The Illustrated History of MJ-12

page: 1
197
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
+162 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 12:44 PM
link   
The existence of the Majestic 12, MAJIC, or MJ-12 has long been a subject of debate or even ridicule. However, if you accept the premise that the U.S. government has a recovered alien craft in their possession, then at some point, people would have been mobilized to study the artifact. In addition, you would have to concede that there would be some trail, no matter how secretive, of the creation of this group.


Alleged Majestic 12 members


What follows is an attempt to put together a timeline or history of the establishment of this alleged group. I will add the disclaimer that while supplemented with other references, much of the information comes from the still hotly debated Majestic documents that first surfaced in the early 1980’s, but I will also stress the research on authenticating the documents. While some of the documents can be shown as possibly falsified, the overall story and history is remarkably consistent, in line with other period docs, and indicative of the kind of people you would want to study this phenomenon. If the docs are the concerted effort of a group of conmen, then they have certainly gone through a lot of research, effort, and hard work to not profit from it. I’ve also added biographical links for anyone who wants to learn more about each alleged member of the committee.

Prior warning: This will be a LONG post, so have some time available when you read it. It may even be multiple posts in a row due to the character limit. Part of my goal is to put some faces with the names, of the alleged biggest secret keepers of all time. Even if you feel all of the documents are false, the story is an interesting read.

A note about the Majestic Documents team: Dr. Robert M. and Ryan S. Wood seek to authenticate or refute the documents based on five specific criteria including: original and its source, typographical info, chronology, content (links, comparison to other documents, etc.), and provenance (how it relates to how other documents flowed, were kept, etc.). Additional members of the team, according to the team’s site, include: Nick Redfern, Stanton F. Friedman, Timothy S. Cooper, Jim Clarkson, and our own Jim Marrs (who is certainly invited to comment). The documents’ sources are listed here: www.majesticdocuments.com...

THE BEGINNING: THE IPU & THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON NON-TERRESTRIAL SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

In 1942, 5 years before Roswell, there was another little-known, but very public, UFO incident often referred to as the Battle of L.A. I won’t go into detail here, as I’ve done so in a previous post (link below), but suffice to say, an Army unit fired on a UFO for some time, and the media reported no craft downed. Numerous witnesses reported seeing the craft, and the LA Times had a great photo of the incident.


Newspaper photo (LA Times) of the Battle of LA event

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Battle of LA thread

In a memo to General George C. Marshall, from President FDR (2/27/42), just a few days after the incident in LA, the President directs Marshall to proceed with plans regarding “atomic secrets learned from the study of celestial devices”. He authorizes Dr. Bush (Vannevar Bush is the assumption) to proceed with the project. (This is NOT the Manhattan Project, which had started earlier and also due to Vannavar’s push for it (1939), but separate). www.atomicarchive.com...
It would appear from this memo, if genuine, that a craft was indeed recovered, and some things had been learned from examining it. This memo has a high rating on the authenticity scale.

www.majesticdocuments.com...
Marshall’s memo


General George C. Marshall: (Army Chief of Staff, won Nobel Peace Prize in 1953) nobelprize.org...


FDR: Franklin Delenor Roosevelt (President, during WWII) www.whitehouse.gov...


Dr. Vannevar Bush (Former director, and member of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics NACA, National Defense Research Committee, Office of Scientific Research and Development, and like Marshall, had a close working relationship with FDR) en.wikipedia.org... (I know, wiki, but it’s great for bio info). Despite the temptation, he does not seem to be directly related to the modern, political Bush family.

A week later, George Marshall writes a memo to FDR (3/5/42) where he requests that a special group be set up to study the material and phenomenon. By now, it is confirmed to not be of a foreign power or of Earthly origin. This memo is believed to be the order that establishes the precursor to Majestic. It is called the IPU (Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit). It must be remembered that at this time, the terms “flying saucer” or even “UFO” had not been coined, and the references to “celestial” or “interplanetary” are consistent with the period. In addition, official inquiries via the Freedom of Information Act for information regarding the IPU do confirm that such a unit existed. When CUFON (Computer UFO Network) tried to request through FOIA (Freedom of Information Act), this was the official response:

"Please be advised that the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit of the Scientific and Technical Branch, Counter Intelligence Directorate, Department of the Army, was disestablished during the late 1950’s and never reactivated. All records pertaining to this unit were surrendered to the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) in conjunction with operation "Bluebook”.
We regret that we are unable to be of more assistance concerning this matter."

Continued requests from referenced offices met with similar, canned responses, and no release of information. AFOSI denies they have any files related to the IPU. If the document is a hoax, it is a wonder how the hoaxers would have known about this unit’s actual existence, prior to any other mention of it.
www.cufon.org...

www.majesticdocuments.com...
Marshall’s Memo

Two years later (1944), another committee in addition to the IPU, are called out as the Special Committee on Non-terrestrial Science and Technology, in a memo from FDR to the group. In this memo, FDR basically states that due to the cost of the atomic bomb program, and the urgency to win the war, further “exploratory research” will have to wait. For the document, the classification of “double top secret” is a little known one, but is a legitimate one.

www.majesticdocuments.com...

Three years later (1947) and only a month before the Roswell Incident, there is the Oppenheimer – Einstein Draft. This letter goes into the social ramifications of the alien problem, defense implications, and the legal predicament.


Einstein and Oppenheimer

According to the documentation, these two luminaries were involved in investigating the artifacts at least on a consultation basis. Of course, their inclusion makes perfect logical sense; given their existing security clearance and secrecy for the other projects they were involved with…namely, the atomic bomb.

www.majesticdocuments.com...
The Oppenheimer – Einstein Draft


Albert Einstein – Winner of the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1921, and his research provided the basis for the atomic bomb. nobelprize.org...


J. Robert Oppenheimer – Often referred to as the father of the atomic bomb. Headed Los Alamos. en.wikipedia.org...

ROSWELL INCIDENT


Roswell Daily Record Newspaper Front Page


Artist conception of first crash site (not the Brazel site)

Roswell was a major change in the game. On July 4, 1947, there is an IPU field order to send a team to the first Roswell crash site (not Brazel’s). This would appear to represent the first recovery during peacetime, and although the recovery stayed secret for many years (from 1947 to 1978, when Friedman interviewed Mac Brazel), it eventually became the most infamous UFO case in all of UFOlogy. For more information on Roswell, please see this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Roswell threads (long reads)

www.majesticdocuments.com...
IPU Order

The next day (7/5/47), Bush writes President Truman. This memo points out the need for a joint body to implement the recommendations of the different committees that sprung out of the IPU. This is believed to be the suggestion that later provided the basis for the Majestic 12.

www.majesticdocuments.com...
Bush’s memo to Truman


President Truman: (Roosevelt’s VP for a few weeks, then President. When he became President in 1945, he was briefed on the atomic bomb program (and allegedly MJ-12) and said, “I felt like the moon, the stars, and all the planets had fallen on me.”) www.whitehouse.gov...

Three days later, (7/8/47) and the second crash site has already been discovered by Brazel, and examined by the military. The story is in the papers about Roswell Army Air Field capturing a downed disc. This is quickly retracted by the military. General Twining is ordered by Eisenhower to make an appraisal of the recovery. President Truman signs nearly an identical letter of authorization the next day. Those who have read Corso’s The Day After Roswell, will note Twining’s involvement begins here, as does the debris that made it to Corso. Corso, who worked directly under Lt. Gen. Trudeau, would later detail how he was directed to farm out the Roswell debris artifacts to different defense contractors in order to work the technology into current defense projects. While Corso’s ego is a bit much, he certainly was in the right place at the right time to do such a thing, and he often admitted to things he did not know, including why the delay in acting on the debris. From previous documents, it appears the President at the time was reluctant to split his brain trust away from the atomic bomb project.

www.majesticdocuments.com...
Eisenhower’s order
www.majesticdocuments.com...
Truman’s order


General Nathan F. Twining: (Commander of Air Materiel Command (AMC), Initiated Project Sign in 1947, was later (under Ike) Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff)


Meeting of Project Sign


Dwight D. Eisenhower: (General, and later President, Allied Commander during WWII, Supreme NATO Commander) www.whitehouse.gov...


Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso: (Chief of the Pentagon’s Foreign Technology desk in Army Research under Lt. Gen. Arthur Trudeau. Confirms there was a top-secret group led by Hillenkoetter. Author of The Day After Roswell).


Lt. General Arthur Trudeau: (Chief of Army Intelligence, until a memo from Dulles (Director of the CIA) later got him relieved of command. en.wikipedia.org... This act would seem to reinforce Corso’s claims of the animosity between Army Intelligence and the CIA, and the Army’s view that the CIA had been penetrated by the Soviets [a claim later substantiated by the identification of a number of Soviet spies]. Trudeau is the one who allegedly gave Corso access to a small amount of the Roswell debris)

A week later (7/16/47), Twining allegedly sends his Air Accident report, and it is a blockbuster. It contains details of the inner workings of the craft. The technical phrases are consistent with state of the art (for 47), and the descriptive details are plentiful. Amazingly, many of these details sound similar to Bob Lazar’s account of reverse-engineering craft at S-4 near Area 51: central reactor, pylons under the reactor, no weld marks, doors with a type of solidification process, etc. I’m skeptical of a lot of the small details of this document, and I personally do not think it to be genuine. For one, there is the mention of Mogul being related to a bladeless turbine project (which isn’t remotely substantiated with any other documentation on Mogul). For another, there is a reference to a 1941 crash retrieval that isn’t mentioned in any of the other documents. I included it as an example of the bad mixed with the good, and as an example of how you can identify each. I do believe there was such a report, as a) it is a logical conclusion of such an investigation, b) the White Hot report seems to be the natural result of the accident report, and c) the details are just too weirdly coincidental to be complete fabrication (or so it would seem to me)…

www.majesticdocuments.com...
Twining’s report

There are several other Roswell-related documents as well, but in this post, I am focusing on those more involved with the history of the group. At some point between the middle of July and the middle of September, the MAJIC group is formed to oversee the problem., likely stemming from Bush’s suggestion on the 5th of July.

FORMATION OF MAJIC (MAJESTIC TWELVE)



Two months later (9/19/47), Hillenkoetter writes a memo for the Military Assessment of the Joint Intelligence Committee (or MAJIC ). The memo references a captured craft (i.e. likely from LA) and a recovered craft (i.e. Roswell). Related previous IPU documents are reclassified with MAJIC designations.

www.majesticdocuments.com...


Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter: (Vice Admiral, Navy, Director of the CIA, one of the heads of NICAP from 57-62 en.wikipedia.org... In 1952, we see him emerge as head of MJ-12 (i.e. M-1), but soon after, he played both sides of the UFO issue, on one hand, being the primary secret keeper, while later publicly urging citizens to push for disclosure through NICAP. Through the MJ-12 documents and alleged letters, a picture emerges of a man who used his position with NICAP to sway public opinion when needed by the committee. In addition, with any military UFO report going through military intel to the CIA, he was well positioned to act on any sightings and direct the group’s efforts.)

On the same day, Twining’s “White Hot” report appears. This document has one of the highest confidence ratings by the research team of any of the other documents, as being genuine. This is where the designation for ULAT first appears (Unidentified Lenticular Aerodyne Technology), and ULAT-1 is the designation for the “craft”.

www.majesticdocuments.com...

This was a busy week for the MAJIC group. Five days later (9/24/47), in a memo to Secretary of State James Forrestal, Truman officially names the project “Operation Majestic Twelve”. (Incidentally, this is the date given in the SOM1-01 manual as the foundation date also)

www.majesticdocuments.com...


James Forrestal: (Secretary of Defense, dismissed in 1949 by Truman, and later had a mysterious death. It was ruled a suicide unofficially, and “died following a fall” officially, stating that he fell while trying to hang himself (there was a bathrobe tied around his neck). Critics point to signs of a struggle in evidence photos, and wonder why a man just recently on suicide watch would even be on the 16th Floor!!!

MAJIC MEMBERS (1948)

In 1948, the MAJIC group submits its first annual report. By this time, there are more than 12 members (14 listed on the cover page of the report). They include the following:

Dr. Vannevar Bush (MAJIC Chairman, Scientist, info above)


General J. (“Lightning Joe”) Lawton Collins : (Deputy Chief of Staff, U.S. Army, his nephew, Michael Collins was the Command Module Pilot for Apollo 11. Was directly involved in setup of NATO) en.wikipedia.org...


Major General Luther D. Miller : (Chief of Chaplains, U.S. Army, He would seem an odd choice, but remember, part of the mission was also to examine all of the social/religious, etc. ramifications of the alien problem. By using a Chaplain, they could use the secrecy of the military while still getting clerical opinion. Tough photo to find, him and his son…) www.arlingtoncemetery.net...


General Hoyt S. Vandenberg : (Vice Chief of Staff, U.S.A.F., Director of Central Intelligence (precursor to the CIA)) www.arlingtoncemetery.net...


Lt. General Lewis H. Brereton : (Chairman, Military Liaison, Cmt. AEC, Atomic Energy Commission, was actually based here in my hometown for quite some time…, was also assigned to the Office of the Secretary of War) www.arlingtoncemetery.net...


Major General George C. McDonald : (Director of Intelligence, U.S.A.F., OSS member (Office of Strategic Services, another intel group prior to the CIA), outstanding pilot) www.af.mil...


Brigadier General George F. Schulgen : (Director, Plans and Policies, U.S.A.F., Assistant Chief of Staff) No bio available.

Rear Admiral Paul F. Lee : (Chief, Office of Naval Research, U.S. Navy) (no photo found, he has a mountain named after him at 71 27 S and 74 35 W, but no picture on the web…granted, the mountain is in Antarctica, but still…After the military, he became VP of Gibbs/Cox, a major ship-builder for the Defense Department)


Admiral John E. Gingrich : (Director, Security and Intelligence, AEC, Chief of Navy Materiel). No, I didn’t see any relation connection with Newt Gingrich in my research….but, sure is interesting how these same names keep popping up, isn’t it? wapedia.mobi...

Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer (Scientist, info above)


Jerome C. Hunsaker : (MIT, National Academy of Sciences, heavily involved in aircraft development) en.wikipedia.org...


Detlev W. Bronk : (Chairman, National Research Council, involved with many government think tanks, allegedly assisted in the autopsies of alien bodies) en.wikipedia.org...


Dr. Hugh L. Dryden : (Director of Aeronautical Research, NACA, member of numerous advisory committees, instrumental in developing the US space program) en.wikipedia.org...


Dr. James H. Doolittle : (Shell Oil, aviation pioneer, General in the U.S.A.F., MIT, developed instrument flying, worked on ballistic missile and space programs, considered a war hero) en.wikipedia.org...

www.majesticdocuments.com...

This (and the previous members/consultants) is truly a panel you’d want heading up the effort to examine alien craft, existence, and examine what the political and social fallout of such a discovery could be. The report contents are likely similar to an alleged Hillenkoetter memo to Truman summarizing the group’s activities to date.

The next annual report document is for 1952, the committee’s fifth annual report. The 17 page report contains references to alleged outgrowths from the finds/recoveries, and specific and checkable details (which I hope to go into in a later post).

www.majesticdocuments.com...

In 1952, we see the committee get back to 12 members (half the membership is new), although it is evident that at some point during this time (48-52), the committee was already put at 12 (as Forrestal’s death created a vacancy that was then filled). The members in 1952 are:

(The veterans)
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter
Dr. Vannevar Bush
General Nathan F. Twining
Dr. Detlov Bronk
Dr. Jerome Hunsaker

(The newbies, although no strangers to the black ops world)

Rear Admiral Sidney W. Souers : (Deputy Director of Naval Intelligence, then Director of Central Intelligence, appointed by Truman, one of the architects of the CIA) en.wikipedia.org...


Gordon Gray : (National Security Advisor under Eisenhower, his son was an advisor to George H. W. Bush, and his nephew is CFO of the EPA) en.wikipedia.org...(politician)


Dr. Donald H, Menzel : (Physicist, very public UFO skeptic, wrote books to convince all the phenomenon was a mental condition or natural phenomenon, Princeton, Harvard, Director of the Harvard Observatory, heavy into astronomy) en.wikipedia.org...


General Robert M. Montague : (Guided missile expert, Commander of Fort Bliss, headed nuclear Armed Forces Special Weapons Center, Sandia) www.zerotime.com...


Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner : (Physicist, radio expert) en.wikipedia.org...


General Walter B. Smith (Forrestal’s replacement): (Director of Central Intelligence after Hillenkoetter, worked closely with Marshall and Eisenhower) en.wikipedia.org...

In April of 1954, the SOM1-01 Recovery and Disposal appearsd. This document has one of the highest degrees of confidence by the team from the authentication criteria. For example, the references on the back page are genuine, and the corresponding 1954 documents can be retrieved from the Archives. One of the strangest things I found, is a page listing the coded locations where technological and biological items should be sent. One listing is especially ominous…”S-4”. The manual is allegedly intended for MAJIC retrieval team personnel to assist them in their duties. There is a thread on this manual here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
SOM1-01 discussion

www.majesticdocuments.com...
www.majesticdocuments.com...
SOM1-01 Manual (2 parts)

In November of 1961 (11/5/61), Allen W. Dulles wrote an operations review of the MJ-12 Project. If genuine, it shows that he was aware of the program and was privy to its operations (which is fitting, as many other directors (prior to being formed as the CIA) were alleged MJ-12 members).

www.majesticdocuments.com...


Allen W. Dulles : (Director of Central Intelligence, considered the founding father of the CIA, long career in intel and black ops…pretty much any conspiracy theory involves this man…especially any concerning JFK, who openly criticized him) en.wikipedia.org...

AN ONGOING CAMPAIGN OF DISINFORMATION

On September 19, 1963, Hillenkoetter wrote a letter to Menzel, congratulating him on his efforts in the disinformation campaign:

www.majesticdocuments.com...

Also in the early 60’s, is the so-called “Burned Memo”. This memo, allegedly from Hillenkoetter (MJ-1) to the other members contains references to many other projects in addition to MJ-12. Also, it is on original onionskin papers, has forensically verified red ink of the time period, and rare counter-intelligence (CI) stamps. The team has a very high confidence rating for this document. This is another document that really warrants a post all its own.

www.majesticdocuments.com...
www.majesticdocuments.com...

WHERE IS MAJESTIC TWELVE TODAY?

Given it’s apparent increased independence and detachment from the government oversight and funding process, it is my assessment that the program continues with its objective through a good-old-boy network of highly-placed members and those long-established in the defense and intelligence communities. In short, they are where they’ve always been, hiding in plain sight. I doubt it uses the MJ-12 moniker these days, although it did seem to use the name for quite some time. It is also likely a lot less organized, as the mechanisms for controlling the information have long been in place.

The verdict is still out on the documents, but you have to admit, it sure seems like a lot of work to go through for no real return. If we accept the idea of crashed UFO’s retrieved by the U.S. government, SOMEONE had to have covered it up, and studied the craft. Numerous generals, majors, and sergeants have come forward and said the same things….we recovered craft, we covered it up…and these were certainly folks in the right positions to make it happen.



Note: I do have the full version CD with all documents on them, so if there are questions concerning something that isn’t visible in the online docs (as only some of the info is online), please let me know, and I’ll do my best to find time to reference and answer them. I plan on expanding this effort into other threads on specific docs and/or members as I get the time to do so (mostly because, as I’ve looked through the specifics on them, I’m more amazed at some of the corroboration, than I am minute errors, when I was originally expecting to find more inconsistencies)…

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Gazrok]




posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 12:54 PM
link   
I don't have the time to sit down today for this; though I love the way the beginning sounds.
I will check it all out later; and flag you now because I already know it's going to be good.
Flag.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:10 PM
link   
The FBI has concluded the associated MJ 12 documents are "completely bogus". From what I understand anyway.


+12 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:14 PM
link   
Nice presentation and I can respect all the diligence and hard work you put into this.

There are a few gentlemen in your list that have always stood out in my mind when it came to the Unidentified Flying Object phenomena. For example General Nathan Twining. For some reason his statements (although not really profound in today's world), has always been a motivational point for me to continue my researching into this phenomena where he said:

"This flying saucer situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious."

General Nathan Twining
Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff


Thanks again for all your hard work in putting this post together. Lets hope this can be an example to other ATS members instead of a simple YouTube link with a one line post that says; "I found this video and I think it's real, what do you think".. (bleh
)

Johnny

::::EDIT TO ADD:::::


Originally posted by SuperSlovak
The FBI has concluded the associated MJ 12 documents are "completely bogus". From what I understand anyway.


Come on now SuperSlovak... you've been here at ATS long enough to know that you should in the least have some links from the FBI to back up a statement like that...

[edit on 12/31/2009 by JohnnyAnonymous]



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:18 PM
link   

The FBI looked into how one "top secret" document became public, only to close the investigation when it discovered that the document was a fake.


+2 more 
posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:28 PM
link   

The FBI has concluded the associated MJ 12 documents are "completely bogus". From what I understand anyway.


And the FBI would be in a position to know how? This is completely outside their operational scope, and of course, is similar to saying the FBI would have all details of the atomic bomb project. It was a military committee, if it existed.

This claim also does not address how the documents mention a unit (the IPU) that had never previously been mentioned in any publication nor previously confirmed by the military as existing.

And of course, there is the issue of the FBI being an arm of the very organization allegedly keeping the secret....


I won't dispute that some of the docs have issues, but I'm more interested in analyzing the overall story that emerges from them, and of how difficult this would be for multiple authors to devise, corroborate, and research, for seemingly no gain...without some basis in truth. Even one of Moore's memos (was from Schulgen to another party) was doctored, but even when compared to the actual FOIA released document (was released after Moore's copy was received), the content was no different, and most details were similar, almost as if Moore (or whomever he got it from) was trying to reproduce...


The FBI looked into how one "top secret" document became public, only to close the investigation when it discovered that the document was a fake.


Well, that cinches it, if one of the docs, from one of the many sources, is a fake, then all must be, case closed....
Kind of a hasty conclusion, don't you think?

To JohnnyAnonymous,

Thanks. Many of the alleged members had similar quotes about the threat from the stars, etc.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Gazrok]



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:29 PM
link   
What an excellent presentation, very well laid out in a manner as to show all the pieces falling into place. Quite intriguing to say the least...

As far as the FBI being honest and forthcoming about information regarding documents relating to national security?

Are you serious?



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:36 PM
link   
reply to post by Gazrok
 


You think Harry Truman would just let a sensitive document like this go to the public? I don't think so. If it was real it would be guarded.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:40 PM
link   
Last I checked, Truman wasn't around in the 80's to stop it...
(sorry, but had to be said)

Your counter-argument is that top secret information is never leaked?
Numerous, and non-UFO related examples exist that refute that claim...



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
In short, they are where they’ve always been, hiding in plain sight. I doubt it uses the MJ-12 moniker these days, although it did seem to use the name for quite some time. It is also likely a lot less organized, as the mechanisms for controlling the information have long been in place.


But who is it? It seems odd there is all this readily available information about the originators of the program but nothing available about the inheritors...



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous
 


Here is a link to the investigation


foia.fbi.gov...


case closed?



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
...

I won't dispute that some of the docs have issues, but I'm more interested in analyzing the overall story that emerges from them, and of how difficult this would be for multiple authors to devise, corroborate, and research, for seemingly no gain...without some basis in truth. Even one of Moore's memos (was from Schulgen to another party) was doctored, but even when compared to the actual FOIA released document (was released after Moore's copy was received), the content was no different, and most details were similar, almost as if Moore (or whomever he got it from) was trying to reproduce...
...


What if they were made, at the time, by multiple authors, potentially the people in question, as a rather clever way to hide Cold War activities? To create a myth as a distraction? That would seem to me to explain the consistent documents, and provide a solid motive.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
As far as the FBI being honest and forthcoming about information regarding documents relating to national security?

Are you serious?


Are you serious?

Do you understand the contradiction you are making here?



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:47 PM
link   

Illustrated History of MJ-12

The existence of the Majestic 12, MAJIC, or MJ-12 has long been a subject of debate or even ridicule. However, if you accept the premise that the U.S. government has a recovered alien craft in their possession, then at some point, people would have been mobilized to study the artifact. In addition, you would have to concede that there would be some trail, no matter how secretive, of the creation of this group.


Truly a waste of bandwidth! The premise has to be accepted for it to have any reality. If the premise is not accepted this whole thread is just bull defecation. No government has any recovered alien craft and no government has the knowledge to reverese anything that is light years ahead of present human knowledge. Never mind Bob Lazar's allegations. Common sense and logic are missing from this post.

There is no Majestic 12 as claimed by those whose primary goal is to make money off the gullible. And do not discount the information below just because I copied it off Wikipedia which was the first source in a google search which produced 155,000 pages!

Majestic 12 is strictly for fools.

Majestic 12
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The 1947 letter, purported to be signed by Harry Truman, authorizing "Operation Majestic Twelve".Majestic 12 (also known as Majic 12, Majestic Trust, M12, MJ 12, MJ XII or Majority 12) is the purported code name of a secret committee of scientists, military leaders, and government officials, supposedly formed in 1947 by an executive order of U.S. President Harry S Truman (The FBI has concluded the associated documents are "completely bogus", though it addresses matters which would clearly supersede their scope and authority). The purpose of the committee was allegedly to investigate UFO activity in the aftermath of the Roswell incident - the purported crash of an alien spaceship near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947. This alleged committee is an important part of the UFO conspiracy theory of an ongoing government cover up of UFO information.
------------
The FBI investigated the documents, and concluded they were forgeries, based primarily on an opinion rendered by AFOSI, the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Opinions among UFO researchers are divided: Some argue the documents may be genuine while others contend they are phony, primarily due to errors in formatting and chronology.
------------
All of them are controversial, with many disputing their authenticity. A few have been proven to be unquestionably fraudulent, usually retyped rewrites of unrelated government documents.
------------



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous
 


Here is a link to the investigation


foia.fbi.gov...


case closed?



Far from being closed, but at least you provided the link which is what I beseech-ed you (and all members for that matter) need to do when making a statement/claim.

We have to remember that many here want to be able to look this information up themselves.. hence my asking you to post the links (I knew where they were at, I'm just trying to get members back into the routine again of posting links).

So thanks!!!
Johnny



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:50 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperSlovak
 


Well there you go. With one simple post you have single handedly brought the whole MJ-12 phenomenon and countless testimonials as well as years of research, not to mention all of the time and effort invested by the OP to bring this to our attention, TO IT"S KNEES!!!!

Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication.


BTW, what else would you expect the FBI to say?
" Damn it they found us out, well I suppose we need to come clean with everything, here goes nothing.....".

Come on, a little brain power goes a long way folks.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:51 PM
link   
WOW! What a wonderful presentation! I am going to have to go back and sift over this again and follow the links, but Star and Flag for now, for research and photos alone!


This entire UFO / Roswell / CoverUp / MJ12, etc, etc seems like an argument in semantics to me. It is fairly obvious that a cover up is going on, whether it be a real coverup of knowledge of extraterrestrials or a manufactured coverup with mystique and lore to mask military operations.

Either way, the government has not acted in our best interest in keeping technology and secrets locked away for decades from the people that it serves...........or maybe they have. Sometimes I wonder if I really want the knowledge that some of those men in your OP possess????



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by The Lord and Savior
Come on, a little brain power goes a long way folks.


It certainly does.

I'm going to ask you the same thing that I asked Jocko. Do you understand the contradiction you are making?



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:57 PM
link   

But who is it? It seems odd there is all this readily available information about the originators of the program but nothing available about the inheritors...


A valid question. In a letter, submitted by one source with some of the docs, the sender theorizes that due to the modern, paperless office, such information would next be found by a hacker, vs. archivists, and of course, how do you authenticate the contents of a computer file as genuine?

My personal feelings on this are more simplistic. The security technology of the times simply trusted on peoples' fear of the government and of the repercussions. Retinal scans, EMP wipers, and other measures weren't there, and it was an easier time for someone to slip a doc out of the office in their briefcase, or smuggle in a Minox and snap some pics.

Again, I'm well aware of the problems in authenticating some of the docs present.... Many UFOlogists believe the military recovered the remains of an alien craft in Roswell in '47. So, if we assume this premise to be true, somebody had to study it. So, the next question is who? Regardless of how you feel about the docs, these people existed, can be verified, and had close working relationships with one another, at the highest echelons of government. Together, they dealt with the world-changing technologies of the atom bomb, and countless other advances. Who better to make these studies, and keep them a secret?

Of course, discarding the premise of a UFO retrieval in Roswell allows for easy dismissal, but then you have to decide what then actually crashed there, and was secreted to top foreign technology bases? Mogul? (if you believe that, then they spent a lot of money flying off the shelf parts to these bases, to study aluminum foil and balsa wood...)



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
Nice presentation and I can respect all the diligence and hard work you put into this.

There are a few gentlemen in your list that have always stood out in my mind when it came to the Unidentified Flying Object phenomena. For example General Nathan Twining. For some reason his statements (although not really profound in today's world), has always been a motivational point for me to continue my researching into this phenomena where he said:

"This flying saucer situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious."

General Nathan Twining
Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff


Thanks again for all your hard work in putting this post together. Lets hope this can be an example to other ATS members instead of a simple YouTube link with a one line post that says; "I found this video and I think it's real, what do you think".. (bleh
)

Johnny

::::EDIT TO ADD:::::


Originally posted by SuperSlovak
The FBI has concluded the associated MJ 12 documents are "completely bogus". From what I understand anyway.


Come on now SuperSlovak... you've been here at ATS long enough to know that you should in the least have some links from the FBI to back up a statement like that...

[edit on 12/31/2009 by JohnnyAnonymous]


JohnnyAnonymous, yours is an empty compliment. A lot of hard work that produced nothing but a bad example of wasting time on useless research. This smacks of Roswell. It's too bad you are so easily impressed. I own the Brooklyn Bridge. Would you be interested in acquiring it for a nominal fee?



top topics
 
197
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join