Originally posted by On the Edge
Then what do you make of Romans 3:23,that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"?
Or Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved,not by works,so that no man should boast.
I reject Paul and consider him to be a false prophet. Where as Jesus is an example of that which I was taught, Paul is the example of what I was
taught not to do.
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth
Jesus gives that understanding. Jesus did not come for the rigtheous, he came for sinners. To bring them to repentance. Sins = mistakes.
Repents = fix/change. To repent for your sins is to change your "way".
Jesus shows the way. In terms of the Genesis I quoted earlier, I bolded the part that is the "way of the tree of life". Jesus shows that way for
those who "believe".
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but
whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the
kingdom of heaven.
So for Paul to say otherwise I think is addressed by Jesus before Paul ever said it.
Here is what Jesus says right before the rich man comes to him.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
Remember, the "way". He is showing you the "way" of the tree of life. The way to "life", which is to keep the commandments. Never does
Jesus say anything less than this.
It also says in James 2:20,that "Faith without works is dead."
This is a Jesus quote, and as you can see is a contridiction of Paul.
Certainly we are to do all we can to keep His laws,but we "fall short".
Which is why we need His grace and forgiveness,correct?
The grace of Jesus is that he did what he did when he didn't have to. He did it to try and show the path to others. He could have just lived his
sin free life in silence and so forth, and as he was sinfree he didn't have to be here. But it is his grace that he put the lives above others -
even mostly towards sinners, to try and help them and show them the way.
It is just a myth that you will fall short to keep you from trying. Jesus never says you will fall short, he says you will do even greater.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
John 6:44,"No man comes to the Father but by me."
That's what I believe,anyway. That's the message of the new testament!
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You are quoting John 14:6 I think.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
In that passage he defines himself as the "way the truth and the life" for a reason. He is saying that is only by those things that you can find
him. This is a popular quote among Christians.
However, lets peek down a little further in that chapter if you don't mind. It is the part that explains my experience and also proves the above
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your
remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Don't see many Christians talking about that part do we?
See, if the verse you quoted was meant in the way of "Jesus", rather than "the way, the truth and the life", then this would be a contridiction.
Because Jesus talks about those who will hear the father, not him. Which according to the Christian doctrine, only by "Jesus" can one come by the
father. However, what they do not realize is that they are reducing "Jesus" down to just an idol. In which case it becomes Idol worship.
Especially when people "Worship Jesus" - big time no no. Jesus tells you directly - do not worship him, worship the father which is greater than
I know for a fact,I'd be "lost" without the Word of God!
I'm sorry to inform you that you are simply poor in spirit. That is not a bad thing, you are blessed and so forth. Poor in spirit just means you
do not have wisdom and understanding about the holy. It is called poor, because what is considered rich in the eyes of the father is wisdom and
knowledge, which is of more value than the worlds finest gold.
But you are blessed because you have not rejected the truth, as you have not known it. You see, in order to get a man to do evil things, you need
only deceive those who are good. If the man was evil, then you could just tell the truth and they would do the evil. Thus you as well as many
others(majority) have been decieved into doing the things you do. "Bless them father for they know not what they do." When the understanding
comes to those who are poor in spirit, they will accept it, embrace it and so forth. And then they will be rich in spirit. All will have to be
rich in spirit before they can live in a heavenly society.
For example. The bible is not the word of god. When you have elevated it to that, then you have then made it a replacement for the true word of
god. If Parts of the bible are inspired, then the true word of god would have been the word those people heard. You are replacing the father
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Scribes = those who write/copy scripture. You are making the scripture your authority. Again, a replacement for the father.
This is not to say the bible is bad. It is easily one of my favorite books. But you can elevate as a replacement for god, because then you are not
putting it in it's proper place.
Lets say you are building a house. You have the roof and you have the foundation. You can go out and buy the most choice material in the world to
build that house out of. But if you elevate the foundation above the roof, then your house is going to fall. That doesn't mean the roof or the
foundation were bad, it means they weren't in the proper place, thus they were unable to do their purpose/function.
Because even the poor man can go out and buy cheap materials to build his house with. And based on his understanding, he will put he roof above the
foundation, and his house will stand.
All things need to be in their proper places. Thus what Jesus means when he says "The pharisees sit in the seat of moses". They were not in the
This is why Jesus was murdered. Because Jesus by spreading understanding was undermining the authority those others falsely claimed by showing
people the true authority, the true way and the true life. He was murdered so they could keep their system on earth - he was murdered because of
the sins of men.
This is why idols are so bad in the bible. Because the idol becomes the replacement for the understanding.
Take the last super. Do you know what that is about? What the blood, body and such stand for? It's Proverbs 9.
1Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
2She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.
3She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,
4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,
5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.
6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.
7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.
8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Wisdom builds the house. Jesus = carpenter. You have the wine and the bread wisdom says to come eat of. So, when Jesus says those things, he is
feeding them with wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Which as established in Psalm 111:10 is required for keeping the commandments, which are
required to keep in order to keep the way of the tree of life, and thus eternal life. His life is the example.
But this is all replaced with a blood sacrifice ritual, blind faith(acceptence) or understanding and so forth by Paul and the church.
6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
Jesus says at one point: Go learn what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, for I come not for the righteous, but sinners to repentence.
I can go on if you like.
[edit on 1/1/2010 by badmedia]