The Trinity is not real, nor is it logical!!!!!!!!

reply to post by oliveoil


Well, oliveoil, I do not always agree with my offspring either. We have some very interesting discussions to say the least.




Peace,
Grandma

[LeoVirgo] is my offspring for those who are interested, she is my daughter.

children are spawns of satan =D

Originally posted by l neXus l
children are spawns of satan =D

What in Gods green earth are you talking about?

lol i was totally joking, children are wonderful, (depending on the children)

Originally posted by oliveoil
Yes he was calling Jesus God,

so, you ignored my post and are just assuming you are right.

and for him to use the word god and not mean God would be blasphemous big time.

so then god himself is a blashemer?

Now, just to go back a sec on your analysis of John 1:1
You are only partially correct. The truth is not all Bibles don't use the definite article, some do. However, this really doesn't matter if John used it or not Jesus is God and Heb 1:8 clears this up. Unless you can twist that too.p

i will mention this AGAIN.

god... is... not... a.... title.... exclusive... to.... JEHOVAH (god, the father)....

moses was called a god...
humans were called gods....
jesus is called a god...
satan is called a god...
even wooden and dung idols are god...

how many must it be spelled out to you. "God" is a title!

Also if you really want to get into it, I can prove why your "OLD IS BEST" theory on the Comma doesn't hold water thus wrapping up this thread as to the Trinity being 100 truth.

you willing to stake your life on that? your that desperate to hold onto a passage that was INVENTED after the 4th century?

you think the the trinity is "100 truth" because that is what you want and that is what you are emotionally invested in, not because the bible teaches it.

here, check this site out. its a list of reasons that jesus is not GOD written by muslims no less.

www.islamreligion.com...

i dare not just you, but anyone on this thread to answer every one of these points.

reply to post by miriam0566

god... is... not... a.... title.... exclusive... to.... JEHOVAH (god, the father)....

moses was called a god...
humans were called gods....
jesus is called a god...
satan is called a god...
even wooden and dung idols are god...

how many must it be spelled out to you. "God" is a title!

CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A POLYTHEISTIC RELIGION AND THERE IS BUT ONLY ONE TRUE GOD AND JESUS IS HIM!!!! Oh, I forgot you are not a Christian. And yes I back up 1 John 5:7,8.
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE MUSLIMS HAVE TO SAY AND JEHOVAH IS NOT A REAL WORD.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566

 

god... is... not... a.... title.... exclusive... to.... JEHOVAH (god, the father)....

moses was called a god...
humans were called gods....
jesus is called a god...
satan is called a god...
even wooden and dung idols are god...

how many must it be spelled out to you. "God" is a title!

CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A POLYTHEISTIC RELIGION AND THERE IS BUT ONLY ONE TRUE GOD AND JESUS IS HIM!!!! Oh, I forgot you are not a Christian. And yes I back up 1 John 5:7,8.
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE MUSLIMS HAVE TO SAY AND JEHOVAH IS NOT A REAL WORD.

so you admit that you ignore the bible....

reply to post by miriam0566


Look Im not ignoring anything. let me put it in simple terms for you.
If you took away Jesus' name and the fathers name out of the Bible you would not be able to tell who is who. They both share the same attributes. They are both the same true one and only God. I can prove this. On the other hand you can not disprove me. I think your JW training has brainwashed you. You are too critical in your studies and are leaning more to one side and are blinded by simple truths.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Look Im not ignoring anything. let me put it in simple terms for you.
If you took away Jesus' name and the fathers name out of the Bible you would not be able to tell who is who. They both share the same attributes. They are both the same true one and only God. I can prove this. On the other hand you can not disprove me. I think your JW training has brainwashed you. You are too critical in your studies and are leaning more to one side and are blinded by simple truths.

The Word is something that they both have in common but try to see anyplace in the New Testament that talks about the Word, other than in John 1:1.
I think the whole problem is the lack of ability for people to understand what the Word is.
The Jews in the time of Jesus equated the Word with a being who stood in front of (or before) God and did things for God, and this being was going to come down to earth and become their Messiah to lead a great war that would re-establish Israel as it was at the height of its glory.
John is saying, ok, Jews, here's your Word, right here, it is the power to bring a spiritual enlightenment to us, just as it was present at creation to lighten the chaos that was earth before the word was spoken.
It is not saying that the Word is Jesus, but the word was fully working with this particular person who was God's chosen one to be the Son of Man spoken of by Daniel. Then will the Prince stand up. Jesus is Lord.


[edit on 7-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Look Im not ignoring anything. let me put it in simple terms for you.
If you took away Jesus' name and the fathers name out of the Bible you would not be able to tell who is who. They both share the same attributes. They are both the same true one and only God. I can prove this. On the other hand you can not disprove me. I think your JW training has brainwashed you. You are too critical in your studies and are leaning more to one side and are blinded by simple truths.

The Word is something that they both have in common but try to see anyplace in the New Testament that talks about the Word, other than in John 1:1.
I think the whole problem is the lack of ability for people to understand what the Word is.
The Jews in the time of Jesus equated the Word with a being who stood in from of God and did things for God, and this being was going to come down to earth and become their Messiah to lead a great war that would re-establish Israel as it was at the height of its glory.
John is saying, ok, Jews, here's your Word, right here, it is the power to bring a spiritual enlightenment to us, just as it was present at creation to lighten the chaos that was earth before the word was spoken.
It is not saying that the Word is Jesus, but the word was fully working with this particular person who was God's chosen one to be the Son of Man spoken of by Daniel. Then will the Prince stand up. Jesus is Lord.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

are you the bible scholar?

reply to post by oliveoil

JEHOVAH IS NOT A REAL WORD.

Yes it is, look it up in any dictionary, this is how one dictionary defines it.

Je⋅ho⋅vah
  /dʒɪˈhoʊvə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ji-hoh-vuh]
–noun
1. a name of God in the Old Testament, a rendering of the ineffable name, JHVH, in the Hebrew Scriptures.
2. (in modern Christian use) God.

The correct and less emotional knee jerk response would be you don't believe Jehovah is the correct pronunciation for God's name.

oliveoil I am going to make a point of correcting your statements that are emotionally driven OPINIONS and not factual.

Jehova is the actual name of GOD

psalm 83:18

Olive in all my post you ignore God scripture that I showed. You Ignore wat God said himself.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by oliveoil

 

JEHOVAH IS NOT A REAL WORD.

Yes it is, look it up in any dictionary, this is how one dictionary defines it.

Je⋅ho⋅vah
  /dʒɪˈhoʊvə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ji-hoh-vuh]
–noun
1. a name of God in the Old Testament, a rendering of the ineffable name, JHVH, in the Hebrew Scriptures.
2. (in modern Christian use) God.

The correct and less emotional knee jerk response would be you don't believe Jehovah is the correct pronunciation for God's name.

oliveoil I am going to make a point of correcting your statements that are emotionally driven OPINIONS and not factual.

How many times do I have to point out to you that Gods name is a VERB not a noun.
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

The Hebrew root TO BE.= YHWH= YAHWEH not (Jehovah noun)
Go ahead and get your little chart.

Originally posted by slymattb
Olive in all my post you ignore God scripture that I showed. You Ignore wat God said himself.

This is a contradiction. which can only be resolved if one applies the trinity theory. I haven't ignored it I'm simply pointing this out.

Originally posted by l neXus l
Jehova is the actual name of GOD

psalm 83:18

This was a miss translation that appeared in the KJV. Gods name is Yahweh. YHWH

Originally posted by oliveoil
Look Im not ignoring anything.

yes you are..

step 1. you say: "Yes he was calling Jesus God, and for him to use the word god and not mean God would be blasphemous big time."

step 2. I quote the bible.

moses was called a god...
exodus 7:[1] And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (GOD, the father himself is saying this)

humans were called gods....
psalms 82:[6] I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.(GOD, the father himself is saying this)

jesus is called a god...
(isa 9:6; John 1:1; heb 1:8)

satan is called a god...
2 cor 4:[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

even wooden and dung idols are god...
(exodus 20:23; exodus 34:17; deut 4:28; etc etc)

these scriptures dont show another interpretation, they show that you are wrong. in black and white, from the bible, with god himself speaking in some of these verses, you are wrong.

step 3. and your response.

"CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A POLYTHEISTIC RELIGION AND THERE IS BUT ONLY ONE TRUE GOD AND JESUS IS HIM!!!!"

not only does it not at all address what im saying, but its backed by nothing.

nothing.... no scriptures, no logic, nothing....

this has been this way pretty much the entire debate

you say things like

"if you really want to get into it, I can prove why your "OLD IS BEST" theory on the Comma doesn't hold water thus wrapping up this thread as to the Trinity being 100 truth."

and

"He declared he was God though his miracles although Some of the things he said and the things that were said of him certainly alluded to the fact he was indeed God,"

and

"God is infinite we are finite and Jesus was both."

and then nothing. no scriptures, no logic, no evidence. just 100% conclusions that you came to based on something you want to believe.

even in the rest of this post you continue.....

let me put it in simple terms for you.
If you took away Jesus' name and the fathers name out of the Bible you would not be able to tell who is who. They both share the same attributes. They are both the same true one and only God. I can prove this. On the other hand you can not disprove me.

if you can prove this then at some point you should start because im still waiting. up until now, all you have offered is your opinion.

opinion means nothing. if god revealed himself through scriptures, then scripture MUST be used. the reason there are so many version of christianity is exactly because the scriptures arent used. they are ignored when convenient.

I think your JW training has brainwashed you. You are too critical in your studies and are leaning more to one side and are blinded by simple truths.

brainwash - 1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

you cant even see when something is pointed out for you in black and white, and IM the one who's brainwashed?

i want to be clear about this, i dont have any delusions that you will see reason anytime soon, if ever.

in fact it wouldnt surprise me if jesus parting the clouds, descending from heaven, sitting down and talking to you about his true nature wasnt even able to convince you. afterall, if you cant accept what jesus himself said in b&w, then it wouldnt make much of a difference in person.

this is what jesus says about him and his father... (the follow is what we call "proof")

Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.” Jesus is openly acknowledging that he is not GOD. otherwise he would not have made this statement.

John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.” you CANNOT be greater than yourself. If Jesus was GOD, then they would be equal, no matter what form he is in.

John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”

Matthew 20:28: "Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve." Just who is Jesus serving? How can you possibly say that GOD serves anyone?

apostles didnt think jesus was GOD

Acts 3:13 “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.”

Acts 3:26 “God raised up his servant...”

Acts 4:27 “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.”

Acts 4:30 “…of Your holy servant Jesus.”

1 Corinthians 11:3 “Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

1 Corinthians 15:28 “When he has done this, then the son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”

GOD called Jesus his servant

Matt. 12:18 “Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.”

jesus acknowledged his servitude

John 5:19 “The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.”

John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing.”

Luke 22:42: “not my will but Yours be done.”

John 5:30 “I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”

John 7:16 “So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me.”

John 8:28 “As my Father hath taught me, I speak these things,”

John 12:49 “The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment.”

John 15:10 “I have kept my Father’s commandments.”

jesus had limitations.

Mark 5:30 “At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’” Wouldnt GOD already know?

Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him [in the garden of Gethsemane].” Why would GOD need to be strengthened?

Luke 2:52: “And Jesus increased in wisdom.” I thought GOD was infinite in wisdom? (psalm 147:5)

Heb. 5:8 “Although he was a son, he learned obedience…” 1, why would GOD need to learn obedience? and 2> Why would GOD need to learn?

Mark 13:32 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.” so GOD doesnt know something, but he does?

Jesus considered his father a separate witness which would be impossible if they are the same person

John 8:17 and 18: “I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.”

John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”

GOD cannot be tempted, Jesus can

Heb. 4:15 “tempted in every way—just as we are”

James 1:13 “for God cannot be tempted by evil”

Jesus considered his own father to be his "God"

Matt. 27:46 “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?”

John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.”

Rev. 3:12 “… the temple of my God… the name of my God… the city of my God… comes down out of heaven from my God.”

at this point, if you cant account for these scriptures, and fit them into the trinity doctrine, then there is nothing left to say. the context is against the trinity overwhelmingly. and unless you or anyone can show me some sort of proof that im wrong, im afraid there isnt much more to say.

reply to post by oliveoil


God's name means "He Causes To Become" a very appropriate name for the Creator of the entire universe. "I am" is not the defination of his name.
www.behindthename.com...

Any name can be either Verb or Noun

dictionary.reference.com...

The pronunciation has changed with the English Language

The first English translators of יְהֹוָה‎, believed they had the correct vowel points, and translated it as it was written:
"Jehova" in 1270 A.D. Latin.
"Iehouah" in 1530 A.D. English.
"Iehovah" in 1611 A.D. English.
"Jehovah" in 1769 A.D. English.

It's obvious, however you say it, the God behind this "Name" is not Jesus Christ.

Jesus has a different name in Hebrew too "YESHUA".

So it would be good to show some consistency, so either you use Yeshua and Yahweh(Hebrew) or Jesus and Jehovah(English)

Jesus is also known by his angelic name (Revelation 12:7)

MICHAEL Gender: Masculine From the Hebrew name מִיכָאֵל (Mikha'el) meaning "who is like God?".

Notice the meaning he is like God not God himself.

Alright, kids!!! Don't make me pull this thread over!!!

Seriously, you all are doing a GREAT job of showing the rest of us what a ridiculous religion you have there! A far better job than I could ever hope to do!!! You all can't even discuss this topic amongst yourselves without it turning into a Scriptural Battle Royal!!! And you wonder why the rest of us see your book as a load of horse hockey????

Seriously, as you all have now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, the Bible, much like the Quran, can be interpreted to say pretty much anything you want it to, or support any position you want it to. The real problem is that you all are so sure about your own positions, that you fail to see what I'm talking about. Take the blinders off and look at it with a truly open mind... Something I have yet to see any of you really do yet...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Yea, I have to agree with JaxonRoberts here. This post gives religionists a bad rep.

Just because the Christian Trinity is spoken as "the three persons in one Godhead", doesn't mean that they are people like you and me. Do not read too much in this personification of God. It's not literal and can confuse if read to the dead letter.

The Christian Trinity represents the basic elements of life and is similar to the Hindu Trimurty, which is "a concept in Hinduism in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahmā the creator, Vishnu the maintainer or preserver, and Śhiva the destroyer or transformer".

We, as people, are created in the "image" of God and therefore find that we are born, we live, and we die. Creation, preservation and destruction are the three most fundamental aspects of the cycle of life and death and life.

It takes a father (God) and a mother (matter) to create the son (or daughter). These are the basic blocks of life. You have positive, negative and everything in between. You have light, darkness and twilight. You have the Self, the not self and the awareness of duality. The trinity of forces in nature are intimately tied up with the polar opposites.

The three are in One and the One is made up three. You have creation in form (spirit, mind and body), and the eternal in the formless (your true Self that has no beginning or end), and the self-awareness (your emerging soul) that eventually begins to realize the difference between the two. Only then do we become enlightened. Ponder on this.