to deny it.

reply to post by OldDragger


Continue with your broad strokes. I have clearly placed a line between those that are just blindly advocating grabbing a gun and going around shooting whomever and those that are taking the time to bring about a civil discussion into what needs to change.

I chose to clump you because of your use of the pronoun 'we', as you have placed yourself into that category.

Since the back and forth between you and I has become off-topic I shall defer any response to U2U if you wish.

Post Script as to not put up an additional post:

As Death stated and I am in agreement. The fervor of a lot of people isn't as simple as you put it....being President Obama is in office. Many policies have been shoved down the throats of American people and eventually it has to come to an apex. Nothing in politics ever runs parallel and eventually they will come to a point that meets.

Another quick point is you keep asking WHERE were all you people during Bush 2.0, Clinton, Bush 1.0, Reagan, Carter, etc...... Not everyone was a member of this site and some people have found it recently. This is not the beginning nor the end of discussion and meeting places for such talks as you have made it out to be.


Post-Post Script
I should have clarified and not directly attributed to you that you have engineered this thread solely for the purpose to paint those that wish to lay blame on President Obama. My purpose for such a tenacious stance is because how it is slated and I do understand you are trying to get those that attribute themselves to such movements to give you some feedback. Apologies to you.
[edit on 2-1-2010 by ownbestenemy]

[edit on 3-1-2010 by ownbestenemy]

reply to post by OldDragger



I'll have you know i have been crying for revolution since the first time the patriot act was renewed, since the republicans had control of congress. Many of us were protesting bush signing the bailout.

reply to post by DeathShield

I've been arrested for carrying a bag of plants, and have been harassed by cops for half my life. I am familiar with oppression. After the patriot act was passed things got REALLY bad in my town with police harassment

Uh huh, right, are you sure that's police oppression or paranoia brought on by the effects of that "bag of plants"?

So far we have you as a drug using, Jewish Neo-Nazi. Can we say CONFUSED? It's either your quite confused, or completely lying.

If your confused, that's one thing, but if your lying. Well, that creates problems with your credibility now doesn't it?

No fractional reserve banking
No retirement for politicians
Flat % federal income tax on individuals, marriage of any kind is a religious rite and government should not be involved.
Cut out all bureaucratic committees which should be done on local and state levels according to the Constitution.
No senator or representative of one state should have influence over the residents of another state.
If communities and/or states by way of public vote decide upon a type of redistribution of wealth (voluntary socialism) then by all means they have that right at the same time if residents of another state vote to be responsible for one's own self that is their right too. That's the beauty of the Constitution that not all the states be homogenized into the Progressive faith, they can each believe what they want (me being agnostic) as long as they do not infringe upon others right and still be under a nation that protects those rights.
Will add more later.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


So now that you have embarrassed yourselves incessantly on this thread, the conclusion is that the questions was loaded, and the posting somehow coordinated.

I posed my question as I did because I wanted to learn what exactly the specific groups calling for revolts/insurrections/revolutions/overthrow of the GOV have in mind by way of specific policies, amendments etc.

You think I should have invited who to post? Liberals? Obama loving Democrats? Notice what I excluded was the Democrats, and the Republicans.

Why is it nothing can be just what it is? I have been a member here since June 08, I have posted around 100 responses, and I have started exactly 1 thread. So what was I doing Research for Obama since before he got elected? because ATS is so vital to the administration, that they knew enough to infiltrate you, and have me and other be sleepers in case Obama got elected and you guys started bashing him, he would be on top of it and embarrass less than 50 of you for a few days? Because he knew that there would be Birthers, and Teabaggers, and the master plan is to make you guys sound extreme to rational Americans by inviting you to articulate how you would change the USA if he was to be overthrown by violent insurrection?

Your personal theory is that I planned this because I'm so devious, that I figured out how to bait only the most rabid of all the "Conservatives" by typing the names of their respective self assigned affiliations, and asking them to layout the plan of action should their wish for a "whatever you want to call it" comes true and they had a chance to reset everything?

1. If he's that freaking cunning you guys are toast already.

2. If he's that freaking cunning, then he's the Man for the job.

3. That's a bunch of crap. I don't know any of these posters, I have seen a couple of names in some threads but that's it.

I just wanted to hear the ideas outside of Obama firefights, and Racism centric threads. Not to hose you, the opposite, to try to understand you better. I knew you could screw up and do what you did, but I have no control over that. I was hoping maybe you would.

Not that I think you care what I think, but for the record, all you guys did was convince me that most of you are completely insane.

I tried to stay out of direct debates, but your buddy that's rewriting the Constitution on the other thread with the deceptive title felt he had to confront me with his half baked 16 points and the wise ass remark numbered 17, and dare me to rebut his half baked dribble. When I take him up on his asinine dare, he runs and starts another thread so he can get help from others, and not have to deal with the mess some of you made here.

By the way, talk about shady, if you go to that thread, it states that the the OP on the new thread was his response to my OP, his response on the new thread has numerous points added that are not on his original response but are presented as being part of the original draft. That is not the case.

They should be labeled as added after the fact, or colored yellow as edits.

You claim "some" posters only debated the worst of the "Conservatives", care to name them?

Which of your comrades was it that according to your revisionism were spouting extremes, and racism on this thread? Care to name them?

To that point, who is it "you" debate? Isn't it the people you most strongly disagree with? or the ones that affront you? or attack you?

Those are the ones I usually argue with. You are not suggesting that to have a fair debate you must only argue the mildest differences for fear of making your opponent look, or sound bad?

The point of debates, and elections, is to beat the other guy, not make him look good.

You can't have it both ways, you can't say things that make you sound bad, or stupid, or racist, or ignorant, and blame it on a third party who asked a question you are debating with another person. That is absurd.

Some, or most of you, came off as unfocused, disorganized, and devoid of any sort of insight into your own ideologies, save for the individuals pet peeve as a demand, and the repetition of tired and ridiculous tirades about the Constitution where on one breath you tout it when it's convenient, and then bash it on the next breath when someone points out some inconvenient hole, auto-abrogation, or contradiction in your interpretation.

You say you (collectively) are for freedom. but you sure do like to throw the words mandatory, and by force around for freedom lovers.

Obama is a Socialist because, he wants Nationalized Banks, and Health Care right?

Tell me. The Banking and Health Care components of your "new", "restarted", "rewritten", whatever you wind up calling it, bogus Constitution, are they Nationalized? Because that is Socialism right? and the New America you guys are building is not Socialist Country right?

Another thing, when the "New" GOV takes over, what happens to the national debt. I mean under the new policies you guys propose, any idiot can see there is math problem.

You would have to basically renege on, or wipe the slate clean to abolish Property Taxes, or fund massive Military and National Guard expansion.
Additionally, there is another problem. Isolation, if we were to say, just by the awesome imaginary might of our overextended military, decide to flip the bird at China and the IMF by saying for instance, we're not paying you, and we are taking anything you own in the US and Nationalizing it. What do you think they could, or would do under these circumstances?

You do realize that the relative size of the States Militia Force has to increase commensurately with the diminution of the size of the Central GOV in order to assure "domestic tranquility" right? That could become rather complicated if we were to for instance, Militarize the borders?

Cause you're not so deluded that you actually think our Vets are like the Spartans, so well trained that we don't need the Military to be huge because every American Veteran is a Soldier ready for deployment right?

You do realize that the reason the US keeps certain strategic bases around the world is in the event that there should be a need for fast deployment.
Also having many serves as a deceptive tactic cause if we only had a couple of big ones, THE ENEMY would know where we are coming from?

Anyway, you're wrong, Period

I would also like to add that if businesses no matter what the size fail due to mismanagement or unethical tactics they should be allowed to fail. People have not lost their skills and knowledge, they will collaborate with others and as a result help the small and middle size businesses flourish, people learn from their mistakes and make better decisions and products. A good analogy is when that big dead oak falls to the ground it gives sunlight to the little trees and as a result more businesses, more innovation, more creative people are able to grow. Subsidies for one company will alway discriminate against the companies who are not subsidized and regulations will always give an unfair advantage to the one that are not regulated, it should be all or nothing, never let government play favorites or you risk crony capitalism and/or fascism. We haven't had a free market society in this nation for quite some time now, not in my lifetime that I have seen.