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posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


I am going to answer this last question, and then if you insist on staying off topic, I will simply not respond to your further question.

Is American Express Travel Services "A' "Single" "Single Location" "Travel Agency" "Owned and Operated" "Operated" "Operated" "Operated" by a Power that Be...

Or is it a huge multinational credit card services, and travel company, that has it's own tour packages, travelers checks, and thousands of locations?

Is it owned by "A" single entity or is it a "PUBLIC" "COMPANY" "TRADED" "ON" "WALL STREET".

In fact what I said was correct there is no power that be that owns "A" Travel Agency, that I know of. As in a Travel Agency that only exists for the sole and primary purpose to book his travel through a single location.


American Express Company (AXP)


That's there New York Stock Exchange Call Sign.


American Express Company, a payments and travel company, provides charge and credit payment card products, and travel-related services worldwide. It operates in two groups, the Global Consumer Group and the Global Business-to-Business Group. The Global Consumer Group offers a range of products and services, including charge and credit card products, consumer travel services, and stored value products, such as Travelers Cheques and prepaid products. The Global Business-to-Business Group provides business travel, corporate cards, and other expense management products and services; network services; and merchant acquisition, and merchant processing, point-of-sale, servicing and settlement, and marketing products and services for merchants. The company also publishes luxury lifestyle magazines. American Express sells its products and services to various customer groups, including consumers, small businesses, middle-market companies, large corporations, and banking and financial institutions through various channels, such as direct mail, Internet, employee and independent third party sales forces, and direct response advertising. American Express was founded in 1850 and is headquartered in New York, New York.


That's there company profile.


Mr. Kenneth I. Chenault , 58
Chairman, Chief Exec. Officer, Member of Operating Committee, Chairman of American Express Travel Related Services Company Inc and Chief Exec. Officer of American Express Travel Related Services Company Inc $ 7.36M $ 5.14M
Mr. Alfred F. Kelly Jr., 50
Pres, Head of Global Consumer Group and Member of Operating Committee $ 4.97M $ 0
Mr. Daniel T. Henry , 60
Chief Financial Officer, Exec. VP and Member of Operating Committee $ 3.03M $ 0
Mr. Stephen J. Squeri , 50
Chief Information Officer, Group Pres of Global Services and Member of Operating Committee $ 2.93M $ 0
Mr. Edward P. Gilligan , 50
Vice Chairman and Member of Operating Committee $ 5.45M $ 0


Top executive Pay structure.

It was one of the 30 original Dow companies, started in 1850, the CFR started in 1922 by the way.

Further no one listed on the Board of Directors is actually a CFR Fellow, which are the real Powers that Be behind the CFR.

These are the current Board Members of American Express


Daniel F. Akerson
Managing Director, The Carlyle Group
Charlene Barshefsky
Senior International Partner, WilmerHale
Ursula M. Burns
President, Xerox Corporation
Kenneth I. Chenault
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, American Express Company
Peter Chernin
Founder, Chernin Entertainment
Jan Leschly
Founder and Partner, Care Capital LLC
Richard C. Levin
President, Yale University
Richard A. McGinn
General Partner, RRE Ventures
Edward D. Miller
Former President and Chief Executive Officer, AXA Financial, Inc.
Steven S Reinemund
Retired Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, PepsiCo, Inc.
Robert D. Walter
Founder and Executive Director, Cardinal Health, Inc.
Ronald A. Williams
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Aetna, Inc.


These are the current Fellows of CFR


James M. Lindsay, Senior Vice President, Director of Studies, and Maurice R. Greenberg Chair 202.509.8405 jlindsay@cfr.org
Janine Hill, Deputy Director of Studies Administration 212.434.9753 jhill@cfr.org Africa John Campbell, Ralph Bunche Senior Fellow for Africa Policy Studies 212.434.9625 jcampbell@cfr.org Princeton N. Lyman, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Africa Policy Studies 202.509.8524 ittels@cfr.org
Asia Kim Barker, Edward R. Murrow Press Fellow 212.434.9853 kbarker@cfr.org Jerome A. Cohen, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Asia Studies
212.434.9635 jcohen@cfr.org Elizabeth C. Economy, C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and Director of Asia Studies 212.434.9641 eeconomy@cfr.org
Evan A. Feigenbaum, Senior Fellow for East, Central and South Asia
202.509.8528 efeigenbaum@cfr.org Joshua Kurlantzick, Fellow for Southeast Asia 202.509.8473 jkurlantzick@cfr.org Daniel Markey, Senior Fellow for India, Pakistan, and South Asia 202.509.8441 dmarkey@cfr.org
Adam Segal, Maurice R. Greenberg Senior Fellow for China Studies
212.434.9745 asegal@cfr.org Sheila A. Smith, Senior Fellow for Japan Studies 202.509.8449 ssmith@cfr.org Scott A. Snyder, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Korea Studies 202.588.9420 ssnyder@cfr.org
Center for Preventive Action Paul B. Stares, General John W. Vessey Senior Fellow for Conflict Prevention and Director of the Center for Preventive Action 202.509.8463 pstares@cfr.org Micah Zenko, Fellow for Conflict Prevention 212.434.9845 mzenko@cfr.org Energy Security and Climate Change Michael Levi, David M. Rubenstein Senior Fellow for Energy and the Environment and Director of the Program on Energy Security and Climate Change 212.434.9495 mlevi@cfr.org Europe
James M. Goldgeier, Whitney H. Shepardson Senior Fellow for Transatlantic Relations 202.509.8424 jimg@gwu.edu Charles A. Kupchan , Senior Fellow for Europe Studies 202.509.8402 ckupchan@cfr.org
Jeffrey Mankoff, Adjunct Fellow for Russia Studies 203.432.6248 jmankoff@cfr.org Stephen R. Sestanovich , George F. Kennan Senior Fellow for Russian and Eurasian Studies 202.509.8454 sestanovich@cfr.org
Global Health Laurie Garrett, Senior Fellow for Global Health 212.434.9749 dbarker@cfr.org Peter Navario, Fellow for Global Health 212.434.9549 pnavario@cfr.org International Institutions and Global Governance
Stewart Patrick, Senior Fellow and Director of the Program on International Institutions and Global Governance 202.509.8482 spatrick@cfr.org Scott G. Borgerson, Visiting Fellow for Ocean Governance
212.434.9618 sborgerson@cfr.org Latin America Julia E. Sweig , Nelson and David Rockefeller Senior Fellow for Latin America Studies and Director of Latin America Studies 202.509.8410 jsweig@cfr.org
Shannon K. O'Neil, Douglas Dillon Fellow for Latin America Studies
212.434.9772 soneil@cfr.org Maurice R. Greenberg Center for Geoeconomic Studies Sebastian Mallaby, Director of the Maurice R. Greenberg Center for Geoeconomic Studies and Paul A. Volcker Senior Fellow for International Economics 202.509.8446 smallaby@cfr.org
Edward Alden , Bernard L. Schwartz Senior Fellow 202.509.8474 ealden@cfr.org Caroline Atkinson, Adjunct Senior Fellow for International Economics 202.509.8438 catkinson@cfr.org Jagdish N. Bhagwati, Senior Fellow for International Economics 212.434.9667 jbhagwati@cfr.org
David Braunschvig, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Business and Foreign Policy
212.292.4255 dbraunschvig@cfr.org James P. Dougherty, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Business and Foreign Policy 212.434.9750 jdougherty@cfr.org
Steven Dunaway, Adjunct Senior Fellow for International Economics
sdunaway@cfr.org Roger M. Kubarych, Henry Kaufman Adjunct Senior Fellow for International Economics and Finance 212.434.9596 rkubarych@cfr.org Marc Levinson Senior Fellow for International Business
212.434.9639 mlevinson@cfr.org Amity Shlaes, Senior Fellow for Economic History 212.434.9500 ashlaes@cfr.org
Benn Steil, Senior Fellow and Director of International Economics
212.434.9622 mholden@cfr.org Matthew J. Slaughter, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Business and Globalization 603.646.2939 matthew.j.slaughter@tuck.dartmouth.edu Middle East Elliott Abrams, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies 202.509.8472 estein@cfr.org
Mohamad Bazzi, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies
212.998.3613 mbazzi@cfr.org Steven A. Cook, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies 202.509.8620 scook@cfr.org Noah R. Feldman, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies noah_feldman@harvard.edu
Thomas W. Lippman, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies
202.363.6796 tlippman@cfr.org Daniel S. Senor, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies 212.933.9973 dsenor@cfr.org
Steven Simon, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies
202.509.8437 ssimon@cfr.org Ray Takeyh, Adjunct Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies 202.509.8432 rtakeyh@cfr.org Jacob Walles, Cyrus Vance Fellow in Diplomatic Studies jwalles@cfr.org
National Security and Defense John B. Bellinger III, Adjunct Senior Fellow for International and National Security Law 202.942.6599 John.Bellinger@aporter.com Richard K. Betts, Adjunct Senior Fellow for National Security Studies 212.854.7325 rkb4@columbia.edu
Stephen Biddle, Senior Fellow for Defense Policy 202.509.8476 sbiddle@cfr.org Max Boot, Jeane J. Kirkpatrick Senior Fellow for National Security Studies 212.434.9619 mboot@cfr.org
Stephen E. Flynn, Ira A. Lipman Senior Fellow for Counterterrorism and National Security Studies 212.434.9676 gcopple@cfr.org Paul Lettow, Adjunct Senior Fellow 212.434.8443 plettow@cfr.org
Nicole Lewis, National Intelligence Fellow 212.434.9671 nlewis@cfr.org
Science and Technology Charles D. Ferguson, Philip D. Reed Senior Fellow for Science and Technology 202.509.8460


Founded by Henry Wells and William Fargo never a single owned company no one on CFR.

Sorry Charlie


[edit on 19/1/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


The fact you continue to focus on the example shows you’re stuck in a loop.


I am going to answer this last question, and then if you insist on staying off topic, I will simply not respond to your further question.


Again, everything I’ve asked was in response to a previous statement made by you. All questions, comments and answers are derived from your statements and pertain to them. If they are off topic, your original statements were off topic.


Is American Express Travel Services "A' "Single" "Single Location" "Travel Agency" "Owned and Operated" "Operated" "Operated" "Operated" by a Power that Be...

Or is it a huge multinational credit card services, and travel company, that has it's own tour packages, travelers checks, and thousands of locations?

Is it owned by "A" single entity or is it a "PUBLIC" "COMPANY" "TRADED" "ON" "WALL STREET".

In fact what I said was correct there is no power that be that owns "A" Travel Agency, that I know of. As in a Travel Agency that only exists for the sole and primary purpose to book his travel through a single location.


Word-jugglery.


That's there New York Stock Exchange Call Sign.


I already knew this.


That's there company profile.


And that basically says they also operate as a travel agency, thanks.


Top executive Pay structure.

It was one of the 30 original Dow companies, started in 1850, the CFR started in 1922 by the way.

Further no one listed on the Board of Directors is actually a CFR Fellow, which are the real Powers that Be behind the CFR.


Let us take the first member of key personel, Mr. Kenneth I. Chenault who is also the Chief Exec. Officer, Member of Operating Committee, Chairman of American Express Travel Related Services Company Inc and Chief Exec. Officer of American Express Travel Related Services Company Inc.

investing.businessweek.com...:US

Heres a bone for you and taken from the link:

“He serves on the Dean's Advisory Board of Harvard Law School and is a Member of the Council on Foreign Relations.”

Bold emphasis mine.

Now let us take another person, Charlene Barshefsky a member of the board, and see what pops up shall we?

www.intel.com...

She is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Bold emphasis mine. If you want to learn more about her go to the CFR web site as she is listed as one of their board of directors:

www.cfr.org...


Founded by Henry Wells and William Fargo never a single owned company no one on CFR.

Sorry Charlie


Please refer to the links provided in this thread. Now go to bed as it’s obvious you have no clue as to what it is you’re talking about.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by EMPIRE]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


Old Internet Trick posting links without the excerpts that prove the links have anything in them to prove your contentions. Get the people to exit the thread to look for the Red Herring you can't copy and paste.

Yes I agree you are stuck in a rut.

The fact of the matter remains American Express is not a privately held company owned by a Power that Be.

And by your own definition of wealth the people on the Board of Directors of American Express don't even qualify as Powers that Be.

Maybe one day when you have some real theory or evidence on what's really taking place in the world you will be able to figure out how to write it all down and present it?

Perhaps what you don't understand is it's very hard to prove a point when in fact you don't even have a point to prove in the first place.




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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Ok...I'm going to take an angle on this topic...trying to link Seborga to the Knights of Templar...


The Knights Templar Chronology:
www.georgesmart.com...

Chapter 3: Beginnings

Orthodox historians place the founding of the Templars somewhere between 1114 and 1118, when the nine left for Jerusalem. This assumes such founding was a formal moment, much like the dedication of a new bridge or tunnel. Of more interest than pinpointing that exact moment, however, is decoding the chain of events leading to it.

Their publicly stated purpose was the protection of pilgrims traveling to the Holy Land. However, there is little evidence such a common task was their real function. Nine men just cannot protect many pilgrims along hundreds of miles of land. And simple monks, bound to vows of poverty, did not receive the kind of rich support, housing, and recognition given by Jerusalem King Bauduoin II – or later by the Pope.

If the Templars were not protecting pilgrims, what were they up to for nine years? The prevailing explanation is archeological, that they were there to dig under Solomon’s Temple, to retrieve treasure and artifacts revealed by Arabic scrolls translated by monks in Toledo or France.

After 1126, the Templars grow dramatically in number and create multiple enterprises. With unprecedented protection and special dispensation from the Pope, they become the world’s foremost bankers, inventing the check and the branch banking system. They are the medieval world's most powerful ambassadors and statesmen, developing access, influence, and control matched only by the Pope. They are the world's prime movers in real estate, eventually controlling over 5000 properties in Scotland, Ireland, Britain, France, Spain, the German states, Hungary, and virtually every country on the Mediterranean. They finance much of the Catholic building program for 300 new places or worship including cathedrals, monasteries, and other structures. Power, prestige, access, money, fame -- everyone wanted to be a Templar -- they are the rock stars of their time.

1113

Pope Paschal II approves the expansion of the Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalemxe "Jerusalem" (a.k.a. Hospitallers) from a small Amalfi hospital group formed in 1070. The Order’s first Grand Master is Peter Gérard.

According to The Knights Templar, Templars install Hugues de Payns as Grand Master on February 15 in Champagne.

According to the Principality of Seborga’s official website, Bernard de Fontaine establishes a monastery in Castrum Sepulchri (now called Seborga) in northern Italy to protect a “great secret.” This monastery, under the direction of Prince Abbot Edouard, includes two monks who will be future Templars, Gondemare and Rossal.

In March, the Treaty of Gisors gives Brittainy to English King Henry I.

Sultan Kilij Arslän dies and Muhammad Tapar becomes ruler of the Seljuk Turks and begins a successful campaign against Assassin towns. In the Turks, Templars and Assassins now share a common enemy.

1114

On January 7, Holy Roman Emperor Henry V marries Matilda, the daughter of English King Henry I.

Count Hugues de Champagne receives a letter from Bishop Ivo of Chartres (dies December 12, 1115) saying "We have heard that … before leaving for Jerusalem you made a vow to join 'la Milice du Christ,' that you wish to enroll in this evangelical soldiery." La Milice du Christ (a.k.a. Soldiers of Christ) is another name by which the Templars are known and one Bernard de Fontaine often uses to refers to them. This letter establishes that the Templars were organized earlier at least by 1115.

Count Hugues de Champagne and Hugues de Payns leave for their second trip to Jerusalem.

According to The Templars: Knights of God, Michael the Syrian, Patriarch of the Syriac Church at Antioch and chronicler of the Crusades, will later write that Hugues de Payns was in Jerusalem for three years before founding the Templars.

1115

Count Hugues de Champagne returns from Jerusalem and provides land and funding for a new Cistercian Abbey at Clairvaux, 35 miles east of Troyes. Hugues de Payns stays behind in Jerusalem.

On July 7, Peter the Hermit dies.

Abbot of Citeaux Etienne Harding appoints the young Bernard de Fontaine as Abbot of Clairvaux.

The Archbishop of Cologne imprisons Tanchelm of Flanders who escapes and is later killed for preaching against the corruption of priests and encouraging people not to tithe to the Catholic Church.

King Bauduoin I builds one of the great Crusader castles, the Krak de Montreal, in the Negev desert.

1117

In February, Bernard de Clairvaux goes to Castrum Sepulchri (Seborga) to release André de Gondemare and Rossal from their monastic vows, according Seborga’s official website.

In March, King of Jerusalem Baudouin I negotiates a constitution for the Knights Templar with Hugues de Payns and Godfroi de Saint-Omer.

1118

On January 21, Pope Paschal II dies and Gelasius II takes over three days later. Holy Roman Emperor Henry V appoints his own pope, an act for which Gelasius II excommunicates him.

On April 2, King Baudouin I dies of disease at El-Arish while attempting to take Egypt.

On April 14, Baudouin du Bourg of Edessa becomes Baudouin II, King of Jerusalem, reigning until 1131.

Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus dies.

In September, according to Seborga’s official website, Cistercian Abbot Prince Edouard of Seborga consecrates the nine original Templars in the presence of Bernard of Clairvaux and Count Hugues de Champagne. This means that de Payns must have traveled back to Seborga from Jerusalem to be with the other eight.

In November, except for Count Hugues de Champagne, all nine Templars leave for Jerusalem, arriving May 14, 1119. The principality of Seborga, located on the border of France and Italy, becomes the first and unique sovereign Cistercian state in history.

According to Paul Naudon concerning Lawrie’s History of Freemasonry, “…Hugh de Payens was initiated by Theocletes, Grand-Pontiff of the Nazarenes, or "St. John Christians," who had inherited the esoteric instructions of Jesus as found in the original Gospel of Matthew. The first Templars regarded Jesus as a Brother, not a God, and strictly adhered to the secret teachings of their Chiefs in the East.”

Peter Gérard, Grand Master of the Hospitallers, dies and his successor Raymond de Puy increases their military role aided by Jerusalem King Baudouin II.

Medieval historian Guillaume de Tyre puts the beginning of the Templars during this year.

Templars leave Europe for Jerusalem.

1119

Pope Gelasius II dies on January 29, succeeded by Pope Callistus II (1050-1124).

At Easter, Muslims attack 700 Catholic pilgrims on the road to the Jordan River.

On May 14, Templars arrive in Jerusalem. King Baudouin II gives the Templars the al-Aqsa mosque and the adjacent area called Solomon's Stables on the Temple Mount for a headquarters.

Pope Callistus II calls the Council of Reims which turns public opinion away from Holy Roman Emperor Henry V. Count Hugues de Champagne attends and aligns with the Pope.

Pope Callistus II negotiates a peace between the Kings of France and England at Gisors, which becomes a Norman village.

On June 28, Ilgazi, the Muslim Emir of Mardin (dies 1122), slaughters 3700 Catholic troops at the Battle of the Field of Blood (a.k.a. Battle of Ager Sanguinis, Battle of Sarmada) including Roger of Salerno. Only 20 crusaders survive.

The Council of Toulouse condemns the Manicheans for heresy.

On Christmas Day at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, Templars take their monastic vows from Warmund of Picquigny, the Patriarch of Jerusalem. This moment is the orthodox founding date of the Order.

1120

In January, the Patriarch of Jerusalem (a distant cousin of Bernard of Clairvaux) at the Council of Nablus officially recognizes the Knights Templar Order and gives them their first insignia, a red cross. King Baudouin II of Jerusalem gives them exclusive use of the al-Aqsa mosque located at the former Temple of Solomon.

In March, Templars set up a preceptory at La Fontenotte in Dijon.

Count Hugues de Champagne convenes a meeting in Troyes, agenda unknown.

Count Fulk V of Anjou takes an oath to join the Templars.

King Alexander I of Scotland establishes the country’s first Augustinian monastery at Scone.

On November 25, the English Treasury and 140 knights including the sole son of King Henry I drown off of France, opening up a power vacuum leading to an English civil war.

1121

Pope Callistus II captures his rival, Pope Gregory VIII, and returns to Rome in June.

According to The Second Messiah, Count Fulk V of Anjou travels to Jerusalem to visit the Templar excavations. He returns to Europe and grants the Templars a large endowment.

The Council of Soissons condemns Peter Abelard (1079-1142) who believes in the use of reason rather than faith to prove the Bible. Abelard’s process of questioning leads the seeker to truth rather than asking him to accept it without question. “Nothing is to be believed until it is understood.” -- Peter Abelard.

Death of Lambert de Saint Omer, an encyclopedist whose best-known work is a map called the Heavenly Jerusalem. He may have translated documents for Templar Geoffrey de Saint Omer from excavations under Solomon’s Stables.

1122

Settling years of conflict, Pope Callistus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V sign the Concordat of Worms dividing power between the Pope and the Emperor.

Pope Callistus II officially recognizes the Sacred and Military Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem.
Much more at Link...

[edit on 1/19/2010 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Old Internet Trick posting links without the excerpts that prove the links have anything in them to prove your contentions. Get the people to exit the thread to look for the Red Herring you can't copy and paste.


Who did this? I provided links. What did you provide? Absolutely nothing. All you had to do was click on the first link and click on READ FULL BACKGROUND and the excerpt would pop up. That’s strike one. Concerning the second link, all you have to do is click on it and read the third paragraph. Strike two. For the third link, all you have to do is click on it and scroll down to her name. Strike three. YOU’RE OUT!!!


Yes I agree you are stuck in a rut.


No, You’re stuck in a rut.


The fact of the matter remains American Express is not a privately held company owned by a Power that Be.


First you go from saying it wasn’t a travel agency, then you said the board of directors have no CFR members now you’re saying they don’t own the company I cited as an example, yet the evidence shows they are a travel agency and that the CEO and a person on the board ARE members of the CFR. And friend, that’s just who I decided to take from the list, but there are several more on the list.


And by your own definition of wealth the people on the Board of Directors of American Express don't even qualify as Powers that Be.


I never gave you my definition of wealth. Stop lying.



Maybe one day when you have some real theory or evidence on what's really taking place in the world you will be able to figure out how to write it all down and present it?


Maybe one day when you stop lying that will happen.


Perhaps what you don't understand is it's very hard to prove a point when in fact you don't even have a point to prove in the first place.


“Hey Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle”

Empire


[edit on 19-1-2010 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 19-1-2010 by EMPIRE]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


I'm sorry, you lost me there, what exactly you are trying to prove or disprove?



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Tim00
 


www.abovetopsecret.com...

On that page Proto made the following claims:

"Now in reality I know some of the powers that be. One of the most influential of the Powers that Be who at that time controlled the political process here in America stumbled into the travel agency I worked for and..."

From that I asked the following:

"Question, if this guy was so high up the food chain why was he using a travel agency? If you're one of TPTB you usually own the travel agency or at the very least a private plane. "

From there it goes downhill as he attempts to rely on his authority as a "travel agent" to somehow justify his stories. He does this by asking me questions such as, "Do you really understand the logistics of travelling in and out of remote places and third world countries and dictatorships? I do/did, do you really know what's on the ground in all those places, I do/did. "

From there I answered and he went totally left field and hasn't been able to recover since. He said, "In answer to your other questions, I can't think of a Power that Be that own's their own Travel Agency." and I ask him "Would you consider American Express Travel to be a travel agency? If so, are you aware that it is owned/controlled by people who also hold seats on the C.F.R?" From there he used all types of bottle-spinning, word smithing and fallacies to spin everything around and make it seem as if I'm the bad guy, but hey, read the link I posted, read the exchange between the two of us and you'll see things for what they are.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Hx3_1963
 

Thank you my friend, for some great information that can shed a lot of light on the secret societies of the world, their origins and purposes.

When Caesar was involved in his long campaign to conquer Gaul the area known today as modern day France his ambition to have that distinction of glory and the wealth of its spoils and the power and the prestige that would come along with it, led him to break time honored Roman Laws that had not been violated by a Roman Consul since Sulla whose legacy was not one of greatness and glory but infamy and ignominy for so doing.

Yet Caesar was guided by his ambition and his true ambition was to conquer the entire world for his and Rome’s glory.

Caesar’s ambition in this regard was not lacking, what was lacking was time. His Consulship like all Roman Consulships was to last for only a year and his refusal to return back to Rome with his army at the end of his year’s reign caused a great rift and trepidation within the Roman Senate and with his co-Consul Pompeii.

Wisely he sent back a steady stream of gold and jewels to both key alleys in the Senate, Pompeii who was married to his daughter and most of all to be dispersed into the teeming crowds of Roman citizens who adored him for his generosity.

Yet clearly much of patrician Rome had reason to fear that they had the makings of an uncontrollable tyrant on their hands, one with a well seasoned army that had been in the field battling under him for years of warfare that were steadfastly loyal to Caesar.

While Caesar lingered year after year in Gaul prosecuting the war he took a few additional liberties and side trips and made sojourns to England where he would have likely encountered the Druids who in fact where the originators of the Christ cult. Romans were multi-cultural and one of the things that allowed them to effectively absorb conquered peoples and domains was their ability to respect those people’s G-ds and add them to the Roman Pantheon of G-ds. He would have naturally been curious about the Druid’s religion as he eyed the British Isles as one of the next nations he wished to conquer.

He also however was the first Roman to successfully bridge the Rhine River and to explore the outer fringes of Germania.

Caesar’s inescapable conclusion after investigating the German and British frontiers must have been the world was far bigger than it would likely be possible to conquer in simply his own lifetime. Yet as a good Roman this would not stop him of dreaming and planning for how Roman could conquer the whole world, even though he had by now realized he had no idea how big the world was or how many foreign peoples it contained.

When Caesars daughter died unexpectedly his blood ties to his co-Consul Pompeii who for political reasons of the Senate would not step down until Caesar returned soured and took a turn for the worst, and when the Senate under Pompeii declared Caesar a traitor and subject to arrest the die was cast for Caesar.

The only way he could retain his reputation, posterity and legacy would be to defy the Roman Republic’s Law and start his plan to become Rome’s first dictator since the early days of the Republic when the Roman Kings were done away with in favor of Republican Democracy.

As Caesar finally concluded his conquest of Gaul and flush with it’s riches, knowing the citizens of Rome loved him for his generosity the pivotal and defining event of the Age occurred when he marched his victorious 13th Legion past the Rubicon River the imparkation point where Consuls must disband their armies as Roman Law prohibited a standing legion from entering or coming anywhere close to the city.

Yet Caesar would need the force of arms to deal with his rivals in the Senate and Pompeii that longed to arrest and imprison and disgrace him and rob him of the spoils of his conquest and the glory, and worse yet end his ambitions at conquering the entire world.

As his army crossed the Rubicon Pompeii and the Senators aligned against him fled the city in panic to raise an army of their own for their own protection as well as to stop Caesar’s drive towards dictatorship and domination.

A long and bitter Civil War would ensue with Caesar installing his trusted General Mark Anthony as Rome’s Governor while he and his 13th Legion pursued his rivals for years. Finally defeating their armies in a pivotal battle he was far outnumbered in and had little chance of winning won through his superior use of strategy and tactics he offered the olive branch to the surviving Senators allowing them to keep their titles and positions if they would but lay down their arms and stop their attempts to defeat him and return peaceably to Rome where all would be forgiven and forgotten. Many took him up on his offer though a few fled and committed suicides in the Roman Tradition of falling on their swords, to avoid the disgrace of being beaten and surrendering.

Pompeii fled to Egypt where he hoped as a Roman Consul he would find refuge only to be assassinated by the scheming courtesans of the Ptolemy ruler who feared Caesar’s wrath would fall down upon them.

Caesar ventured to Egypt none the less and his army with him determined to end the threat of Pompeii once and for all only to discover him already dead by the decree of the eunuchs who ran the child Ptolemy’s kingdom that as just a boy he knew not yet how to rule himself. The eunuchs had wisely enthroned him and imprisoned his sister Cleopatra who of age already would have made a powerful ruler as opposed to a pliable and easily manipulated one as her brother.

Feigning outrage that Pompeii a Roman Consul was murdered in cold blood, Caesar seized upon the opportunity as a pretext to murder the boy King and free Cleopatra and install her as queen and his loyal vassal. While legend claims Cleopatra seduced Caesar, it was likely Caesar that seduced her for the purpose of producing a Royal Child that would bind this genuine Monarch and ruler of one of Rome’s most important client states to him in ways that no handshake agreement or contract possibly could.

Caesar lingered for a couple of years in Egypt before returning to Rome, where once again he would have learned all about the Egyptian G-d’s their mysteries as well as the mysteries of their technology and civilization.

In time elements of the Christ sect in England, and the Egyptian G-d’s, Hebrew mysticism, the Zodiac and Sun Cults of Rome, including much of his own personal history would end up being wound into a yet to be heard of religion of Christianity and Roman Catholicism.

Caesar was no stranger to the Hebrews they had financed some of his earlier political achievements and were financing much of Anthony’s Rome he ran for Caesar while he was off away fighting the Civil War.

Finally after years of waiting Caesar was able to return to Rome in triumph its undisputed leader and hero, conqueror of Gaul and put on his Triumph for all of Rome to celebrate.

Yet all of Rome did not celebrate, the rival Senators he spared still conspired against him, growing increasingly wary of him when he proclaimed himself Dictator for a 10 year term and then expanded it to last his natural life.

This is when Brutus, Cassius, Cicero and others would begin to hatch their plot to assassinate him.

(continued below)



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

(continued from above)

So on that fateful day of the 15th of March arrived and Caesar entered the Senate an argument quickly ensued that led to an assassination attempt.

The Senators had secreted knives and met an unarmed Caesar but unlike most of the Senators Caesar was a skilled warrior and while the frightened Senators timidly and unsurely attacked and stabbed at him with an array of wild slashes and attempts Caesar a life long epileptic went into a seizure brought on by the flashing lights reflecting off of the wildly slung blades and the shock of his wounds.

Having fallen to the floor in a violent seizure and slashed with dozens of superficial and a few serious knife wounds, bloodied and writhing upon the floor the fearful Senators took him to be in his death throws and fled the Senate hoping to distance themselves as quickly as they could from their individual participations in the murder of Rome’s Dictator beloved by the citizens.

However this was just but the first of the Senators mistakes that day that would haunt humanity ever since. They had failed to account for Anthony and foolishly made no attempt on his life but merely delayed him through trickery from entering the Senate at the time of the attack. When the Senators fled out Anthony rushed in and found his badly wounded friend, mentor and benefactor alive and unconscious on the floor and with the help of a slave carried him out.

Presumed to be dead Anthony and Octavian, Caesar’s young nephew conspired together to spirit Caesar out of the city secretly and to murder a man of similar height and weight both disfiguring his face and then shrouding him in Caesars own robes and clothes for the burial.

As Anthony eulogized the fallen Caesar in a public funeral whipping the crowds into a vengeful frenzy that their beloved leader was so cowardly and viciously struck down many of the conspirators once more made plans to leave the city and flee fearing Anthony’s rising stature and power left by Caesar’s vacuum and the prospect of mob rule and vengeance against them.

While accepted history tells us Caesar was murdered and Octavian later to become Augustus was made his heir and bequeathed everything history also tells us Anthony stood in the way of that last will and testament taking effect that in time would lead to yet another civil war.

History tells us this was because of Anthony’s own ambition and his relationship with Octavian’s widowed mother, who had been married to Caesar’s brother before he had died years earlier.

Yet the reality is that the reason Anthony did not honor Caesar’s supposed last will and testament is because Caesar was not dead, and the only reason for the will left and read was to position Octavian as his eventual successor and throw Rome into a controlled chaos he would secretly rule over as he set the stage for Rome’s eventual conquest of the world, well hidden from the public’s eye and the scheming Senators who presumed him to be dead, and would certainly try to assassinate him again if they thought for one moment otherwise.

Caesar would manage this power vacuum skillfully by setting up ruling council of three competing leaders. Lepidus a loyal general able to check Anthony’s excesses and possible schemes for power, Anthony now well skilled at the logistical governance of Rome itself having done so for so long during Caesar’s absences, and his intended successor Octavian, a brilliant but still very young boy Caesar had long been grooming as his protégé.

But where would Julius Caesar be able to hide, though he was presumed dead, he was already the most famous of all Romans to ever live, his likeness appeared on coins throughout the Republic and world, statues to his glory dotted the landscape.

Enter Seborga, it had been a Roman State from the earliest days of the Republic, its small little town was hidden by a hill that protruded into the ocean, behind that hill lay another, and that hill was from the earliest days of the Republic the holiest place in all of Rome. It was considered to be Mt. Olympus where in the clouds above the G-ds were reputed to dwell. The caves that honeycombed the hills were full of paintings and drawings of the G-ds and myths and legends.

Caesar was not just the Dictator of Rome, but he also held the Title of Pontificus Maximus, Rome’s highest priest.

What better place to hide Caesar as he recovered than the holiest spot in Rome, remote and its small population mostly priests who Caesar was the head priest of, unlike the scheming Senators that desired and coveted wealth and power, the priestly class had no such ambitions to improve their lot in life through murder and betrayal.

Caesar would remain the rest of his life their in Seborga hidden away, yet firmly in control of Rome as he worked on his plan to conquest the world.

While Caesar’s assassination attempt was nearly mortal he lingered for 7 days unconscious fighting silently for his life.

On the 22 of March 7 days after the attack he opened his eyes for the first time.

3/22 was the date of Caesar’s resurrection from death, and Caesar would live on for another 13 years before dying of old age.

Caesar’s real earthly remains would be buried there and mummified and preserved by technicians from Egypt sent by Cleopatra for that purpose. A Cleopatra Caesar had never stopped corresponding with because of the child that they shared, and the role she herself would play in his plans.

Caesar’s skull and bones resurrected on 3/22 remain there to this day, and during those 13 years he wrote the plan that would make him Architect of the Universe, the Roman Universe that we all live in.

This is the unknown meaning of Skull and Bones 322, they are but one of a few groups who are tasked to carry out Caesar’s 2,000 year old plan to conquer the world and place it under a one world government controlled by Rome.

While Caesar was not seduced by Cleopatra in order to open the way for Octavian’s rule upon Caesar’s death, Cleopatra did seduce Anthony, and offered him refuge in Rome while he schemed in final desperation to defeat Octavian’s growing armies, and his war chest of borrowed Jewish Gold to finance his massive effort to win the Civil War that finally developed upon Caesar’s death.

Caesar’s real last will and testament kept with him in Seborga was his plan to conquer the world by transforming Rome from a bread and circuses dictatorship into a hidden underground society whose only visible face would be one of religion, a religion he had largely secretly written while in his self imposed exile and hiding based in part on his own life, based in part on the laws he would need to impose on the people to make the plan work, based in part on the divisions he hoped to create to use the Divide and Conquer Warfare Rome had mastered to conquer the world through simple arithmetic, a formula he had already tested on his decision to have three competing rulers share power on his behalf, knowing that in time, once he was gone, Lepidus, Anthony, and Octavian would all conspire against one another for dominance and the premier role, and to claim his dictatorial powers and legacy for their own.

Still loyal to Caesar and his desire to have Octavian rule Rome, Cleopatra lured Anthony in and then set him up, as Octavian gathered a huge fleet of naval ships to meet Anthony in the greatest sea battle ever seen, 2/3rds of Anthony’s ships were Cleopatra’s Egyptian’s Navy a Fleet and a Navy she ordered to retreat at the height of battle sealing Anthony’s fate and doom.

Octavian would go on to become the first true Emperor of Rome and make official its transformation from a Republic to an Empire ruled by Emperor’s with dictatorial powers for life.

Caesar’s plan to transform the Republic into an Empire and then into a Holy Empire all based on simple mathematics and emerging technologies would take centuries to complete as the vastness of the world gauged, known and then every obstacle methodically eliminated or reduced under Rome’s control.

As Augustus’s son carried out the false flag with the cooperation of the Pharisees who had approved of Caesars plan as a means to guarantee the conquest they had the wealth in gold to pay for but not the sheer strength of numbers to carry out they carried off to Baghdad the makings of their new traditions and religions based on a Religion that Cleopatra and her and Caesar’s Son helped them to develop.

The Habiru had not been in Jerusalem all that long, as the rulers of the Hyksos Dynasty in Egypt that the Ptolemy Dynasty followed after they Egyptian people rebelled against Hyksos/Habiru/Hapiri/Hebrew rule she was well familiar with them. Caesar’s son with her, would become the Middle Eastern embodiment of the Christ Sect Caesar had learned about in Brittan and plant its seeds there.

The Habiru/Hebrew that still have not revealed a name for their G-d straight on through today, in fact worshiped many G-ds and practiced many mystical occult like practices to those G-d’s, they refer to their G-d as our lord, but they spell G-d just like I do, G-d.

They do this for a reason, because their G-d is actually G-O-L-D, as in all the money they had loaned Rome they hoped to make back and many times more in interest.

(continued below)



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


(continued from above)

So as they developed the Hebrew Religion in Baghdad where the great Rabbis met to start formalizing it, they also developed Islam to compete with it, While Caesar’s son, developed a Christian Cult in their lands.

All this was the great secret written into Caesar’s plan resting with his earthly remains back in Seaborga. The Great Secret, that Secret Societies like Skull and Bones 322 are sworn to protect just as they are sworn to carry out Caesar’s plan to create a one world Government.

Julius Caesar = Jesus Christ
Brutus = Judas
Caesar’s 12 Lictors who carried the fasces that represented the law and the power of law and life and death = Christ’s 12 disciples who carried the gospels that represented the law that determined eternal after life in paradise or eternal damnation and torture in hell.

Depictions of the Fasces adorn the walls of the United States Senate, and have been seen as powerful symbols from Nazi Germany to England and Russia.

How important was Seborga in this scheme? Even as the vestiges of the Roman Empire crumbled and the Holy Roman Empire began, when power first shifted from Rome as Charlemagne began to reunite the dark ages vestiges of the Empire and took the seat of the Holy Roman Empire to Berlin he granted Seborga it’s independence, and allowed it to continue on as an uninterrupted antonymous Roman State. He and the Pope at that time granted it the right to reject any Religious Icon or G-d. Why?

Because he was made aware of the great secret, the Caesar was Christ, and showed Caesar’s plan.

During the Middle Ages Seborga became known as the Castrum Sepulcrhri or Castrum de Sepulchro (the Castle of the Sepulcher or around the Sepulcher) or Sepulchri Burgum

These words translated from Latin into Italian literally translate as Seborga or in French Sabourg.

While the Sepulcher is thought to be the remains of Christ, the reality is the Sepulcher is the Remains of Caesar.

After the 7 European Knights that stopped there to pray on the way to the crusades exchanged all their earthly wealth to be dubbed the Poor Knights of Christ and assigned an Abbot to the party to create 8, when they returned from the Crusades and stopped there again on the way back they were redubbed the Knights Templar.

Citing Seborgas official website: Bernard de Clairvaux and Prince Abbot Eduard of the Castle make Hugues de Payns the first Templar Grand Master at this time, and joining the occasion was Friar Gerard de Martiques of the Knights of Malta. At the time a vow of silence was made between the Knights and the Great Bishop of the Cathari to safeguard “The Great Secret”.

So here see in the 11th century that both the Knights of Malta and the Knights Templar at their highest leadership level have been told the truth the Julius Caesar is actually Jesus Christ, shown his remains, the Roman Imperial Scepter and let in on Caesar’s plan to conquer and Romanize the whole world and how.

Citing Ian Sinclair in Pinkham’s Guardians of the Holy Grail, Hugues de Payns and the Templar Knights bring back from Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem to Kilwinning Scotland five cases from Solomon’s Temple that are later moved to Roslin Castle, then to Rosslyn Chapel. Sinclair has stated that ground scans at the Chapel show the five cases as well as five tunnels linking the Castle with the Chapel.

These are the actual real religious scrolls that the Hebrew were practicing revealing their real G-ds before the Pharisees hatched their plan with Caesar to invent a new system of government and control based on a shared monotheism religious cult.

Roslin Chapel is where the Scottish Rite Masonry movement was born.

While legend and history tells us that the King of France betrayed the Templar Knights accusing them of heresy for practicing these rights, and attacked their Castle in France killing many and sending other of the Knights to Papal Trial before eventually being condemned to death to interesting facts remain and loom large.

The first is at the height of the Templar Order over 300,000 people were in it. Only one in 7 where knights, the rest were clerks and clerics and scribes, not only had the Templar Order set up the first international banking system but they also managed nobles estates that weren’t a member of the order for a fee while they were away fighting in the Crusades. So the fact that its principal Leaders were killed still left a large international form of government and banking.

These Clerks, Clerics and Scribes would become the Free Masons.

The second interesting fact is that these items were carried off to Scotland. The Scottish Kings sat on a throne that at the base of it was the Stone of Scone, the actual Stone Jacob from the Bible is alleged to have slept on when dreaming of Jacob’s ladder up to the heavens to commune with G-d. The Stone of Scone arrived in Scotland centuries before the Templar Order was in existence, and the Stone of Scone has been proven to have been quarried from the area around Israel.

How did the Stone of Scone get to Scotland then? The Hebrew in fact has worn many hats. As the tribes disbursed to carry out Rome’s plan various tribes, the ‘lost’ tribes took on different roles.

One of the things that terrorized Pagan Europe to accept Christianity are the Vikings and their looting, raping and pillaging of coastal towns in England and Europe and River Towns in England and Europe.

The Vikings were from Norway, the Rothschild family which is the house of Dan is also from Scandinavia, Dan means Denmark. History shows us that when the Vikings were not pillaging they travelled to the Middle East to sell their captives and their loot and to hang out there for months at a time, drinking and relaxing and making merry, and in peaceable ways.

Why would the presumed Nordic Vikings travel so far to sell their loot into a land that would have been so foreign in its ways to them?

They were going home for a vacation!

As the Vikings kept invading Scotland some of them settled, and settled with the Stone of Scone, because they weren’t Vikings, they were a ‘Lost Tribe of Jews”.

That is why the items removed from Solomon’s Temple by the Templar Knights went to Scotland directly instead of the Vatican or Seborga. The actual scrolls of the real Hebrew religion had no value to them because the whole Christian religion was based on a cult of Caesar, and written as a plan to take over the world using monotheism as a weapon in that fight.

It did have real value to the actual Hebrew Tribe in Scotland even though they didn’t look, like or talk like, or act like the ‘Jews’ from the tribes who were assigned to play the part to validate the Christian Religion by claiming it was based on the same G-d for a false religion they wrote as well to convince people of that.

Further proof of all this can be seen in the fact that during World War II, the actual Jews in Norway and Denmark were given time to evacuate by Nazi Armies that would wait patiently for days for them to be first transported out by their own means? Why?

Because these were the Actual real bloodline Jews that Rothschild and the Zionists wanted in Israel as opposed to the Eastern European and Russian Jews who simply converted to the religion thinking it was a real religion.

While Israel and the Zionists would welcome those of them that survived too into Israel, it was not only prepared to sacrifice them to encourage the Jews that they really wanted in Israel to flee back to Israel, but in fact wanted to whittle down the number of the Eastern European and Russian Jews who were merely converts as the Pharisees continued to play their part to not just validate the Christian Religion by claiming to have worshipped the same G-d long before any European had heard of Christ, but to all so drive Europeans to Christianity through things like Viking terrorism and the papal notion that once you converted to Christianity and gave up paganism that things like Viking attacks would be held back by G-d.

Why did the Vikings peter out and stop pirating and terrorizing? Once the Pagans had all converted there was no need to.

So there is strong Evidence to suggest that the Scottish Tribes are in fact or at least some of them are Hebrew Tribes.

(continued below)



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


(continued from above)

So all through Seborga, we can see the links through the Templars, to the Masons, to the Knights of Malta, to the Skull and Bones 322.

The only other Skull and Bones Chapter is from Bavaria that was ruled by Holy Roman Empire Princes, dating back to 900 when Charlemagne became the Holy Roman Emperor and the protector of the Pontificus Maximus of Rome and made his capitol Berlin.

It is safe to say that at their highest levels that the Masons not only know the secret Hebrew occult religions and G-ds but are a secret Roman Army and part of the Shadow Roman Government that secretly binds the empire together, and that the Knights of Malta are part of that Shadow Roman Government too. That further that the Skull and Bones 322, know the ‘Great Secret’ and are similar to the Special Forces in the U.S. Army as they carry out the most secretive tasks in making politics and technologies that will mimic Biblical prophecy.

All of them are tied to Rome all of them through Seborga, Seborga that has the highest exchange rate for it’s currency than any medium of exchange in the world.

If you follow the age old adage of follow the money, where money is worth the most is in Seborga.

Further its clear that the Pope is a figure head, while great power is invested in his office, he has always been guarded and on at least one occasion killed by his Swiss Guards. The Swiss the heart of the money and banking empire of Rome are also another lost Tribe of the Hebrew, the Pope is Guarded in this fashion to ensure he himself never betrays the ‘Great Secret” exposing the whole system, and that the Hebrew are repaid in full for the money lent to Rome to finance the conquest.

The Black Pope of the Jesuits, yet another secret Roman Army founded by Loyola functions secretly as his co-Consul.

Yet behind the scenes is a Council of Eight, and quiet out of the way, tiny, run down and old Seborga, would probably be the last place on Earth anyone would suspect that the secrets to our matrix of life, the plan to create a one world government and the ruler ship decisions that are made to guide the whole process and the whole world would actually all be emanating from. Hiding right in plain sight were we would never expect it to be is the “Great Secret” of the Architecture of our Roman Universe.

In our money, in our laws, in the architecture of our halls of power, in our sciences, in our militaries, in our art, in our commerce, even here on ATS that has it’s own ‘Forums’ Rome is all around us.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 

so you are trying to prove that Caesar was eating mana, he was riding on some magic flying chariot of light, and he wast shooting balls of lighting out of his ass?
hmm how does that make any sense to you I wonder?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


The vikings were not just from Norway, just origination. We moved east to Sweden, south to Danmark and west to Iceland. Then the Icelanders moved to Greenland and the Swedish band called the Rus moved in to the Balkans to enslaves the Slavs, and eventually mix.

Vikings sacked Europe because there were peoples encroaching on their territory and trying to convert, and supposedly even invading by small forces and destroying sacred temples and such, so much is retaliation to the Christians. If you notice through history Churches were always the FIRST building sacked in raid. They are thought to be hypocritical as they have all the wealth, while others were poor, plus looting makes rich.

Most travelling to the middle east went to arab countries to trade Christian/Slavic/African slaves, and others like fish and amber for artworks and especially silver, from the arabs. Also for glory. The Byzantians used us as royal guards and mercenaries, the Varangians.

As you said vikings brought back many artifacts, I have some pictures of Buddhas and foreign works from Sweden et cetera, they were obviously fascinated by other cultures.

The vikings stopped viking because they were converted, mostly forcibly but part because they tried to explain to them christianity was the same basic religion, commemorating the sun/zodiac. Also the cross necklace looked much like Mjolnir back then as it is a simple plus sign + that only later turned into a lower case t.

A curious tale, one day a rabbi in Oslo was bitching at me for a long conversation about tribe of Dan and forsaking jewish heritage or something, and I thought he was crazy but I guess I know part of what he is talking about.

I also wondered always why is there a city of Roskilde in Danmark and if it has a connection to the Rothschilds. Roskilde LITERALLY means 'Source of Praise'...


I also want to add, there is evidence we have been there for 80,000 years and circumstantial evidence of over 200,000 years, are you suggesting the Norsemen are a completely false culture because hebrews pretended to be northern pagans and went assaulting Christians, simply to keep them in fear?!

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Ridhya]



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


I must agree with you on that, more or less. surely few jews had their dirty in viking foreign affairs, but it's not that overwhelming as our beloved friend is stating.
Rome does not create something out of nothing, Rome just take what's already there, and puts it in a good use.
So no worries dear Vikings, nobody will take any credits from you, you've been a good service to The Rome



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by Ridhya
 


Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy piece Ridhya.

About 7,000 years ago a wave of marauding pirates known as Sea People’s began to attack coastal villages along the Mediterranean cast of Africa and the Middle East.

History carved into cuneiforms, and walls and written on papyrus identifies one of these peoples as the Habiru/Hapiri. There is some contention amongst scholars as to where they were originally from. Some believe they were from Southern Spain, some think they were from Malta, and others think they were from the Anatolia region around Turkey and Armenia.

One thing is very clear though is they all agree the Habiru/Hapiri were not Semitic peoples. As time went on the Habiru/Hapiri established a port and a community within Canaan and started spreading out from there.

Historical accounts show that they were pirates, mercenaries, slave traders, skilled artisans and masons, merchant and money lenders, and political advisors that started wandering in and out of and establishing “separate but equal”
communities within every known civilization throughout the Middle East from Babylon and Ur and the Mesopotamian Delta to Egypt, inserting themselves into the communities as separate but equal peoples.

Sound familiar to the modern day Jews?

Further they refused to name their G-ds but in Assyria, Egypt and Babylon treaties that existed between those nations stated that amongst the G-ds that each nation agreed to respect were the unnamed G-ds of the Habiru/Hapiri.

They and their G-ds were associated with strange celestial events. They were feared and respected, and many accounts exist of people’s petitioning the kings of these kingdoms regarding complaints about their business practices but to no avail.

History also shows that through their capacity as political advisors that they took over for a time in turn almost every Kingdom in the Middle East extracting that nation’s wealth and enslaving it with harsh laws until the people would rebel against their leadership and kick them out.

Every bit of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence and their methods of operation suggest that the Habiru/Happiri were what the world would later come to know as the Hebrew.

Archeologists are divided into two camps on this, Zionist scholars and Archeologists bitterly deny this, but the fact remains the same where much of the Archeological records exist these nations today are either closed societies like Syria, occupied societies like Iraq, or paid off societies like Egypt that receives billions of each year through the Camp David and Oslo accords. So there is a coordinated effort to dispel this notion and as I have stated earlier the first thing to fall in Baghdad was the museum the oldest and most extensive collection of ancient artifacts in the Middle East were kept there, and that Iraq’s archeological sites are heavily guarded.

The other group of scholars are convinced though that the Habiru/Hapiri are the Hebrew as the similarities in how they functioned, practiced, worshipped and did business are just too great to ignore.

So what we have is about 8,000 years of the Hebrew functioning as separate but equal peoples in societies that are foreign to them that started well before they were supposedly driven into Diaspora by Rome.

Because that had always been their tactic of wandering in and out of civilizations then putting a strangle hold on their trade and political process, the Habiru would not have been adverse to leaving Jerusalem were at best records show they had only settle for a few hundred years, after being driven out of Egypt and most every other place they had inserted themselves in. The chance to do it all over again with Rome’s help with a much broader swath of terrain would have likely been very appealing to them and remains very appealing to them when you look at Zionist and Jewish politics and consider that the vast majority of them don’t actually want to go and live in Israel as a homeland.

What we also have is accounts that the Habiru/Hapiri was not Semitic peoples but tall, fair skinned, light haired, light eyed people, who seldom took wives but the region but would travel north into Europe looking for wives.

We also know that they were good at pirating and violent mercenary work.

So it is highly plausible that as they went into Europe, Northern Europe on the heals of Rome to help validate the religion and set up the practice of usury and the gold based commerce system that some of them who were tall fair skinned, light haired, and light eyed, could have easily passed themselves off as being native to the region.

As adept political advisers it’s entirely possible that they selected some Nordic pagan kingdoms to take over and steer them towards pirating.

It’s also entirely possible just like in the Middle East they took over some of these kingdoms. That would not have required everyone in those kingdoms involved with the pirating/Viking efforts to be from one of the Tribes just some of them at the top controlling the political process or guiding it along.

So no, not everyone of Nordic and Scandinavian descent was from one of the Hebrew Tribes, but clearly at least one of the Tribes, perhaps the most powerful or at least the most visible, The House of Dan was!

Further I think we have to ask ourselves why a group of warriors who would literally go Berserk in battle killing their opponents would rob, rape and pillage one group of people, the Europeans and British, and then peaceably go down to the Middle East and not rob, rape, and pillage them?

If the Stone of Scone got into Scotland by way of the Vikings we then have to ask why would the Pagan Vikings have any interest in a simple chunk of Stone tied to the Hebrew religion. Certainly they weren’t trading or selling to the British Isles people but robbing and pillaging and killing them. For them to have peaceably traded it, it would have meant that Scotland had already been settled by another tribe which is also possible. A tribe dedicated to stamping out the druids and the real origins of the Christ sects.

The ultimate question we have to answer is why did the Templar Order carry off those chests directly to Scotland, and not Seborga where the Order was founded, not the Vatican where the Pope publicly gave them their powers to act as a law unto themselves, and not to their headquarters in France but to remote Scotland well before the Order was outlawed and forced underground?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Tim00
reply to post by Ridhya
 


I must agree with you on that, more or less. surely few jews had their dirty in viking foreign affairs, but it's not that overwhelming as our beloved friend is stating.
Rome does not create something out of nothing, Rome just take what's already there, and puts it in a good use.
So no worries dear Vikings, nobody will take any credits from you, you've been a good service to The Rome


Tim00, I see the thread is having quite an effect on you!

Basically this is what appears to have happened that elements of the Hebrew gained control or partial control of the political process in the Scandinavian and Nordic world and convinced them to go pirating and looting to strike terror in the hearts of other pagans and to get rich.

We know that the Vikings also made it to Greenland and possibly/probably Newfoundland in Nova Scotia Canada as well.

Was this by accident or were they given ancient charts to navigate the distance courtesy of one of the Hebrew tribes?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 
the Rothschild family which is the house of Dan is also from Scandinavia, Dan means Denmark.
_____________________________________________________________
I wish you would learn some history before you start typing your essays out? The Rothschilds are Khazarian Jews, and Khazaria was located in central asia. The Khazarians converted to judaism in 740 a.d. socioecohistory.wordpress.com...

Also, the Rothschilds "maiden" name was "Bauer", they changed it to Rothschild in order to save their skins when the jews were being eradicated.

www.iamthewitness.com...
The Rothschilds claim that they are Jewish, when in fact they are Khazars. They are from a country called Khazaria, which occupied the land locked between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea which is now predominantly occupied by Georgia. The reason the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish is that the Khazars under the instruction of the King, converted to the Jewish faith in 740 A.D., but of course that did not include converting their Asiatic Mongolian genes to the genes of the Jewish people.

1743: Mayer Amschel Bauer, an Ashkenazi Jew, is born in Frankfurt, Germany, the son of Moses Amschel Bauer, a money lender and the proprietor of a counting house.

Moses Amschel Bauer places a red sign above the entrance door to his counting house. This sign is a red hexagram (which geometrically and numerically translates into the number 666) which under Rothschild instruction will end up on the Israeli flag some two centuries later.

1760: During this decade Mayer Amschel Bauer works for a bank owned by the Oppenheimers' in Hanover, Germany. He is highly successful and becomes a junior partner. Whilst working at the bank he becomes acquainted with General von Estorff.

Following his father's death, Bauer returns to Frankfurt to take over his father's business. Bauer recognises the significance of the red hexagram and changes his name from Bauer to Rothschild, after the red hexagram or sign signifying 666 hanging over the entrance door ("Rot," is German for, "Red," "Schild," is German for, "Sign").

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I also have to agree with empire. You talk a lot of stuff, but don't prove much of it. I have followed this thread and have seen only some hit and miss conjectures that you have contribed with a few high profile names, and then spin it into an "alice in wonderland" fairy tale.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 
Makes for a great movie, when you want to believe that Islam, Judaism and Christondom are all actually fighting each other.
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I gotta laugh here first before I post.
Okay, that's better. NOw, to address your posting that christians, muslims and the jews are fighting each other? Nothing could be further from the truth. What is happening is that "radicals" are terrorizing each other, and innocent peaceful people are caught in the crossfire.

Islam is just as peaceful of a faith as is christianity and judaism is, but mortal man has corrupted it! Also, islam was not even born when christianity and judaism were, so pleez get your facts straight before ya spew next time will ya?

You're attempt at orchestrating someone to point a finger at has failed miserably too. While you have made some valid points, and trust me, they have been very few, shows me that you have had an agenda here with your postings.

I have researched the nwo for nearly 30 years, and have met all walks of people in that time of educational endeavor, and I have learned to spot those who are trying to pry apart the facts from the fiction. I know you are asking how I may know this?

Well, I have collected a lot of books over the years on the subject of nothing but the Rothschild dynasty, and my latest one is an original 1st edition called" The Rise of The House of Rothschild", by Egon Caesar Corti that was translated from german to american language. It's copywrite date is 1928, and covers the years from 1770 to 1830, and trust me, a lot of the stuff you displayed here about the Rothschilds is just plain wrong.

I can go on and on here, but I won't. Empire has hit things pretty much on the head from what I can tell though.



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by thewind
 


Wow the official smoke and mirrors disinformation version designed to hide the entire conspiracy as the true source of Rothschilds origins, bloodline and wealth, carefully crafted to make it seem like they just suddenly showed up and took the world by storm from humble roots.

In my humble opinion that's all fiction designed to deflect away from the real length and nature of the conspiracy and certain Jewish elements with in it.

It is the Dogmas of 'accepted' history that keep people from identifying the larger conspiracy and focused on side elements in ways that will never allow them to defeat the conspiracy or even to unearth it.

When you start looking at the entire history, instead of just windows of it, and see how history in its entirety really progresses not over the course of hundreds of years, but thousands of years, and what driving changing factors were involved at various points of time in various places then you get a whole other picture of what is more likely to have happened in my humble opinion.

The long and short of it is that 2,000 years ago the Hebrew Tribes had the monetary wealth to conquer the world but not the manpower or numbers to conquer it.

Rome had the manpower and numbers and continues to do so.

Clearly we see Zionists and Jews in financial positions of leverage and strength and exercising that financial leverage and strength but the root of that money and how it is most often applied favors Rome and the advancement of Romanization.

We have also seen through things like the Spanish Inquisition, the Pogroms in the far east, and the Nazi occupation of Germany that Rome is capable of dispatching and exerting pressure and control on the Jews anytime it wants to and it serves it’s purpose, through their sheer greater numbers.

Once again you are falling into a Roman trap, swallowing the dogmas put out there to scapegoat the Jews and keep your eyes off of the masters of the conspiracy based on emotional manipulation.

For instance lets look at the pivotal turning point of the Revolutionary War here in America being fought and run primarily by Masons and the battle of Valley Forge when Washington successfully mounted a surprise attack on the Hessian Encampment and resupplied his armies with their material.

The Hessians were crack disciplined mercenary troops skilled in the constant art of warfare.

They also happened to have as their Agent the Rothschilds who controlled who could hire them and use them.

How hard would it have been for Rothschild to send the Hessian commander a letter and a bonus to stand down on Christmas and urge them to celebrate and to send another secret dispatch to Washington telling him the ideal time and way to strike at them, to secretly get both gold and much needed equipment to Washington’s starving army without it even appearing like he was getting help from the very people he was supposedly fighting against in what was for all intents and purposes a staged revolution to set up a form of government that would allow America to play a pivotal role in the Roman Empire’s system and plans to conquer the world?

For decades people have been fixated on the same competing conspiracy theories, it’s the Jews, it’s the Masons, it’s the CFR, it’s the Bilderbergers, it’s the Skull and Bones, and often swallowing wholesale what conspiracies that focus on just those one elements are supposed to be.

Yet in all that time none of these theories have stopped anything from happening and none of these theories actually tie together the very real fact that they are all acting in a concerted effort and not individual efforts.

There has to be a central authority a multicultural authority that binds all their efforts together and can enforce the plans and guide them along.

The Jews on their own simply don’t have and never have had the sheer numbers to do that, which is why they partnered with Rome to take part in the action.

Going after one ellement of the conspiracy won't stop or defeat the other ellements.

In fact since the actual plan written in the Bible states the world will turn against the Jews in the end, it really is a trap that they want people to focus on. So while you are welcome to just go after the Zionists you will in fact have fallen for the bait, and the Zionists are in fact baiting the world when you look at their policies and diplomacy, they are purposefully turning the world against them, because the plan does require people turning against them.

I am not really interested in being suckered into plays that help the conspiracy along and come to pass, are you?



posted on Jan, 20 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by thewind
 


Yeah is it wrong? Do you believe that the book wasn't commissioned by the Rothschilds themselves to promote a false history of them as so many literary works are in fact commissioned by the Rothschilds including the works of Marxs and Neitsche and others?

I think where you are getting trapped is you see these religions as spiritual movements instead of political movements. Clearly they are all being used at the top as political movements and concepts to shape people's politics and perspectives for political purposes.

The fact that the people who buy into these religious dogmas consider them to be spiritual in nature doesn't make them spiritual in nature especially when its clear that Chritisans, Jews, and Muslims all have seperate agendas.

The day that you can produce a book actually written by G-d, signed by G-d, with G-d autographing them at Barnes and Noble at a book signing will be the day in my opinion where it could be proved that any of these conflicting religions which are actually divide and conquer political movements and systems of laws to govern people by man, have anything to do with the supernatural or a deity.

In the meantime I think you are chasing Red Herrings and being run in circles.

Thanks.





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