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At the very top, less than 12 men control the world. A council of 7

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posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 09:26 AM
reply to post by infinite

These are some ATS Threads on the mystery satellite.

India did appear to have a very advanced pre-flood civilization and some still believe that to have been Lemuria also considered a lost continent like Atlantis.

Science using the theory of plate tectonics has pretty much convinced most people Lemuria did not exist but only as a lost continent that sunk into the sea. Lemuria itself could have been where India is today.

Some people believe that the West Coast of Atlantis in the East Coast of America and that Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City, and Boston were all sites of ancient Atlantis west coast cities.

Interestingly enough they are drawn out in a straight line as the crow flies if you connect the dots at the city centers on a map.

I am more inclined to believe that the Lemurians would have ended up in South America while the Atlantians ended up in Asia Minor.

This would explain Columbus’s confusion about the Indians and thinking he had reached India.

A lot of conjecture of course, and more questions than answers, but it is titillating to think that perhaps someone out there does have the answers after they have been passed down in secret from one generation to the next for thousands upon thousands of years.

It’s even more enticing to think that maybe the answers exist in the form of a satellite that’s been circling the planet for no one knows how long.

Is it possible that Atlantis and Lemuria both existed and they were rivals before the flood and continue on as rivals today?

To me it’s a very interesting question.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 09:31 AM
All of this makes me almost ashamed to be human. Are we all that predictable or is there an actual force driving the agenda? I mean the one where all the major faiths annihilate eachother because of God's piece of real estate here on earth.

It's happening before our very eyes. The faithful are seething and are willing to kill or be killed on behalf of their benevolent creator. What the hell kind of logic is in that? Yet, there they go. Yes, their creator needs them to defend Him. We almost deserve it.

I always found it odd that the shuttle that was destroyed in the atmosphere contained an Israeli scientist. I never heard that there was an artifact that he brought with him though. I too have never heard of the satellite that Proto mentioned. Is there more information on this my friend?

Edit to add, I didn't see Proto's post before I posted this so thank you for the information!

[edit on 17-3-2010 by jackflap]

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 09:42 AM
reply to post by jackflap

Wow now here is an interesting coincidence not only was the Israeli Astronaut killed on that fateful Columbia mission but his son has died an untimely death too!

JERUSALEM - The son of an Israeli astronaut who died in the space shuttle Columbia disaster six years ago was killed Sunday when his F-16 warplane crashed on a routine training flight, the Israeli military said.

The military identified the dead pilot as Lt. Asaf Ramon, son of Ilan Ramon, Israel's first and only astronaut. Ilan Ramon was one of the seven crew members killed when the Columbia exploded as it re-entered the atmosphere after a mission in space.

The plot thickens!

It seems the ancient artifact he was reputed and alleged to carry into space might be covered up too as wikipedia says this...

Ramon was born in Ramat Gan, Israel, and grew up in Beersheba. His mother and grandmother were survivors of the Auschwitz concentration camp [1]. The name Ilan means "tree" in Hebrew.[2]

Although considered a secular Jew, Ramon reportedly sought to follow Jewish observances while in orbit. In an interview he said, "I feel I am representing all Jews and all Israelis." He was the first spaceflight participant to request kosher food. He reportedly sought advice from a Chabad Lubavitch rabbi, Zvi Konikov, about how to observe the Jewish Sabbath in space, as the period between sunrises in orbit is approximately 90 minutes. This was referenced by the words "Jerusalem we have a problem" in Rabbi Konikov's speech at the Kennedy Space Center Memorial for Columbia on February 7, 2003.[3]

Aboard STS-107, Ramon carried a pencil sketch, "Moon Landscape", drawn by 14-year-old Petr Ginz, who died in Auschwitz. Ramon also took with him a microfiche copy of the Torah (from the Holocaust) given to him by Israeli president Moshe Katsav. Ramon asked the 1939 Club, a Holocaust survivor organization in Los Angeles, for a symbol of the Holocaust to take into outer space with him. A barbed wire Mezuzah by the San Francisco artist Aimee Golant was selected. Ramon also took with him a dollar of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson.[4] Ramon and the rest of the Columbia crew died over East Texas in the Southern United States during entry into Earth's atmosphere, 16 minutes prior to scheduled landing. [5]



Seems he took a whole lot of things up into space with him, but importantly he was on the Shuttle Flight as the Payload Specialist.

What Payload was he so specialized in?

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 11:33 AM
Here is something interesting to note, regarding the Rome and Troy connection:

188 B.C.E. the Roman Senate officially recognised Troy as Rome's mother city.

Interesting, eh? The Roman Senate thought they (Rome) was the creation and successor of Troy.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by infinite]

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 11:43 AM

Originally posted by infinite
Here is something interesting to note, regarding the Rome and Troy connection:

188 B.C.E. the Roman Senate officially recognised Troy as Rome's mother city.

Interesting, eh? The Roman Senate thought they (Rome) was the creation and successor of Troy.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by infinite]

It's very interesting indeed and even more so because the conventional school of thought has long been Rome is the new Babylon but it really looks like most of the evidence points to Rome being the new Troy.

It's reassuring to know that the Roman Senate wasted as much time passing silly initiatives as ours does!

When you consider that legend has it Troy's wall's were virtually impregnable which is why even after a ten year seige they had to resort to the trickery of the Trojan Horse we in fact might be seeing where Rome got its recipe for concrete that is still holding up today 2,500 years later in some cases.

That would pose the question of how much Roman technology came from Troy.

That then poses the question if Atlantis or Lemuria founded Troy post flood in a world where natural resources and people to fashion them into advanced technologies were all wiped out, how many post flood inventions might have just waited on the books for resources and the capabilities to make them again.

A good modern day example comes from General Motors. The 1993 Camaro and Firebird with its revolutionary composite plastic sculpted body pannels was actually designed by John Delorean when he was head of the Pontiac Division of GM in 1963.

The technology though did not exist to build the vehicle which he named the Banshee.

Yet 30 years later when the technology did exist to make it, make it they did exactly as he drew it out 30 years before.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 01:17 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

According to Virgil (great Roman poet) Troy founded and established Rome. The Trojan Prince, Aeneas, is meant to be the father of Rome-it was he (allegedly) who founded the city.

Building on your earlier post, after the flood, it was suggested the a descendent of a son of Noah was the first ruler of [what is now] Britain. 200 years after the flood. However, Brutus of Troy was exiled from Troy and journeyed to Britain. The name "Britain" is supposedly named after Brutus*.

Brutus is the grandson or great grandson of Aeneas.

So all roads lead to Troy, not Rome

* see 12th century chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth in his Historia Regum Britanniae.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 01:47 PM
reply to post by infinite

It would appear that they do lead to Troy, while Aeneas himself was reputed to be mothered by the Goddess Aphrodite and so beloved by all the Gods that none of the Greek heroes including Achilles was able to kill him.

Greek, Trojan as well as Babylonian legends are full of mortals and semi-mortals allegedly sired by a God who coupled with a human.

What if though these Gods were simply the remnants of a technologically advanced Atlantis and or Lemuria who simply had the benefit of advanced technology and medicine they no longer had any easy means to duplicate or replenish in a post-flood world?

If legends are true these mythical civilizations had allegedly overcome all disease and enjoyed a usually long life span. So in theory they might have been able to live a natural life that spanned generations of post-flood humans who perceived them as being immortal because of their longevity and perceived them as being deities because of their ability to use technologies they had never seen, could comprehend or understand?

It’s entirely possible that only a fraction of the members of these civilizations survived the flood and that part of their initial effort in reestablishing life was prodigious breeding with other humans who survived the flood by random chance much like someone washed out to sea by a hurricane. There homes and TV’s and electronics are gone but they survive and revert back to a simpler life if marooned someplace where none of these things exist.

So it could have been isolated pockets of post flood humans began breeding in primitive tribal settings and the survivors who still had some of the technology and medicine bred with them too to further bolster the numbers.

By the second or third generation leading a relatively short lifespan because of the harsh primitive conditions its likely they would have had little recollection or knowledge of pre-flood life with each passing generation.

Meanwhile a handful of survivors probably no more than a few dozen lived on for hundreds of years continuing to utilize the technology and medicine they had stockpiled and secured with them before the flood.

If one of us were to transport back in time 3,000 years with just a flashlight, a disposable lighter, a handgun and a few other every day common items we would appear to be Gods too, to such people.

We would have every reason to want the people to think that too since there sheer numbers alone would be a greater threat than the technology we could carry with us would be in stopping, killing or controlling them all.

So it would be natural to want to dominate and subjugate such people simply out of self preservation to instill in them fear and to teach them they had nothing to fear if they but respected and worshipped us.
I think the big question remains is why the Trojan aspect of Rome and the New Rome concepts are almost entirely overlooked even though they have a strong basis in history?

Is it a form of misdirection is it a form of misinformation?

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 02:07 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Check out these Biblical passages. I'm sure you've heard of the nephilim. Could one or more of these creatures have been the survivors you speak of? I am using this passage for consideration as the flood and all of the things you are speaking of are referenced in the Bible. The tower of Babel also is something to be considered. Man was one at that time and anything they imagined to do they could accomplish.

Genesis 6:4-5 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Not long after these passages, the flood is announced.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 02:20 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Add this theory to the debate and we'll be entering a whole new area of topic:

Atlantis was, according to Plato, located beyond the "Pillars of Hercules" (Strait of Gibraltar to us modern folk) and no mortal dared to venture into to the unknown. Recall the Ancient Indian text that describe, in modern terms, a thermonuclear war-that involved the pre-advanced civilizations.

Would that explain why the survivors stayed around the Mediterranean Sea and why countless generations were warned of many dangers located past the Pillars? If a super weapon was used, then survivors could not risk the rebirth of civilization being bring deadly side effects into the fragile population.


One of my beliefs why Troy was the major first settlement after the flood was the architecture [its style] that grew in Troy, Rome and even the ancient city of Carthage.

For those who are unfamiliar with Carthage, google it and find an image. Very Altantisesque, with a similar inner circle naval port located in the centre of the city. Coincidence? We cannot discount knowledge and some technology surviving for a period of time after the flood.

Spanish conquistadors were surprised to find similar Roman style architecture within the Inca civilization.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 02:33 PM
reply to post by infinite

I see what you mean. I grabbed one image and figured I would place it here.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 02:34 PM
what is scary is it would only take 1 woman to rule the world

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 02:45 PM
reply to post by jackflap

The Bible is a difficult source to work with JackFlap because so much of it meant to be metaphorical and subject to interpretation not to mention the fact that its been rewritten literally hundreds of times throughout the ages while other parts of it are literally lost in translation from one language to the next.

If you ever have a chance to visit the Getty Museum in Malibu California they have the world’s largest collection of luminated Bibles. Each one was handwritten back before the printing press was invented and beautifully illustrated with colorful hand painted pictures on catgut that was stretched so thin as to be transparent so that the pictures mimicked stained glass windows.

Pick a passage from your own Bible and then look it up in one of theirs and you will start noticing discrepancies right away.

One thing is for certain that the Bible which promotes monotheism features a G-d Yahweh that is notably jealous of other Gods who tells his worshippers to put no other God before him.

Well if there is really but one God then that statement alone displays Yahweh believed there were others on par with him in the way of power and prestige.

Otherwise why would Yahweh have made such a commandment to worship no other God or put any other God before him if he was in fact the only being with God like powers?

What that means then is how can we when Yahweh claims himself to be vengeful, jealous and vain then believe he didn’t have some bias and motivation to slander and distort other beings similar to himself with similar powers to elevate himself above the others by first putting them down?

When you take the ‘that’s Blasphemy God will strike me dead’ mindset away and ask some obvious critical and intellectual questions like that you then have to almost entirely dismiss the Bible as an unbiased source.

Which also means if Yahweh was in a popularity contest with other similar beings and he was willing to distort or malign them to make him self appear better, how much then has the legend of Yahweh’s own powers also been embellished to lift him and his edicts and teachings up above all the others?

Whether it’s Yahweh or Thor, Horus or Baal, Bacchus or Apollo, Odin or Lucifer, Loki or Venus they all share one thing in common today and that is that no living human being as seen them in the flesh or held a two way conversation with any of them in a way that it could be admissible in a court of law and established as fact.

So what we might actually be seeing in Yahweh is another flood survivor who armed with technology and medicine he saved from before the flood, had individual ideas of his own of how the post-flood world should be as apparently all the others did.

Each one of those survivors who had maintained remnants of their technology and medicine could have wanted to assert dominance over the others, to either break off and create their own post flood fiefdoms, felt they had better ideas how to revitalize the world or just disagreements based on petty jealousies and rivalries amongst each other that led to the survivors warring at times with one another, and at others making entreaties to the fearful more primitive population at large to follow and obey them as opposed to one of the other survivors.

These people may have had the ability to fly using compact flying machines and could have travelled long distances from pocket of people to pocket of people.

Chances are each one of them was using these primitive pockets to mine for fuels, materials and other natural resources to keep their individual machines and medicines going as best they could.

For instance anabolic powdered gold and silver is still ingested today by the wealthy and super health conscious as a powerful antibiotic that is reputed to wipe out every form of disease or parasite in the body.

Is this why the people were asked to mine for gold? Were other substances being turned into fuels? These people might have had the ability to control weather in limited areas, rearrange molecules and atoms scientifically and many other things we are on the verge of being able to do today or are in fact doing today.

Chances are good that Yahweh if he existed just like all the other Gods if they existed were a dying breed of pre-flood people who simply lived a very long time after the flood enjoying their health and technology while it lasted and that is why whether its Yahweh or Poseidon we never hear from them today.

In theory a God like Yahweh might have been one of the youngest at the time of the flood and managed to outlast most if not all of the others with his lifespan either naturally or through infighting between the pre-flood survivors who were thought to be Gods.

The Bible does have a lot of esoteric wisdom and metaphorical treasures but historically it’s known to have been written by Rome through an ecclesiastical conclave of people who worshipped many Gods and from many different regions of the world.

Its vagueness which has spawned literally dozens and dozens of competing Christian sects makes it ideal as an instrument of human power through human interpretation.
It does though clearly display there were other Gods that Yahweh was jealous of and vengeful towards.

So it suggests the presence of some great elements that are no longer present today and many would argue Yahweh himself is no longer present today either.

Not trying to orphan you hear JackFlap but the truth is there in fact may be no one individual all powerful, all seeing omnipotent force out there in the universe.

We might in fact be as alone as we appear to be on this rock!

[edit on 17/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 03:01 PM
reply to post by infinite

Add this theory to the debate and we'll be entering a whole new area of topic:

Atlantis was, according to Plato, located beyond the "Pillars of Hercules" (Strait of Gibraltar to us modern folk) and no mortal dared to venture into to the unknown. Recall the Ancient Indian text that describe, in modern terms, a thermonuclear war-that involved the pre-advanced civilizations.

That is all highly plausible and it could very well explain why even though there is evidence of Atlantic crossings prior to Columbus that there were no real attempts to colonize or open trade.

Were the American continent and other places in effect quarantined for thousands of years for harmful antigens or radioactivity to dissipate and then more or less reclaimed on schedule?

Aeneas as legend tells did go from Troy to Carthage where a queen of Carthage fell in love with him and tried to entice him to stay until the Gods propelled him on to fulfill his duty of founding Rome as they wished.

She actually burnt all his gifts to him on a funeral pyre after he fled and stepped onto it herself taking her own life and cursing him for abandoning her. This more than any other thing is alleged to have caused the enmity between Carthage and Rome that would have them both vying for control of the Mediterranean world over a series of their own epic wars.

Another thing of interest is even late into the Republic and on into the Empire the noblest Romans often spoke and preferred to speak and write in Greek. This was considered a more descriptive language than Latin and more cultured and a sign of good breeding and intellect in the Roman world. Greek was also the shared tongue with Troy so was the speaking of Greek in part amongst the well bred meant to display their true Trojan bloodlines?

Odd too that most of the Bible was written in Greek originally much of based on disciples letters to one another written in Greek and many of them being written by disciples while in Greece.

Yet once again that in itself is a bit of ruse and misdirection as they might have very well only been speaking and writing in Greek because of their own Trojan bloodlines that also spoke the tongue.

The possibilities become nearly endless once you replace the Trojan card with the Babylonian Card.

Excellent theory on the Pillars of Hercules.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 03:04 PM
Everyone contributes in some way, shape, or form to the creation of civilization. You can't build the pyramids with just the pharaoh, you also need the slaves.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 03:14 PM
reply to post by jackflap

I was making reference, to this:

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 03:19 PM
reply to post by infinite

I saw that one, but I thought the Roman-like column was a good fit. Yours is very Atlantean indeed! Thank you for that.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 03:26 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Which also means if Yahweh was in a popularity contest with other similar beings and he was willing to distort or malign them to make him self appear better, how much then has the legend of Yahweh’s own powers also been embellished to lift him and his edicts and teachings up above all the others?

You see God does address this issue. He explains that what the people are actually worshiping is stone and wood and not God's at all. That they are in fact being their own God and writing their own rules. I could provide scriptures to back this up but I don't want this to be about the validity of the Bible.

I am enjoying the conversation as it is and I appreciate your take on this subject. You see, I've already been through all of that and I believe that a God such as the one in the Bible would have gotten His word to us regardless of how many times man translated it. His message would have made it. That's just my opinion though and I see no need in pursuing it.

I do see a need in pursuing the hidden government that can orchestrate things in such a way as to have them at the top when all is said and done!

What if, a being who knows the truth of God appeals to our competitive human nature and pits us against one another making it appear and feel as though we are doing the right thing for God, but in reality we are doing just the opposite of what God intended? Thereby condemning "the faithful" who will gladly kill and be killed for their creator?

[edit on 17-3-2010 by jackflap]

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 04:05 PM
reply to post by jackflap

Clearly people are being manipulated to fight and die for religion presently and not for competing Gods but over competing versions of what God is.

What we do though see through Babylonian legends and cuneiforms is that certain raw materials such as gold and Mir and other things would attract the Gods.

Were these items vital resources that the pre-flood survivors in the post-flood world needed to fuel their technologies and sustain themselves?

If they were the Yahweh asking people not to worship such things as golden idols might have been Yahweh’s way of saying stop collecting and presenting these things as gifts and offerings to the other pre-flood survivors in the post flood world.

Either way it’s a clear entreaty on Yahweh’s part to demand submission. If you don’t want a person telling you what to think, eat, wear, read or say why would you want a none person doing it to you and to submit to that kind of control?

Why would such an entity want to be worshipped? Why would such an entity want control when in fact if he truly was all powerful he could simply make people behave exactly as he wanted without having to be bothered to say or ask or demand anything?

That sounds more like the mode of operation for a manipulative and dominant human being than it does a higher spiritual entity of unlimited power.

One thing is for certain is that freewill exists and to this day institutions and governments are manipulating religion as a tool for limiting freewill of the people who are doing things then purely based on faith that it will be pleasing to Yahweh, aka Jehovah, aka Allah.

Yet once again why would a higher spiritual being who supposedly was all about love and goodness not intercede to straighten out what is essentially an argument over him and what he wants?

I see man in all these things, not a higher spiritual path or being and if you can make a universe in six days you can sure send a post card to straighten some confused people out.

If any of the competing religious books shared by the followers of Abraham’s religion and God were actually dictated by him, then clearly he does know how to dictate a or write and communicate himself.

The speculation as to why that does not happen always puts the onus and responsibility on humans for that happening, someone screwed up, someone lied, someone did something that broke his heart, he wants us to figure it all out blah, blah,

Rule number one in good management is you must inspect what you expect and take the time to correct.

Clearly that is not really happening in this case.

Clearly humans are conspiring to profit off of and gain control and power and riches through that void.

If he ever does show up I will need to see a parental note at this point JackFlap.

While a higher supreme spiritual and moral being(s) might very well exist it is clear that the concept of God is being solely manipulated by man for man’s own selective individual benefit.

What Rome has done in many ways is capture and marketed the concept of a single God and used that as a tool of governance and divide and conquer warfare.

It has led to the wholesale slaughtered of untold hundreds of millions of people throughout the ages and stands poised to lead to the slaughter of potentially billions of people in our life time!

If this God exists and he chooses for what ever reason not to straighten that out or deal with it, it truly is a shame that taught notions of God are keeping people from straightening out themselves.

We will end up with a one world dictatorship at this rate and it will be an island in its own right in a literal sea of corpses it will be born out of, people who all fought to the death based on their own concept and perspective of God as it was taught to them and they were manipulated to behave in destructive ways as a result.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 04:35 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Why would such an entity want to be worshipped? Why would such an entity want control when in fact if he truly was all powerful he could simply make people behave exactly as he wanted without having to be bothered to say or ask or demand anything?

I am going to give you my take on this as quickly as I can. Without trying to sound like a religious nut job! I may come off that way but I am far from that.

You see clearly in the texts that the Angels were created beings. They saw their creator and marveled. All of them worshiped in unique ways and all of them agreed with God. God did not demand anything or that they even worship Him, He just made them for His and their pleasure.

These beings were not mindless robots that were controlled by God. They had free will and they chose to worship their creator on their own. Satan, lifted up with pride thought that he should be the one that was worshiped. God could have blinked them out of existence at this point but that would not be in keeping who He say He is in His word that would come at a later time.

Satan and a third of God's Angels were cast to earth. Now at this point there is only God and the Angels. Good and evil and who is to say who is right and who is wrong between these two paradoxes?

Enter man kind. We are told in God's word that we are in fact Gods. Man is a God. In the sense that we can do whatever we want. We can use good or we could use evil.

I believe we will give an account as to the effect that these two forces had on our existence here on earth. Some will choose the evil side and embrace it. Some will use the good and embrace it. Either way, we will give an account as to what manifested in our lives as a result of both.

I hope I am not coming off as a nut job my friend. I am just telling you what I believe to be true of our reality. How does this all fit into the conversation?

I believe that their is a way to actually harness either good or evil. I believe that someone long ago figured out how to harness the evil and gave himself over to it totally and formulated a plan that was millennium in the making. Trickery is from the devil and it is why we are told to be diligent.

Can I see the Devil's hand in the plan that we see unfolding before our very eyes? Oh yes. Which is why it is imperative to shed light on it regardless of whether you believe in God or not.

I could be one hundred percent wrong and I am still good with that because in the end isn't bringing this situation to light for a good reason? I believe so. If I'm wrong about the whole thing and God doesn't exist, at least we still know an evil plan was exposed.

posted on Mar, 17 2010 @ 05:50 PM
reply to post by jackflap

First JackFlap I understand that people’s religious and spiritual beliefs are important to them. In many ways though those are very much like a good bit of the subject matter of this thread, full of conjecture and often requires people to believe simply because they want to believe and more or less on faith alone.

The difference between most of the subject matter of this thread which is highly speculative and the crux of religion which is highly speculative is one deals with the potential of imminent danger to the mortal body, one deals with the possible dangers to what most hope is in fact the immortal soul.

That there is a God and or and an immortal soul are things we have to take purely on faith.

But we do know for certain that our mortal physical existence is as real as anything can get.

Right now we face a physical world that is in crisis, an age’s old system of scarcity and deprivation has let to an inequitable system where suffering in one form or other is almost mandatory for most people.

Yet the sad truth is that there really is no scarcity of resources that would in fact alleviate so much of the suffering that has plagued humankind for millennia.

Simply put a handful of powerful oligarchs have conspired and acted to control most of the world’s vital resources and use their control of them to virtually enslave us all to a world of corruption, despair, deprivation, war, violence and indifference and humanity as a collective entity suffers to a point of imminent collapse for that.

We have a word for this system of artificial scarcity, hording and rationing and it’s called the economy!

As one might guess words like economy class and economy saver and economy plan are meant to denote less of something.

So at the very heart of our system, our world wide system is in fact the notion that people need to get by and suffer with less and to have less even though there is no real reason for them to have to. Abundant technology, abundant resources and abundant distribution systems logistically make this entirely unnecessary.

Yet the principle of economy is to conserve and horde and dole out less and progressively condition people to get by with less.

We see this happening in America right now, once a land of opportunity and plenty where suddenly there are no opportunities and while there is still plenty of everything to be had fewer and fewer people actually are in a situation where they can obtain those things.
Earlier in the thread we discussed in depth the possibility that the exorbitant cost of bread and circuses and maintaining a military based empire was bankrupting the Roman Empire of all its resources.

That they likely conspired to create a new system that offered the promise of eternal salvation and a better life after this one in exchange for a better life in this known mortal existence solely for the sake of economy.

So Rome’s principals could keep on conquering the world through deception cheaply and using deception and creating divisions amongst various nations and religions and ethnicities to fight one another eliminate one another and keep creating a larger and larger homogenous and easier to manage and cheaper to manage mass of humanity in that process.

So let’s take a moment to talk about economy of religion.

The Roman Parthenon of Gods was extensive it included basically every God worshipped by both the Romans and all of the people’s it conquered. Had Rome not employed this system of honoring the Gods of the conquered we would have never heard of Yahweh or Jesus Christ.

Yet each God required its own temples, its own priests, its own laity and worshipers. It was a huge apparatus to maintain, many choices, many freedoms, a big cost to provide.

Let’s talk about the Power of religion a moment. The priests of Bacchus had to compete with the priests of Venus who had to compete with the priests of Zeus who had to compete with the priests of Ceres and so on and so forth for congregants and offerings and donations.

So not only was it an expensive slate of options to provide people it was also very limiting for greater power and control for any one individual sect or priestly class that had to compete for limited resources and worshipers with so many other sects and priestly classes.

Caesar himself reserved the title of Pontificus Maximus, Rome’s chief and high priest and could in essence be the supreme mortal religious authority in that fashion but clearly having to be the supreme religious authority for dozens and dozens of different gods and sects must have been a daunting task to say the least.

Economy more than anything is about streamlining things, eliminating overlapping areas of management and facilities and limiting choices and options.

Want a boarding pass on your South West Airlines flight? Forget about it! Cheap fare you get a number at the airport and fight for a space on the plane once it’s been called.
That’s what economy is all about limiting choices and services and the artificial scarcity paradigm that makes up our economy is all about limiting choices and services and getting people to pay more and more for them while giving them fewer and fewer choices and less and less service to maximize profit.

When you call your Bank do you initially get to talk to a human being or a machine? Does the machine that answers the call then transfer you to another machine before finally 10 or 15 minutes later you get to talk to a human being?

That’s called maximizing profit through economy fewer employees, fewer costs, less service, more profit. More power!

Now as we go back through antiquity there were literally hundreds if not thousands of deities that were worshipped all over the world and worshipped in places that no one had ever heard of the Middle East or a Spartan harsh dessert God named Yahweh.

Whether it was the Norsemen or the Britons, the Aztec or the Maya, the Indians, or the Egyptians, the Africans or the Persians, the Indians, or the Japanese or Aborigines, or the Pacific Islanders or the Chinese they all had Gods that by and large predated any recorded reference of Yahweh.

Nor did Yahweh take any time to communicate with them or make his presence known.

It was Rome and Rome’s various armies and its allies the Jews that Rome dispersed along with them selves throughout the world to basically force the knowledge of this God Yahweh on the rest of the world.

If that was Yahweh’s plan it was brutally inefficient and led to the violent and sometimes exceptionally cruel deaths of millions upon millions.

Why would he do that if in fact he was the sole creator of everyone and everything? Why just present yourself to one group of nomadic dessert tribes who lacked the ability and means to travel the entire world at that present time themselves?

Why pick those people of all the others you had created to be the only ones to communicate with? Why then rely on a dominant and violent empire like Rome to actually make spreading your glory possible?

When you look at the sheer number of Gods in antiquity and further consider that the Hebrews still will not name their God(s) and never have and write it like: G-d and refer to him as our lord, then what you have is a statistical anomaly as far as that one God out of all the thousands being the one and only true McCoy.

When you consider for the most part it had to be thrust on people all over the world violently by men and men seeking riches and glory and dominance and power then you are really, really banking on a tremendous long shot in my opinion.

Now lets go a step further, if when you were a child you grew up in a multi-God household where one God wasn’t put to you as being the only true God and all powerful and all seeing from basically the moment of your birth on by a system of governance and control that grew out of the economy of religion.

Lets say your parents and priests and government officials told you all about the legends of the Nordic Gods and the Roman Gods and the Hindu Gods and the Aztec Gods and the Egyptian Gods and the Grecian Gods and so on and so forth and told you that they were all real and you should know about them all and you should pick one or a few as your patron in life.

Would you have really picked Yahweh, I myself loved Norse Mythology, I liked Egyptian Mythology and Greek and Roman Mythology too, and as a small boy who wasn’t forced into religion I often lamented that these very colorful Gods weren’t real.

But if they weren’t real why then was Yahweh real.

Honestly if there was a Temple to Bacchus and an orgy going on, that’s where I would likely be right now!

Rome began conquering the world through its famous entreaty “Rome offers you war or peace it matters not to Rome which you decide”

Rome always offered a two sided coin, you could have with onions or without but you were having a burger one way or another as far as they were concerned.

So what we see is a two sided coin once again. Yahweh or Lucifer, Good or Evil, yet the truth is a lot more people have died in Yahweh’s name than Lucifer’s.

English men killed for God and Country, Arabs shout God is great as they rush into battle.

What I see is nothing but a two sided coin, limited choices, a choice that literally even boils down to you believe in God or you don’t. You are going to hell or you aren’t.

(continued on next page)

[edit on 17/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

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