The Illustrated History of MJ-12

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by Gazrok
Since the case for Roswell has been proven -beyond a reasonable doubt-

No it hasn't. Stop pretending that everyone accepts an "alien spacecraft" crashed at Roswell.

Originally posted by Turiddu

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by Gazrok
Since the case for Roswell has been proven -beyond a reasonable doubt-

No it hasn't. Stop pretending that everyone accepts an "alien spacecraft" crashed at Roswell.

edit on 28-6-2011 by Turiddu because: (no reason given)

Yes it has. Stop pretending that most reasonable people familiar with all the evidence think otherwise.

Your usual one liners never add to the discussion.

Originally posted by Turiddu

Originally posted by A51Watcher
reply to post by Gazrok
Since the case for Roswell has been proven -beyond a reasonable doubt-

No it hasn't. Stop pretending that everyone accepts an "alien spacecraft" crashed at Roswell.

edit on 28-6-2011 by Turiddu because: (no reason given)

You are both wrong. The Air Force closed the case. Case Closed.

The conclusions are Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. "Aliens" observed in the New Mexico desert were actually anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research.

Source (.MIL site)

reply to post by BIGPoJo

The conclusions are Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. "Aliens" observed in the New Mexico desert were actually anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research.

What they fail to mention, is that the dummies in question, part of operation (High Dive) weren't there until 5 years AFTER the Roswell incident.

Oops...damn government fact-checkers... Those silly witnesses must have been looking at dummies in the future, not alien bodies.

There's very little doubt in my mind that the Majestic 12 documents are fairly well researched fan fiction. I've really become fascinated with UFOs during the Truman years and don't think for a second that anything along those lines was ever put in writing. Gen. Robert Landry's oral history at the Truman Library alludes to this when he wrote about his UFO briefings for Truman. Nothing in writing . . . ever.

The Eisenhower briefing document, supposedly the most authentic of the bunch? Chances it's legit are nil. When Eisenhower came into office, the CIA director was Bedell Smith who had been Eisenhower's chief of staff for much of WWII. If there was a briefing to give, I think Smith would have done it, again orally, not Hillenkoeter.

By the way, if you've ever seen the movie Patton, the guy who was always yelling at Patton on behalf of Eisenhower was Bedell Smith.

Here's some more on UFOs and president truman.

reply to post by Gazrok


MJ12?

hmm....

I don't quite believe this whole story. It sounds a little cooked up.

Beware of the men in gray....

Fantastic reading.
Thanks for posting the link Gazrok!

reply to post by Gazrok


Look at my edit that was posted the same day. I was making the point that the AirFarce closed the case using false time-lines.

Robert Wood and his son seem to think the Majestic Documents have some truth. Whether that makes them suspect or not or means the Majestic documents should be taken more seriously is the question I'd like to answer.

What do you think Gazrok? Does endorsement of the Majestic documents by the Woods give you any confidence in them? (I know some are bogus/altered by the way.)

I should clarify that the case for a Government coverup in Roswell is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

The Woods' authentication process is pretty impressive. I actually purchased the document collection, which also details how they went about verifying, etc. Like many, I think there is a certain amount of truth AND fiction within the documents. The involvement of Aviary members (look up if you need more on this) makes it suspect, but they are only connected to a few documents, and there are MANY.

In any case, the overall picture the documents paint is what most impresses me, and seems to simply fit too neatly to be the lucky conglomeration of numerous hoaxers. For starters, some of these things, like the committee that seems to be the foundation for Majestic, weren't even KNOWN about when the documents surface. It would have been easier for the government to simply say the agency didn't exist, in their refusal of docs for FOIA...but instead, they acknowledged this previously unknown group's existence.

reply to post by Gazrok

I agree about Roswell. Without the Majestic documents there is no doubt about there being a cover-up and I don't see many contenders for the explanation either. I think we are on the same page regarding that looking at your ATS contributions.

I haven't seen all of the Woods stuff, just some of what they have made available online. From what I see, if the whole thing is hoaxed then the hoaxers are seriously involved in something like Majestic 12 anyway or they wouldn't have known about the machinations that were hidden from public view surely.

Regarding the Aviary, that was why I asked. Rob Wood is in a similar "game" to Hal Puthoff who we "know" is Aviary. We know about the links of some MJ-12 docs with the Aviary so I just had this nagging doubt.... What if Robert Wood is Aviary. Being so high up in MUFON would be a big "infiltration". Obviously this is speculation and there may be nothing in it. I have no solid evidence thus far.

reply to post by Pimander


An interesting proposition...but yeah, like you, I haven't seen anything to support such a conclusion.

If a hoax, then this was a massive effort of both collaboration and research. Undoubtedly, some of the documents contain falsehoods or items uncharacteristic of what one would expect to see in such documents...but there are a LOT of documents, and only a few really questionable ones.

reply to post by Gazrok

Well, I do have more really.

Nobody ever seems to have the next bit. Does UFO Working Group mean anything to you?

reply to post by Pimander


Are you referring to the STAR report, about the group in the 80's?

or

The "Working Group" as was also (at least in some docs) kind of the unofficial name of those involved in what was the IPU (Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit), that then became MAJIC.

I'm assuming the former, as the "UFO" moniker didn't happen until some time after this. UFOB was formerly the military's designation for UFOs, back in the 40's.

Note, the IPU was mentioned in the docs, and then confirmed by the government when it responded to FOIA requests, directing inquiries to the Air Force who now handles files related to the disbanded unit.

reply to post by Gazrok

I'm talking about one Robert Wood was a member of. They met to discuss UFO's in a DIA facility basement for 5 days in 1985. Howard Blum discusses it "Out There." Apparently many of the attendees of the meeting ended up being Aviary members. It is possibly how they met. I will let you know when I write this up if you are interested.

An ongoing link to the Aviary for more senior members of MUFON looks fascinating in my view. More on the implications later.

great opening post gazrok .

thanks for the time and effort.

also , dont forget kissenger & rockefeller . i'm sure those two also know what's going on.

reply to post by Gazrok

Hal Puthoff was also part of the working group to which I refer.

What a fantastic find . I can't wait to start reading this .
I have recently been researching Eisenhower's meeting at Hollowman and I'm totally fascinated by the subject .

reply to post by OrionHunterX


Well thats is interesting indeed, and I totaly think researcher Joseph P. Farrell is spot on when he says, the craft was NOT of ET origin.

reply to post by Gazrok


"just a few days after the incident in LA, the President directs Marshall to proceed with plans regarding “atomic secrets learned from the study of celestial devices”

This makes it sound as if there was a disk recovered from LA and that no disk was recovered in Missouri in April 1941.