Also : wind needs a large prop , and the output needs to be controled with pricey electronics . If you are capable of doing the installation yourself (the panels can literaly be "spliced" in at the box) then you can save up to half of the total cost . The major pieces of equipment are the inverter that changes the DC current from the panel to AC , And an interconnect shutoff wich prohibits you from putting power into the grid when it goes down . You cant' put juice into a line that the utility might be working on , so when the grid goes down you either are independent when the sun is shining , or living off your own stored battery pack . My prof had access to tons of batteries at auto school , so his reserve pack was cheap . If you can do without it that will save tons .(and batteries create hydrogen when they are charging , very explosive , and they need venting with no electric sparks created when the fans go on , kinda tricky but he pulled it off .)It can work under the right circumstances , and pay off quick . You just need to do as much labor as possible yourself.

Too far off balance, too many homeless, hungry, scared, depressed, cheated, resentful, etc. and it will be 10's or 100's of millions of people without any future in site accept Mindless Revenge against everything.

Almost there IMO .

Originally posted by oddtodd
Almost there IMO .

Yah, No Sh*t!! It usually hits me somewhere in the middle of, Depressing, Angry, Paranoia and Sympathetic. Usually the main factor in deciding where in that range it falls depends upon how close I am in being one of those who are 'Homeless, Hungry, etc., etc., and left with only Revenge as an outlet.'

It makes me think about those stories or documentary films that show what it's like when there are millions of Rats on a ship that is burning at sea. Everything is just total Carnage, feeding off each other killing for the last inch of floating wood and so forth. Kinda grim to say the least.

Even worse is the realization that the Human Race does similar things to each other even without the Ship Burning or Shortage of Food etc. So with that being true, the Vile, Horrible Acts that would occur with Humans in place of the Rats, will no doubt make the Rats look very Civilized. I think that is the most depressing part of all IMO!!

Location, location, location! Choose the ideal location before you go off grid!

I set myself up for the worst! Pumping water from a well is a losing proposition. So is depending on firewood for comfort.

I buried several cargo containers and a 6000 gallon water tank (8 foot under) that are impervious to the elements, tied em all together with a common utility room and walaw! No need for any labor, splitting wood or pumping/hauling water in worse case scenarios.

I currently stay above ground with the ability to duck out in a flash and not have to peek out for a year if I had to.

I say again, do not waist your money on all that collage boy stuff! What will you do with it when the Earth's rotation changes and we go to 8 hour days, 8 hour nights!

"Revelation, chapter 8 -12: And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

All we need is common cents and logic. There is a storm coming! Why spend your money on stuff that's not going to do you any good after the storm? Think about it for a minute, what are all the governments doing. Going underground, hello!?!?

I did not waist any money on water wells, panels, generators, batteries, etc., etc., simply because I didn't have much money. I found myself a real cheep piece of dirt way off the beaten path and went to work. I spent my money on food, and facilities to store it, and there is nothing that compares to natural mountain spring water and after living like this I could never go back to the rat race!!

neverfear

Neverfear,

Wow, you are really off the grid!
You have my respect, to say the least.
I've lived as a minimalist for short periods,
and I've enjoyed it thoroughly.
We called it "camping"!

MY father taught me a lot about living off the land,
fending for yourself, etc..I'm pretty familiar with roughing it.

Sometimes I wish I could go
back to simplicity.

I would, however incur very large expenses, mostly in the form
of alimony payments


oddtodd,

You professor's setup is the kind of idea I was thinking of.
I hadn't even thought about "overproducing" and losing power credits.
That's important to know. Kinda makes you want to leave the lights on the
whole month of December, just to burn up the credits!

In the near future, the successful vendor of this kind of equipment
will make it More consumer installable.
More modular. A smart Homebuyer will look for houses
that make a Solar/Wind conversion easier. IMO

Hi Spacedoubt!

FYI neverfear is a friend of mine, and I sent him a link to THIS very thread in hopes of enticing him on to our ATS site........I can see that my plan has worked....I bet he has ALOT of interesting things he can tell us all about off grid living.

I lived off grid for 9 months. Just me and my little son in a camp trailor in the mountainsof Utah. I had difficulties all around with the lifestyle..hauling water...cooking on fire..the outhouse (DID I mention THE OUTHOUSE?) showering outside....but my son was SO PROUD of me...saying "you should just SEE my mom chop wood!" He thought we were genuine pioneer types..........he was happy about the entire experiance.
It was NOT an experiance of me TRYING to go off grid or anything brave like that.....it was me and my son having no other place to live. This was a HOMELESS situation.....and all I had in the world was 2 acres of mountain land and an old layton camp trailor. SO... it became our home. We made the best of that life that we could......during this period it was the best my son has EVER done in school.........he LIKED it.
We ended up coming back into NORMAL society after I saved enough money to get us back under more common shelter.....an apartment. I am now in a 'big' City again.. such is my life as a single mother nowdays.

I hope someday I can again reside in a smaller comunity.

TRG,

Hi yourself!

Thanks for sending your friend here.
It's livened up the thread.
It's also nice to see that you know how to "make lemonade".
Some people would have let pessimism rule in that scenario.

You probably have a lot of sunny days where you are now.
We have 233 clear days per year here.
All those sunbeams, going to waste in my backyard!

To simply hope, wish for think about something happening may be futile. Although work is never complete I believe my work here is done and I find myself hoping, wishing and thinking I could find a like minded lady to join me here to give me something/work to do. I guess that could be called a frick'en paradox eh! I dreamt most of my life to do what I am currently doing and being away from all the crazy delusional city folk running the rat race only to find myself bored to death and so lonely I can't stand it. I am content and happy but come on, Man was not meant to be alone!

As far as stories go I must have at least one a day stored up over the last 10 years. The fact of the matter is ya really gotta want this way of life or you will soon be tuck'en tail and head'en back to the perversions of city life. Life here is real and it's fun, it's just not real fun when your all alone.

Okay, I won't bore ya anymore. Nice to meet everyone and thankx for having me here, and thank you for the warm welcome!

neverfear

oddtodd,

You professor's setup is the kind of idea I was thinking of.
I hadn't even thought about "overproducing" and losing power credits.
That's important to know. Kinda makes you want to leave the lights on the
whole month of December, just to burn up the credits!

In the near future, the successful vendor of this kind of equipment
will make it More consumer installable.
More modular. A smart Homebuyer will look for houses
that make a Solar/Wind conversion easier. IMO

Unfortunately you cannot distribute it to your neighbors or wire the exess to anywhere except your own home without being a Public Utility Company , so it makes no financial sence to overproduce .

I applied to a solar installation company , and was walked thru the installation process . It only takes 2-3 days . The assembly and mounting of the panels is very simple . The company had teams of three . 2 average carpenters , and one person skilled enough to make the connection to the power lines (not that difficult , just dangerous if you don't know what you are doing) . They charge 5000 for installation labor . but only pay $14 bucks an hour . I passed on that job .

A couple friends who could help out over a weekend could save thousands !!! And you could use the money u save to hire an electrition for an hour to connect the 2 wires to your panel !

Also , the price of panels will come down and efficiency will go up as manufacturing techniques and new material use is refined IMO .

Do your home work and shop smart !

Chek out that link I posted above to the new materials you were asking about if you haven't already .

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Oil, natural gas, nuclear power.
Is anyone trying to give it up? At least partially?

I'd be interested to know if any of the members here, have any stories,
or advice, regarding the installation of Solar or Wind power. Particularly,
if it's running a single family dwelling.

I've considered it, as I live in a Sunny AND windy place.
There are some tax-breaks as incentives, but I don't really see it catching-on.

I think it's a good time to talk about this again.

It would be good if everyone used it on their homes. But a generator produsing electricity running on hydrogen would be better....

AD5673,

I like that plan as well.
Burning Hydrogen. Producing Water as an exhaust.

Usable water, for also running a household.

I heard that theres quite a bit of hydrogen in the Universe too!

Do you have any links, to point us where this technology might be headed?

space

OddTodd,

Great information, thanks.

You know, I was thinking that working for 14 bucks an hour,
for about a month at that job, learning the technique, then, you know....quit..

You would have a skill that might allow you make your own install team.
Then you, or whomever, could charge whatever the market would bear.
hmmm..

Originally posted by spacedoubt
OddTodd,

Great information, thanks.

You know, I was thinking that working for 14 bucks an hour,
for about a month at that job, learning the technique, then, you know....quit..

You would have a skill that might allow you make your own install team.
Then you, or whomever, could charge whatever the market would bear.
hmmm..

Thought about it , I know I am capable , one job could teach me to connect the wires .... Company claimed to be a bit on the altruistic side , and seemed to be using peoples desire to be self sufficient and eco-friendly to charge extreme amounts of $$$ . Like I said , shop smart , and maybe start having your carpenter , or roofing friends over a bit more often for dinner just in case....

That could really work, those are some good ideas

[edit on 2004-7-2 by Teknik]

The main problem with solar cells is their 2 dimensional nature, creating a linear waste of space when trying to capture a lot of solar energy. Plus the fact their useless at night or in low light conditions. Silicon panels have a pre-disposition for light in the red spectrum and ignores the rest of the suns rays and earns it a low efficiency reputation based on the size of the panels needed to get decent power.

So, what to do?

First, switch to small cells and form small boxes with them, like those used on solar calculators. Face the cells inward, you won't need the sun. Instead, you will need a bright red LED lamp to power your box. You will need a lamp with a brightness like those found in an optical mouse. It's bright enough to get the calculator cells active. Now, let's say your little box has 6 sides, it maybe less, bouncing around the shine of the lamp 360 degrees is a little difficult, but 1 to 2 of your panels will keep the LED running and the remaining panels are your free power to do with as you please. Now, connect this box in parallel or in series with other boxes and you can leverage up the power to do more meaningful work.

The surface area required by the box is smaller than what is needed by a traditional system to produce the same power, battery backup isn't really necessary, and the sun....who needs it.

Too bad I can't tell you about my poor man's linear accelerator....

Sometimes, thinking outside of the box isn't enough, sometimes you just need to leave the building altogether.

So if the sun emitted the same colour as the LED and only that colour, how efficient would those solar cells be. 1W of red = how many watts of power out?

Capt. Proton,

An LED can produce enough power on a solar cell to light itsself
AND extra power to be used eslsewhere?
What is the energy gain on such a machine?

It sounds like one of the Laws of Thermodynamics is being broken somehow?

What about the resistance in your circuits?
There is heat being produced there.
Thats a power loss.

I'm having trouble with this one..
Links? other info?