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Ireland Bans Blasphemy

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posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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Not actually, no Canada does not have anything like this on its books. Its actually a rather young nation, and our Constitution would make this impossible.




posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 



Excuse me I am lying?? I posted the direct material from wikipedia..the most popular active encyclopedia..neutral by any stance. I posted exactly what is mentioned there. Infact it was you is lying and misrepresenting laws.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by FirstRonin

Ireland Bans Blasphemy


blasphemy.ie

From today, 1 January 2010, the new Irish blasphemy law becomes operational, and we begin our campaign to have it repealed. Blasphemy is now a crime punishable by a €25,000 fine. The new law defines blasphemy as publishing or uttering matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby intentionally causing outrage among a substantial number of adherents of that religion, with some defences permitted.
(visit the link for the full news article)
It's about time!
This is a brave move.




[edit on 1-1-2010 by FirstRonin]



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Not actually, no Canada does not have anything like this on its books. Its actually a rather young nation, and our Constitution would make this impossible.


The Criminal Code of Canada lists blasphemous libel as a crime; but the Code's provision contravenes provisions in the superseding Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Yes, and the Charter of Rights takes supremacy and is our constitution to any old archaic rules. Furthermore if they tried anything like this in Canada, it would be ended quickly. They would not hold office again.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


hi denv.please correct me if i`m wrong, but didn`t ireland vote away the whole of their sovereign rights and the rest of europes when they voted yes on the lisbon treaty



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by the_denv

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
First, your "news" link is to a blog.


WRONG, its hosted on an Irish government server.


Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
Second, your link to the new blasphemy law is a link to a 2009 Defamation law and it doesn't mention blasphemy once.


WRONG AGAIN!
Page 26:


36.—(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on
indictment to a fine not exceeding \25,000.



Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
What's up? Am I missing something?

YES, the ability to read and think for yourself rather than immediately agreeing with the MOD without doing your own research.


Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I think you've been duped...


Really?
The dupe is on YOU sir. Some people
VERY quick to snap at people without even reading the law. If only the internet offered e-slaps, I would send you one.


Uh oh... please go back to the same page and read the post I made immediately after that one...


Originally posted by the_denv

Originally posted by FirstRonin
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 

I was aware this was a "blog" but still felt it was news. Sorry if I used the wrong posting style for this.


Mate, mo carra; never automatically say sorry without knowing that you were right and these people do not know how to do their homework.


I guess you didn’t read the very next post after the one you that you accuse me of not doing my homework. For your ease in finding it, it is here. Now, I understand that you are upset with this law but that does not give you the right to denigrate people who are honestly trying to assess the situation in a rational manner. Recognize also that your helpful information of it being a government server was posted AFTER I made the comments I did. It is only reasonable for me to expect an apology from you as none has been given me since your tirade. I KNOW you’ve read my response in which I apologized to OP for missing that section of the law so, now, what will you do? Assumptions, my dear the_denv, always make a$$es out of people – myself included.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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the reason that user brought muslims into it is because they will jump on the chance to use this law to their advantage. believe or not i don't care but from what i personally have seen they will milk the hades out of this law as they start to immigrate to the emerald isle. 10 years from now you will probaly start seeing shari courts opening in dublin.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
Okay I found out the answer. For those who are not aware like me, I'll post here:

What is blasphemy? blasphemy -
Ans. There are no dictionary result for blasphemy. Blasphemy is irreverence toward holy personages, religious artifacts, customs, and beliefs.

What religions are covered in blasphemy?
Ans. Abrahamic religions which are 3
* Judaism
* Christiniaty
* Islam

Not sure but I think these religions do not have or cover any blasphemy rule like thing
* Hinduism
* Buddhism
* Confucianism
* Taoism.


Instead of trying to define blasphemy wouldn't it be more appropriate to go to the source of the subject at hand for the definition?


36.—(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on
indictment to a fine not exceeding \25,000.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters
blasphemous matter if—
(a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive
or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any
religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial
number of the adherents of that religion, and
(b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the
matter concerned, to cause such outrage.

(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this
section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would
find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value
in the matter to which the offence relates.
(4) In this section “religion” does not include an organisation or
cult—
(a) the principal object of which is the making of profit, or
(b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation—
(i) of its followers, or
(ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:33 PM
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This is the relevant article in the Irish Constitution (article 40.6.1):

"The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law. "

www.taoiseach.gov.ie...



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by GrimTroll
 



Blasphemy laws are in 31 countries I mentioned above, surely you must be in any one of them if not then ermm..gl to you.


There is no blasphemy law in the U.S. From the wikipedia article you linked above but must NOT have read:


United States of America
Main article: Blasphemy law in the United States of America

A prosecution for blasphemy in the United States would fail as a violation of the U.S. Constitution. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . . ."

Accordingly, the United States has no laws against "religious insult" or "hate speech".[citation needed] (Note, however, that the United States does prosecute against "hate crimes", for which allegations of "hate speech" can be entered in evidence.


Actually, I don't know how you missed it because this is the FIRST PARAGRAPH in the wikipedia article you linked:


In some countries, blasphemy is not a crime. In the United States of America, for example, a prosecution for blasphemy would violate the Constitution according to the decision in Joseph Burstyn, Inc v. Wilson. The United Kingdom abolished its laws in England and Wales against blasphemy in 2008. In Europe, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe has recommended that countries enact laws that protect the freedom of expression. Some countries, especially countries which have Islam as the state religion, regard blasphemy as a serious offence. Pakistan, for example, has legislation which makes execution a penalty for blasphemy.


[edit on 1/1/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by the_denv
 


Funny how many members here attacked Ireland for passing these laws when US/ EU and rest of 29 countries already practices these laws. That's why it's always good to see if one is living in a house of glass before attacking other's house. Now the ppl criticising Ireland would look like a fool when their own countries have these laws.


Uh oh, now see? Another assumption gone bad... Too bad you didn't read your own link and just assumed those 31 countries had blasphemy laws...



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


This article in the Irish Times explains why the amendment was passed:

"THE GOVERNMENT’S decision to introduce a new law on blasphemy was last night defended by Minister for Health Mary Harney who said advice from the Attorney General said it was essential.

[.../...]

At the moment there is no crime of blasphemy on the statute books, though it is prohibited by the Constitution."

Full article: www.irishtimes.com...



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Yes but my idea was to know in general/ globally what blasphemy is not as per each country. Though thank you for the definition. Also I included USA because it does prosecute for hate speech which comes closely associated with blasphemy.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by ziggystrange

But I'm sure a lot of Christians will be salivating at the mere thought of this.



Your above comment is exactly HOW laws like this get passed. The generalization of any group -- be it by race, religion, or shoe-size -- is foolish and as ridiculous as this law.

Why would Christians be salivating any more than any other group that doesn't want their religion bashed, targeted, or ridiculed?

The problem with this law is NOT the idea of it -- but rather its implementation. I read through it and it is very vague and very general. I can also see how it can easily be amended to include other groups -- such as political -- and then of course, it would at its worse include speaking out against the government as a whole.

People need to understand that any and all legislature that violates free speech need to be protested and shut down. We already have protections against violence, stalking, assaults, etc.... but to extend it to mere words? Nothing good will come of it.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Yes but my idea was to know in general/ globally what blasphemy is not as per each country. Though thank you for the definition. Also I included USA because it does prosecute for hate speech which comes closely associated with blasphemy.


No it does not. It prosecutes for hate CRIMES. Hate speech may be entered into evidence for hate crimes but it does NOT prosecute hate SPEECH.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by jeanvaljean
This is the relevant article in the Irish Constitution (article 40.6.1):

"The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law. "

www.taoiseach.gov.ie...


Wow! So if I'm reading that right then this blasphemy law IS constitutional. Wow... I had no idea but then again I'm not Irish.



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


Here's another article from the Irish Times which explains Dermot Ahern's decision:

"OPINION: Successive governments have been advised to reform the law on blasphemy; the only alternative to legislation would be a referendum, writes DERMOT AHERN.

[.../...]

The key point here is that successive attorneys general have advised the various ministers for justice, in the context of the reform of defamation law and the repeal of the 1961 Act, that article 40.6.1.i of the Constitution imposes an obligation to implement the constitutional offence of blasphemy."

Full article: www.irishtimes.com...



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


Good find - I didn't realise that this was a true law.

But to be honest I would side with Mary Harney and say this was a necessary law to be introduced to ratify the constitution and not something that was introduced to be a penalisation of peoples rights.

But in all honesty - (I presume your from Ireland) - can you actually see this being enforced - I really cannot - in fairness Ireland is pretty liberal in almost all areas.

Anyways - even if the government did try and enforce it - most people would ignore it - the Irish have always had a healthy disrespect for the law!



posted on Jan, 1 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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ah the slow tumble into stupidity thanks again to religious fretting in...well Ireland.

Are the Irish really doing this, because I was of the mind that they were tired of shooting at each other, bombing each other and having to be handled like a pack of delinquents by the Queen's army?

Who elects people that even suggest such utter...well stupidity?

Mirrors reflect.




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