We will not live in heaven, But on a Paradise Earth

1) God created the Earth so that humans could have the opportunity to try and create a "Heaven on Earth." Many civilizations have tried, and almost succeeded for a while, but ultimately fell short. It is very hard to do in the third dimension.

2) In an attempt to accelerate our spiritual progress, humanity allowed Duality (the idea that we are separate from God) and the Veil (a "curtain" that keeps us from seeing the things that exist in the higher dimensions) to become part of our reincarnation cycles on Earth. We have incarnated many, many times on Earth to see if we can progress spiritually enough to bring down Duality and the Veil while still living in an effort to fix problem #1.

3) The Earth will never be destroyed and will last forever. However, if you don't understand the concept that "nothing is actually destroyed, however, any thing can change its form" (as in liquid water to frozen water to steam) then you may be caught very surprised when the Earth does change form.

4) If you don't understand that all sentient life has a Soul, including the Earth, then you would not be able to understand that God can answer the prayers of all sentient life, not just us humans, and that planets--like Earth-- can ask to progress spiritually.

5) If you are a "Christian" who is ultimately looking forward to the "Rapture", but that "Rapture" is only for humans, then again, you may be caught surprised when the Earth "Raptures". I prefer to call the process "Ascension."

6) There is a future paradise on Earth. However, again, since nothing can be destroyed and lasts forever--but not necessarily in its current form (form comprising of vibration density) this could just as well mean that there is a future paradise on the "NEW" (as in, changing from one form to another) Earth.

7) God did not create the Earth so that we could just live on it for a short time, God created the Earth so that we could keep living on it for a short time -- again and again. Refer to 1) and 2). The "short life" is a by-product of the hazards of living in the third dimension combined with the fragility of physical bodies in the 3rd dimension. If you have not been able to Ascend or "Rapture" while embodied in 3D on Earth, then obviously you have not learned the spiritual lessons you needed to learn (as in their is no Duality, there is no Veil, we are all a part of the One God).

8) Why would God "destroy" the Earth? He won't. We have already agreed that the Earth can not be "destroyed". However, the Earth can Ascend (or if you must, "Rapture") and still not be "destroyed", BUT by the very definition of Ascension (to move from one vibration/density to a higher vibration/density) this poses a problem for any one who wishes to remain in the current 3D vibration cycle.

9) God, because he loves you unconditionally, WILL grant your wish to "float in the clouds" for all eternity if that is what you wish. I would find that boring, and believe there are many more opportunities to do things besides "float in the clouds and play the harp" for the next billion years... Even the bible implies "life after death"...

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
Well, then where is Jesus? I mean doesn't he ascend in to the kingdom of heaven? And furthermore, the Bible says that Jesus will reign on Earth for 1,000 years, and then we will be in Heaven for all of eternity.

Yes it talks of the thousand year reign,

As I watched in the night visions, I saw one like a human being coming with the clouds of heaven. And he came to the Ancient One and was presented before him.

To him was given dominion and glory and kingship, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not pass away, and his kingship is one that shall never be destroyed.
—Daniel 7:13-14 NRSV

The Ascension

The Transfiguration,
While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves, and told no one at that time what they had seen.

Acts
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."



[edit on 043131p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

It's called a parallel dimension. Are you familiar with astral travel?

Yes, I have been trying for days to remember parallel dimensions, TY,

Yes I have heard of astral travel.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Well this happens sometimes at night when you are sleeping, you can catch yourself and then the properties of the material world do not apply, you can fly or walk through walls or basically do anything you want.

I have noticed that in my experiences I have visited real places, that exist even on earth, or for instance, when I was taught how to fly I walked out through my back yard wich was normally a field of thorns and weeds became a beautiful garden with plants I have never seen before and mushrooms that grew over five feet tall. Kinda like Alice and Wonderland.

I believe it is like changing the shutter speed on a camera, only the camera is time.

Originally posted by l neXus l
So for all of you Christians out there who think when you die you go to heaven, sorry your wrong, heres why

1. god created this earth so that humans could enjoy living on it forever. He wanted the earth always to be inhabited by righteous, happy people. (Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18) The earth will never be destroyed; it will last forever.—Psalm 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4

2. The Bible clearly speaks of a future paradise on earth. For example, the prophet Isaiah described the earth and its inhabitants in this way: “They will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full.” (Isaiah 65:21, 22) The Jews, to whom God gave these promises, were certain that their land—indeed, the whole earth—would one day become a paradise for mankind’s everlasting benefit.

3.why would god create an earth just for us to live on for a short while? and then have it be destroyed and we all go float in the clouds?

I also believe that is the position that Biblical manuscripts support.

Heaven is important but it is not the end of the world.

The idea of heaven being the final destination for believers does not originate in Hebrew or early Christian thought.

Earth is where we now live and Heaven is 'God's space'...
...and heaven is wherever God is.

When the Shekinah presence dwelt in the Sanctuary...
...Heaven and Earth were together although separated by a litany of priests and sacrifices...
...when Jesus dwelt among us, Heaven and Earth were together...
...although there was hostility between sinful man a Him...
...when the Spirit comes to dwell in all who believe the Gospel...
...Heaven and Earth are together.

There is a time coming when the Earth will be remade...
...and God will dwell with us...
...so Heaven and Earth will in a sense be the same place.

The idea of people 'going to heaven' when they die may in a sense also be correct...
...that during the transition between physical death and final resurrection...
...they will be with God in 'God's space'...
...but this is only a transitional state...
...the final destination of humanity is to inhabit a renewed Earth in transformed physical bodies where God will dwell with His people...
...Heaven and Earth will be one as a New Creation.

Originally posted by l neXus l
and by the way im NOT a Jehovas Witness

GOOD CALL.

You're right, you don't have to be a Jehova's Witness to believe the Bible.

Good thread, neXus.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


No, Stormdancer,

You are not 'nuts' dear friend. I believe we are better off not belonging to a [church] of any denomination as religion is man made.

We become more enlightened and learn in the was of wisdom through the Holy Spirit. I believe as we read scriptures or any other material if there is wisdom there to learn, we will gain understanding of following "The Way".

If we show love and mercy and understanding to our fellow man we are showing the love of Christ and we are a shining light, a beacon of hope in the darkness.

I think you are a beacon of light shining brightly to help others find their way home.

Shalom,
Grandma

Here's the sad part: If we all simply tried to apply the ideas and principles that were laid out in the Sermon On The Mount, then we would all be living in a paradise already. The horrifying truth is that, everyday, 7 billion of us awake with a simple choice in front of us. We can either make living on earth this day Heaven or we can make it Hell. The choice is ours, individually and collectively. So far we always seem to choose to make it Hell. I don't know why. How great would it be if we all put our energies into making sure everybody had what they needed to thrive and be happy? How great would it be if there was no more money? If everything was free? How wonderful if the enormous resources of this world were available to everyone and not just the very affluent? Isn't this what Jesus supposedly spoke about? To my mind the Sermon On The Mount IS the Pearl Of Great Price, it is the only thing in the New Testament that is really of any value. Jesus describes a world where people share what they have so that none need do without. Now that's Heaven! And we can have Heaven any time we really want it. All we have to do is stop doing business as usual. All we have to do is start caring for others like we care for ourselves. All we have to do is unconditionally love our brothers and sisters. My dog is completely capable of such love. How is it that we are not?

Very true. Heaven is strictly reserved for God and his angels, not humans. The bible is quite clear about this.

As a christian, and not J.W. or LDS what the OP said is what I believe. I don't know where the whole going to heaven when you die thing came from, aside from its a nice way to comfort some one who has suffered a loss, but the dead are still asleep.
I used to believe in the whole heaven thing until I was old enough to read my bible, then I learned not to trust most pastors and check the bible on anything they claim to verify its validity.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by l neXus l

 

I believe this.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth.


[edit on 123131p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]

There will!

I sell them, have you read my book - How to be benny hinn and still influence people?

It's a jaw dropper.

reply to post by Grandma

If we show love and mercy and understanding to our fellow man we are showing the love of Christ and we are a shining light, a beacon of hope in the darkness.

To who exactly ?

reply to post by calstorm

I used to believe in the whole heaven thing until I was old enough to read my bible, then I learned not to trust most pastors and check the bible on anything they claim to verify its validity.

At which point you discovered that the bibles are so vague that nothing could be validated as the authors were no more trustworthy than the pastors ?

Is it not interesting that some people will take one mans word for something against another only because it suits their wishful thinking and not because of the presentation of credible evidence ?


Here's an example -

The pastor Trevor says that the only way of knowing the creator is through walking on the left . Somehow this does not sit right with a scripture that says nothing about walking on the left only that walking in the middle is the way to go.

One could disagree with pastor Trevor and claim he is wrong and that the scripture actually means don't walk on the right .

Nevertheless, as the author of the scripture is completely unknown and obviously dead for several centuries there is no knowing whose interpretation is correct or whether there is any truth in it to begin with.

As the scripture could have been written by pastor Trevors' great great great (and so on) grandfather who could have been as equally wrong or mad as Trevor it is impossible to validate claims let alone the exact meaning of the author without the author being present to clarify his position.

At the end of the day, one persons interpretation can be no more or less valid than any other when it comes to anonymous works riddled with ambiguity and contradictions.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
The size of the New Jerusalem, a perfect cube,

it is 1375 miles, it is also 1375 miles high.

So what is this that is to come down from the heavens?

A perfect cube.... it must be that the Borg are coming to assimilate us. It is as I thought all along, the God of the bible is an alien hive-mind being.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Very true. Heaven is strictly reserved for God and his angels, not humans. The bible is quite clear about this.

The bible says man has two bodies, one corruptable(flesh) and one incorruptable(spirit). Nothing corruptable will last forever. Only the incorruptable spirit will immortally remain.

I don't even care much about the bible, but I would like to see where it says what you claim.
Peace

Originally posted by calstorm
the dead are still asleep.
.

I can't say that I agree with that, but I certainly don't think we go to some "pie in the sky," either.

if there is a real paradise on earth where would it be and would it be physical spiritual or mental?

reply to post by Celysin


The only way it could work is for it to not be physical. Physical worlds come with duality, its cause and effect.

So even if this Earth and its beings transforms into a spiritual transformation...what about the rest of the Universe? Does it all just fall away...do we still have meteors zooming around that could cause catastrophes? Would we still have nature that must have cycles, which comes with duality since nature must have destruction as well as birth? What would be the purpose of the Universe if special Earth is going to be transformed into a spiritual sphere? What kind of life would we have on a perfect Earth? What would we do?

My questions are more for anyone that thinks we will have a physical heaven on Earth.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Leo, I have to disagree with you here.

I think it could very well be physical. However,only after the change in consciousness occurs, which is taking place now.

Look at the advances that are being made in science and medicine. Twenty years from now,life expectancy could top 100 years of age. I personally think that God works through science, but SHHHHHH!

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

World