The Role of Religion on ATS

Good Morning everyone.

I am curious.

What is the role of religion on ATS?

As far as I am aware, ATS is a 'Conspiracy Website' - please correct me if I am wrong, in the spirit of denying ignorance.

I thoroughly enjoy discussing CONSPIRACIES involving the subjective matter of religion. There have been lots of interesting subjects and topics to peruse in this regard.

But I get confused when I see lots of threads discussing religious convictions. Religious folk seem to feel the need to put up threads asking when the Messiah is coming. Or ask when the rapture is. Or other such lovely threads as to why Gay folks wont get into heaven, and should be killed etc. There are no conspiracies in these subjects. Of course, many people will say "Oh but there is - this (they rabidly point to any given thread) particular conspiracy had this subject as part of it!".

Religion (or more specifically religious conviction) plays a big part in many conspiracies, but this is no excuse to constantly propound religious conviction as a good thing or that it is useful to the community on ATS. I have argued in many cases that religion is a BAD thing for the structure and integrity of ATS, and that it curtails empirical, logical and rational discussion and analysis of sensible conspiracy theory.

Is ATS worried about clamping down on the nutters because they form a disturbingly sizeable part of the 'active' community? Or that maybe ATS will receive bad press in the U.S?

Things cannot carry on as they are - the boards are getting clogged with the RELIGION vs. RATIONALITY argument, and it's proving difficult to go anywhere on this site without being assailed by crazy religious folk. I refuse to use the IGNORE button, as I would like to see the TRUE picture of the ATS community.

I digress.

The questions I pose to the management team at ATS are these -

What is the role of religion on ATS? And will the prescribed position of religion on ATS be policed?

With Thanks,

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


Why is it any stranger/more boring/nuttier to talk about religion than UFOs?

ATS deals in unexplained questions.

Religion is a valid topic, as are UFOs.

reply to post by TaraLou


I couldn't agree more.

Read my post again, I'm NOT asking for the suppression of discussion of religious conspiracies. I love discussing religious conspiracies. This is a CONSPIRACY website.

Parallex.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by Parallex]

reply to post by Parallex


Sorry, Para, but I think religion is a mystery, therefore everything is open for discussion.

I don't get your meaning?

reply to post by TaraLou


Religion is DEFINITELY a mystery, and a vast resource of juicy conspiracies.

So why are the nutters posting up threads like this -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

... in which there is absolutely no conspiratorial value.

I'm all FOR investigating the unknown, and understanding how religion constributes to conspiracy. But most of the (usually) Christian subjective matter threads look like Bible Studies or sermons from preachers - with very little useful conspiracy theory discussion in them. Is there nothing that can be done to curtail this plague?

Parallex.

P.S. May I also add, the thread shown above is BLATANTLY a cover for religious missionary work. They've tried to dress it up as a conspiratorial post, yet the holes are so obvious it hurts.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by Parallex]

Think you're parawacked on this one by a far cry.
There are a number of religious forums and I don't believe what you say
about getting jumped by religious nuts. Always with the insults and childish
name calling. tut tut tut. In short " my white rozy azz". Oh and" poorbaby".

[edit on 30-12-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
Think you're parawacked on this one by a far cry.
There are a number of religious forums and I don't believe what you say
about getting jumped by religious nuts. Always with the insults and childish
name calling. tut tut tut. In short " my white rozy azz". Oh and" poorbaby".

[edit on 30-12-2009 by randyvs]

What? I didn't understand a word of that. Please try again in English for me.

Parallex.

Originally posted by Parallex
Good Morning everyone.

I am curious.

What is the role of religion on ATS?

As far as I am aware, ATS is a 'Conspiracy Website' - please correct me if I am wrong, in the spirit of denying ignorance.

I thoroughly enjoy discussing CONSPIRACIES involving the subjective matter of religion. There have been lots of interesting subjects and topics to peruse in this regard.

But I get confused when I see lots of threads discussing religious convictions. Religious folk seem to feel the need to put up threads asking when the Messiah is coming. Or ask when the rapture is. Or other such lovely threads as to why Gay folks wont get into heaven, and should be killed etc. There are no conspiracies in these subjects. Of course, many people will say "Oh but there is - this (they rabidly point to any given thread) particular conspiracy had this subject as part of it!".

Religion (or more specifically religious conviction) plays a big part in many conspiracies, but this is no excuse to constantly propound religious conviction as a good thing or that it is useful to the community on ATS. I have argued in many cases that religion is a BAD thing for the structure and integrity of ATS, and that it curtails empirical, logical and rational discussion and analysis of sensible conspiracy theory.

Is ATS worried about clamping down on the nutters because they form a disturbingly sizeable part of the 'active' community? Or that maybe ATS will receive bad press in the U.S?

Things cannot carry on as they are - the boards are getting clogged with the RELIGION vs. RATIONALITY argument, and it's proving difficult to go anywhere on this site without being assailed by crazy religious folk. I refuse to use the IGNORE button, as I would like to see the TRUE picture of the ATS community.

I digress.

The questions I pose to the management team at ATS are these -

What is the role of religion on ATS? And will the prescribed position of religion on ATS be policed?

With Thanks,

Parallex.

If you have sense about you, then this should be an acceptable answer.

Religion means, "back to the origin". All things derived from the origin. Whatever has happened since the beginning is a direct result of the origin.

All religions are comprised of much more wisdom and intelligence than any science we have today. The reason being that these people have spent thousands more years adding their wisdom and knowledge about how to live life than modern science has. Modern science is good for technology and gizmos... but, not for TRUE LIFE ADVICE. And as far as that goes, we aren't getting any better with science -- life is getting worse.

Even though all religions are completely wrong and are used to control people, if people are wise enough and smart enough on their own, their own religions tell them how to not be so controlled. People are too fearful and that is PEOPLES' fault.

It is unwise to blame religion for man's fault. A work is a work in progress for sure, but it is more perfect than the actions of any man at any given time.

Even as Buddhism is completely foolish, it is still better to live by than modern science. Modern science is just perpetual anxiety. I tell you, things are going to fall hard if people don't wise up and start living.

Live minimally at home. Cut out that stupid cable/satellite TV. Buy used cars only and work on them yourself. Buy parts for computers to build yourself instead of buying them new. Learn to make your own clothes and blankets. Learn to grow -some- of your own food. But, feel free to go to McDonald's every once in a while. Read the newspaper, but don't use it for knowledge of reality; no, use it for knowledge of what people -think- is reality. Life is, all by itself, its own challenge and mystery all throughout. People need to start living their lives and understanding and believing things based on personal experience and understanding and wisdom and rely a WHOLE LOT LESS on people with their "doctrates" and "masters" and people with lots of money. People need to rely a whole lot less on people who are so empirical that they are like pathetic ROBOTS that regurgitate every peer reviewed article and yet have NO MIND OF THEIR OWN.

I can promise you this : if you only rely on empirical, hard evidence for everything that you know, you will die dumber than most of your peers. You will be a teenager for the rest of your life.

people talk about all sorts of things on this site, science, politics , religion. Its a great platform to disscuss these ideas, with like minded individuals. For me, the conspiracy part of ats is for entertainment. the best threads IMO are the ones that challenge traditional ways of thinking, like religion.

religious dogma has dominated the world for 2000 years, with little to challenge it. The internet has given us the oppourtunity to realy question the religious beliefs many of us have been brought up on.

I disagree, first ATS says on it's homepage a site for Alternative Topics.
Secondly, if your facts are strong then no one can do anything. At times I do agree it get's highly irritating/ annoying and frustrating when people put biblical/ islamic/ jewish etc etc quotes in a non religious discussion but simply do not pay heed to them.

This is what makes ATS diverse all kind of thoughts and people from all field of life.

This wasn't a rant. It was a legitimate question to the ATS team. In what I consider a rather cowardly move, Asala moved it to the RANT forum, where it wouldn't have to be answered by the ATS moderation team.

That's just not cricket, and further reinforces the fundamentalist Christian agenda being put in place on ATS.

Goodbye.

Im taking a break from religion and religion threads for a while... Things in my personal life have made me a bit jaded about the whole thing at the mo... To be honest its driving me nuts.... I see athiests and christians go at it mercilessly all the time, and i have to say that i have fell into the trap too... And SOME of the so-called christians on this site are soo lacking the basic tenet of faith which is LOVE that it has made me start to question the whole thing; like issues with gays etc showing no compassion and love, just condemnation.... NO AMOUNT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WAS EVER PRODUCED BY CONDEMMING SOMEOME.... So Im done with church for a while.... And these type of threads...

[edit on 083131p://f10Wednesday by Selahobed]

reply to post by Parallex


Para, a lot if not most threads addressing members' frustrations are moved to the rant forum even though they aren't really rants by strict definition ... I for one have also noticed an increase of religious dogma over the last few weeks. Maybe it's the season, most likely a cyclical thing. But moving the thread here is surely not an ideological thing as I'm sure staff gets accused of being atheist demons just as often.

If it helps, you can always contribute to this little abandoned thread from a while ago, which was framed in a more "conspiratorial" context thus remains on ATS rather than BTS. www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 30 Dec 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Now that's a quality thread S-Dog. It says in much more eloquent language alot of what I was trying to say.

I just wish the staff here would take a position and get off the fence on the subject of 'bludgeoning others with their conviction'. Is ATS a site that supports religious conviction? Or not? By sitting on the fence they're letting a massive problem brew, and losing their grasp on a representative breadth of participation.

I used to be religious, I know all the tricks and all the justifications. I know the mindset. I was educated in a Church of England faith-based school!

Ack. I don't know.

I just want to see ATS grow into what it should be - a fact-chasing conspiracy and alternative subject website. At the moment I feel like I'm in a Jehovahs' Witness Kingdom Hall.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


Para, I honestly feel for your frustration ... this is obviously a very important subject to you. Perhaps, and I mean this in an earnest way, too important for you to be able to discuss it with the personal detachment often required if one is to keep their sanity.

But you are asking of staff something that is simply beyond their mandate to do. The only thing that staff can address is T&C management/enforcement and to be of assistance to members should they require it. They cannot and will not, as staff members, take sides on ANY topic. As members they all have their individual beliefs and ideologies, and they are as varied as those of the membership. Seldom if ever do the two get mixed up in their actions, at least that's my personal observation.

As far as ATS leadership coming down on either side of ANY issue, that is highly unlikely, and in my opinion would be unwelcome. For then they would cease to be what they are, namely a neutral forum where anyone can express and exchange their thoughts and opinions with the only restriction being civility and decorum.

Please don't feel I am siding with staff in this regard, it just seems to me that the remedy you are seeking would in the long term open a boatload of cans of worms and would be counter productive to the id of ATS.

Maybe avoiding the "religion" discussions, which is what I do for the most part, is the best way forward.

[edit on 30 Dec 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Actually I would rather see a more scientific objective approach... Collation of information... Testing the info against verifiable historical records.. Delving through ancient manuscripts, and finding correlation between them. Visiting the sites the manuscripts describe to verify accuracy.. Learning the languages and culture of the writers and then matching the comparisons to the writings and culture... Looking at the migration of said culture from a verfiable historical source.. Then doing an impact assesment of that cultures assimillation or contributions to the host culture.. Taking a reductionsist approach from the physics level, then developing a systems approach AT the physics level, actually at the geophysical level.. Then realising the impossibility of the language used in the aramaic/hebrew manuscripts where each letter has a designated number... Each word written in those forms can be divisable by 7.. So can each sentence.. Each chapter.. In fact the whole book!! This is of course impossible.. However true...
That is EXACTLY my journey to faith.... However, at the mo I am NOT questioning the faith as it were, but those who profess it... I believe in G-d, Yeshua... But I KNOW He wants me to be HAPPY and live my life.. That is His gift to us, and why He set us free at the cross.. Our only obligation is love; and if you live your life with every decision made WITH love, and just living the life you was given... Then thats ok... You dont have to go to church to do that.. As long as you are generous, and compassionate, then you are NOT far from G-d.... We are faulted humans who needed saviour.. yeshua showed us the way and IS the way.. But it aint about religion.. Yeshua reminded us it was about the condition of our hearts.. He is our example, the way, and He NEVER condemed ANYONE, but loved them without condition even forgiving those who put Him on the cross.. So by THAT example is how i live.. Church can screw itself!! Real love HAS no rules where expectations and rules for love become future resentments when they let you down... So i love without expectation, without the church and relgion... I dont need religion to love.. I do it because that is me.. What i was created for... Sorry for the rant... But im done!!

I fail to see the issue. This is a discussion site. We're here to promote discussion on a variety of topics. The participants are from a diverse background, globally and socially. I see that as a good thing.

If you see posts that violate the T&C or are off-topic to the discussion, alert on them.

The staff will not be sanitizing threads to fit anyone's agenda whether it be for a pro religious perspective to suit the religious, or removal of on-topic religious perspective for those who don't want to see it. You refuse to use the Ignore button, and that's your choice. We have no intention of moderating a forum to suit anyone's personal preferences for or against anything.

It's the adult table designed for a discriminating audience. Some are ready for it much earlier than others. Anything here that is on-topic and T&C compliant causing anyone to flee in horror/disgust/contempt/disagreement/whatever probably means they aren't ready. Anyone is welcome to join us when they are.

reply to post by yeahright


Thats a somewhat blunt assessment. So if I start flagging posts for religious grandstanding and preaching - as well as constant quoting of scripture - the moderation team will take action?

Seriously, that's all I'm asking for - a little restraint to be put on those who clog up threads and whatnot with religious diatribe - totally off-topic and unhelpful.

Para.

reply to post by Parallex


As always, the moderation team will review the complaint, assess the situation, and take whatever action is reached by consensus. A consensus, by the way, reached by a group as diverse as the membership itself.

The very idea that a group as diverse as the moderating staff could ever push an agenda other than the one outlined in the Terms and Conditions is absurd. You'll find as much disagreement among the staff about every topic covered here as you will among the membership at large.

If you think it's off-topic, alert it. Responding in-thread only takes the topic further afield. Now I'm not suggesting everything you alert on will be actioned. But I guarantee all staff can see the forum where the alerts go, and all staff has the opportunity to weigh in on the discussion.

It's a discussion forum. At the end of the day, the goal is to foster on-topic, T&C compliant, civil discussion, not squelch it.

Note, last I checked, there are two different forums for religion.

In ATS, there is the forum for religious conspiracies (i.e. conspiracy topics involving religion)

In BTS, there is the forum for discussing religious beliefs, questions, etc.

If you see a post that should be moved to the appropriate board, please use the complaint feature, or U2U a mod that is online, to see if they can look at it, and move if needed.

No harm, no foul...