POLICE ARE TERRORISTS!!! Oh boy, Oh boy...Please Enjoy!!!

so that was an interesting documentary. i think with the first situation, if you admit to being on the run for murder and you're claiming that you have a gun and that you're more than willing to use it, then sorry, but you arent getting a negotiation. if i was the cop i would definitely not negotiate with that guy. you either drop the gun and come talk willingly, or you're taken out with force. if you dont want to spend your life in jail...then you dont commit murder in the first place. or get involved in any type of crime for that matter.

i was so crushed to see what happened to the dog though. i really do wish that animals werent used in situations like this, they didnt ask to be put in a life threatening situation. the cops consciously chose this as they're profession so i think that they should be the ones approaching the suspect. dogs should only be used in situations where the risk of them getting hurt is very low.

i will say that i felt that the bus incident was out of line. police officers are disliked by many people and im sure lots of people flip them off. stopping a bus and physically fighting with and removing a person from the bus for giving a cop the finger is ridiculous. in my opinion, thats called a "power trip". if you're sensitive to peoples opinions of your career, then dont chose a career where many people are going to hate you simply for what you do.

i think that with the incident with the kid hopping the fence and getting shot was probably not necessary either. but the way the reporter guy handled it was very unprofessional. i realize that they're not an official news broadcast or anything, but its hard to take people seriously when they're not behaving professionally. they want their news taken seriously obviously, so its important to have the person in front of the camera act in a mature professional manner.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Wow! While watching this documentary, I was disgusted. Disgusted with the disrespect, the nasty language, the incredible lies, all by this "hood news". Never was it mentioned by this "hood news", what the past records of these "victims" were, their history, if their wanted or not........I heard lies, lies, lies..... My opinion is that these people are not only disolusional, but they also think that they should get away with whatever crimes they commit. Hey, I do not think that every cop is a good cop, I know as do most of you, that there are bad cops. But these people are ridiculous. Thanks for the video rcwj. very interesting. s+f
Edited to add that I am sorry my avatar is so long! I cannot figure out how to fix it properly.

[edit on 12/30/09 by j.r.c.b.]

Originally posted by Flakey
Tasers are supposed to be used as a less lethal response to a direct threat.

The person in that video was restrained in a chock slam and pinned against his car. I did not see any signs of resistance or anything that could be considered as threatening. Pinned against that car being chocked the other officer tasered him. Can you see just cause for the deployment of the officers weapon?

Just yes or no based on what the video evidence provides.

Thats not the case per policy in many departments. Your asking me as an officer to tell you what i think. I DO agree hands on would of worked just fine in this case, but if THAT department SOP states that they use a taser BEFORE they go hands on then they are doing what they must per their policy. It can't be just a yes or no answer when there are SO many different sets of rules, SOP's, etc...

Would I have tased him, NO...thats about the best yes/no answer I can give you. I understand YOUR thought process on how/when a taser should be deployed, but again its based on more than just what WE THINK!

Watched the first segment. What a travesty, poor doggy. And the guy that got shot, well how about not telling the cops you have a gun with 13 bullets in it and playing stupid games. He had plenty of chances to end that peacefully. No sympathy from me whatsoever.

I'm sure they are some very bad cops. They are people just like everybody else. But not all cops are "terrorists" or out to get you. On the other side, there are ego driven power hungry d-bags with badges, too.

So it's best to judge a cop like you would anybody else. INDIVIDUALLY.

Besides, 90 percent of the time they are just REVENUE ENFORCEMENT AGENTS. But let's leave that one for another thread.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Would I "report" a guy who cussed out someone even if I thought it was a bit over the top...no...but I would say something to him and use my experiance to bring him up to speed.


Your words. again, I'm sure there are some good cops out there, and I have no reason to doubt you aren't. But, I have been punched 3 times while in cuffs, had a gun drawn on me several times during traffic stops, had personal property destroyed, had a vehicle accident not followed up on just to name a few things I've experienced, so I do have a very jaded view of most officers in general. I have met a few decent ones, but by and large, I'd have to say not too many positive experiences.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Your view point is a great illustration of the problem. An unarmed compliant man was Chock Slammed and then tasered.

Let that digest.

A complaint suspect, hand in the open not in pockets, UNARMED , was chock slammed and then Tasered.

It is a clear cut black and white case of police brutality. That you can not just come out and call it for what it is speaks to you character as an officer. Your job as a LEO is not just about how you conduct yourself but also how you allow your fellow officers conduct themselves. If you would cover for just one then you become no better than those you would arrest.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

Would I "report" a guy who cussed out someone even if I thought it was a bit over the top...no...but I would say something to him and use my experiance to bring him up to speed.


Your words. again, I'm sure there are some good cops out there, and I have no reason to doubt you aren't. But, I have been punched 3 times while in cuffs, had a gun drawn on me several times during traffic stops, had personal property destroyed, had a vehicle accident not followed up on just to name a few things I've experienced, so I do have a very jaded view of most officers in general. I have met a few decent ones, but by and large, I'd have to say not too many positive experiences.

I am still a bit confused. What I said was if I witness a fellow officer strike a suspect while in cuffs, or beat a guy who is already down and not resisting, YES I will step in, stop him, say something and make him answer for his/her actions. Then I said if it were something like a fellow officer cussing at someone (i.e. a suspect or someone being obstructive) then no I wouldn't report him, but I would pull him to the side 1 on 1 to explain some stuff to him/her.

As for your personal experiance, apparently you live in a horrible area..lol. To have that much bad luck just leaves me speechless.

Originally posted by Flakey
Your view point is a great illustration of the problem. An unarmed compliant man was Chock Slammed and then tasered.

Let that digest.

A complaint suspect, hand in the open not in pockets, UNARMED , was chock slammed and then Tasered.

It is a clear cut black and white case of police brutality. That you can not just come out and call it for what it is speaks to you character as an officer. Your job as a LEO is not just about how you conduct yourself but also how you allow your fellow officers conduct themselves. If you would cover for just one then you become no better than those you would arrest.

Your not getting it. I already disagreed with the throat grab, but depending on policy I cannot disagree with the taser use. Bottom line is, once the first officer grabbed the driver, the other officer should of grabbed the other arm and they both put him on the hood of their patrol car. Would MY department have allowed that, NO, and I wouldn't have done it either. So just to be clear, I DIDN'T SEE A REASON FOR THEM TO USE THE TASER.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Sent you a u2u explaing some of it. My point was, an action that would result in the arrest of a citizen, ie cussing one out, would only result in a talking to to the officer involved for the same actions.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Alright then. I guess your one of the few good ones left. Just do us all a favor and never put on the ninja turtle suit and run crowd control. Should that day come call in sick and stay good.

I guess if I'm ever on the run for murder, and I announce my death wish while claiming that a light blue size 7 high heel is mag full 9, I made my own mess now didnt I?
I would like to know the round count post incident, I ended up somewhere around 30.
My only complaint is poor command. Letting an officer run into fire field with no discharge orders set was just mindless.
WWJWD?

Originally posted by adifferentbreed

Sent you a u2u explaing some of it. My point was, an action that would result in the arrest of a citizen, ie cussing one out, would only result in a talking to to the officer involved for the same actions.

I responded. I never arrested for a verbal altercation. I don't care about name calling. I have been called pig, nazi, etc...no biggy. But in MY experiance those who call ME names will be the first to file a complaint when I tell them to kiss my ---! Then all of a sudden its, "hey, you can't say that to me, your a cop, im filing a complaint"...lol

Originally posted by Flakey

Alright then. I guess your one of the few good ones left. Just do us all a favor and never put on the ninja turtle suit and run crowd control. Should that day come call in sick and stay good.

Thanks, I like to think I am good at my job and do whats right. There are times people leave me no choice and then want to blame me for their misfortunes. As for the riot gear stuff...depends on the circumstance. Will I put it on for marshal law, etc...no, will I put it on because Georgia wins the national title one year and drunk retarded people take to the streets to destroy property and act a fool...yeah I will...

[edit on 12/30/2009 by rcwj1975]

reply to post by rcwj1975


Yeah, I agree completely with you about the k-9 unit. I hated to see its tail wag for the last time. Those dogs are so well trained they will attack whatever they are ordered to.

I must admit I was shocked to see him shot after he threw the gun down, if only a split second after. I know the scene was very tense for the officers and when his hand came out it was almost like high noon at the ok coral. I am not saying the officers are at fault, I just wish that it could have ended without death for anything, man or animal.

The S.R.O. at the school I worked at is a great guy. He is a sheriff's deputy and has a great sense of humor. One day, joking with him, I asked if he had flat feet or something. He knew I was joking, but he told me he was forced to shoot a man after a traffic stop because he found that the man was mental and holding his wife in the vehicle with a gun or knife or something. He said he was trained to basically empty his clip when it came down to it and he did. They took him off of active duty(?) and once the investigation was complete he realized he couldn't ever be put in that situation again.

Is it true that most law enforcement agencies will take the officers off of active duty(?) when involved in a shooting?

Aren't k-9 units considered officers?

reply to post by rcwj1975


I provided a thread recently

Give The Police Some Credit

yet i can see the abuses by police as well. It seems from your post you want to make the police out as people who are dealing with horrible circumstances and so they can be excused for everything. Well no sorry it doesn't work that way. I respect the majority of the police of course they are decent people (note i am talking froma UK perspective).

Still what you may not realise is that people, even good people within a system can do bad things. Just look up the stanford prison experiment, it is all that needs to be said.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by OpTiMuS_PrImE

 

Was it NOT necessary? When you admit your on the run for murder, you won't show your right hand, you claim to have a gun and refuse orders to end the standoff? At some point your dumb --- needs to know how far to take it. And this clown took it toooooooo far.

They only thing I didn't like was that the commander on scene didn't dictate who should fire IF they planned on using less lethal rounds. And I hate what happened to the K9 dog!

I would rather have the military on the street handling law enforcement duties than local police. Thats right! I said it. I am tired of pissing tax dollars away on police depts. we pay billions in tax dollars on police depts. We have a military who is more professional that local law enforcement. I trust my family and others lives to the military NOT THE POLICE. The way the economy is there is no need to have local and state law enforcement officers. We could save billions in tax dollars by using military to police local areas. All these over bloated police depts who use heavy police cruisers that waste gas we do not need them anymore. Think of all the pension money that would be saved by using military. Shocker!!!! I would rather have the tax money police waste used to help the real hero's of our society the fire fighters who volunteer and paramedics who acually save lives and add real substance to society.

The only racists I saw were the "hood". Now, that's not to say that some of the others weren't racists but to be honest, the black people were so vocal about it it was disgusting.

As far as the police go, if they hate the police so bad how about building a fence around the whole place, pull all the police out and let em go to it. I wonder how they'd like anarchy. I'm sure they'd call that racist too though.

The majority of police may have peoples' best interests at heart, but every time we see someone already cuffed on the ground being shot and killed, things like that, it really sends a bad message and people remember that. And that WAS in the news a while back, complete with cell phone video. The cop responsible said he meant to pull out his taser but made a mistake, and I'm not sure whether he was even fired or not.

Just like with Muslims/Middle Eastern people, and a lot of other groups, a lot of people are going to see the worst cases and extrapolate it to the whole group of people. You can thank the mainstream media for that. It's no different than it was in Nazi Germany in that regard, the media is controlled by the corporations which in turn lobby the hell out of the government to get their way. Huge conflict of interest for everyone but the corporations.

I can't watch YouTube videos here at the moment but of course a murderer is screwed when he's surrounded by police, and says he's armed.

Someone said there is a cop that stops a bus because someone on it flicks him off. Again, I can't watch the video but yeah that definitely sounds like a power trip.


The videos that piss me off the most are the ones that make it to the ATS news forum. The last one was an off-duty detective in DC throwing his gun around at a snowball fight, but that's nothing compared to some of the videos I've seen from LA cops, which is I think where the subway shooting happened with the guy already cuffed on the ground.


I think it has a lot to do with the areas this stuff happens. What happens in LA or NY or Houston isn't going to be anything like what happens in quiet rural towns.


Even then though there are a lot of cops that don't have the right attitude to be policeman. I once blew a tire and before I could even pull over into the nearest parking lot a county cop was following me right on my bumper. I stopped my car and looked over at him, and as soon as we made eye contact he sped off. Now I know it isn't a cop's job to help me change my tire, but he didn't even so much as nod at me. The impression I got was that if he couldn't write me a ticket, he didn't want anything to do with me. And I live in a small town and I know there isn't a damned lot going on anyway, they're always just hanging out at gas stations and talking it seems like. All I'm saying is didn't policeman used to be public servants in general, instead of just "law enforcement"? When did that change?

Originally posted by Dookie Master

Is it true that most law enforcement agencies will take the officers off of active duty(?) when involved in a shooting?

Aren't k-9 units considered officers?

Yes you are put on administrative leave until your department and an outside agency investigates the shooting. Then if cleared you may return to active status. Some guys do not come back because the experiance is a VERY tough one mentally.

Yes K9 dogs are active officers and considered sworn officers.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Never did I say or hint that any officer can be excused if he/she does something that is out of line. I give answers from EXPERIANCE and when I see a video I look at it a whole lot different than most do, or deal with situations differently than most do. Its the nature of law enforcement. So DO NOT take that as me trying to justify an officers actions IF those actions are wrong.

Good people do do bad things sometimes, NO ONE is perfect, we ALL make mistakes, but some people think that once your a cop any mistake you make was done on purpose...apparently in some minds cops are that far above others ..

reply to post by rcwj1975

I DO agree hands on would of worked just fine in this case, but if THAT department SOP states that they use a taser BEFORE they go hands on then they are doing what they must per their policy.

Could you define the phrase "go hands on" for me? I have an idea but definitions and interpretations of phrases are relative per person, so a clarification would be appreciated.

Also, are you in a department that uses tasers AFTER? Would the sequence of events in that video from Flakey's original post be considered AFTER?

Thank you.