Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!

Originally posted by Locoman8
.........If I'm wrong and that's right, I think I'd rather be wrong because I refuse to be part of a church that's hypocritical.

Well said Locoman8.

It is this that seperates the Sheep from the Elect.

If, and I mean only IF, I felt I could post a response or open a new post that secured a majority of acceptance and agreement, then I would know ONE (1) thing is for certain.

I WOULD BE WRONG.

I expect, if I found 2 or 3 out of 100 agreed with me on anymatter Scriptural then I would be pushing it still. I would be more comfortable with such odds, but still think this is high.

As for RCC Bashing, it's not the Congregation that is the problem, and I trust this is clear to any thinking it is. The Problem resided amoungst the ENLIGHTENED ONES who makeup the Think Tank that administers Doctrine within the Bowels of the Vatican that are the Problem. It's an Internal flaw that needs to be corrected by a congregational uprising demanding better from the Clergy, who self profess to know better than GOD.

Teach the Word of GOD. This is the Duty of the Church. The Seven letters to the Chruches which open Revelations seem to point this out, but hey, for Christains in general, we do not need to look into Revelations, because the Church is special, or will not be here then. Whatever the reasoning is, it's a sad inditement of the Church as a whole.

And of course, this could apply to MOST Denominations out there. Not just the Holy RCC.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Yes, I agree. I think it's the "establishment" of catholicizm that's at fault and as you said, it's not just them. They are the ones that really started the "false doctrine" movement in christianity. The protestant churches are guilty of this as well adopting some things that originated in the catholic church. Things like sunday worship, the celebration of christmas and easter (pagan sun and fertility worship days) and the belief that you die and automatically go to heaven or burn eternally in hell.... which was a greek teaching.

Originally posted by Locoman8
They are the ones that really started the "false doctrine" movement in christianity. The protestant churches are guilty of this as well adopting some things that originated in the catholic church.

And I would think, since it is a conspiracy site, that it goes deeper than this.

I would think Satan would have been at work, twisting and distorting the message of Christ from it's infancy. He tempted Christ, utilizing scripture and manipulating meanings to suit his benefit, and I expect we had seen this again occuring in the Chruches that Paul dealt with, (ie 1 and 2 Thessalonians).

This influence is certainly something that has directed and diverted the aims and ambitions of all sects of Christianity, as well as the Jewish faith. There is still strong and beneficial teachings and instructions for living life in the Living Word of GOD, but when translations, such as the 1611 that Jolly King James has created, we tend to have the ability to have twistings and distortions occur, again, under the manipulation of Satan and his followers.

Things like sunday worship, the celebration of christmas and easter (pagan sun and fertility worship days) and the belief that you die and automatically go to heaven or burn eternally in hell.... which was a greek teaching.

And I agree again. It is a sad, sad thing, when you can have occurances such as this take place, without any questioning by the adherants of these faiths, when the simple solution would be to seek guidance and insight and study the Word of GOD to seek those answers.

But as I have noted in many posts here, the worst thing is the Bible and it's lack of use. It records the family trees (yours or mine), or carries the leaflets given out at the Door of the Church, but rarely are they studied and read. That is unless of course, it is in an effort to manipulate false Doctrines and Teachings which become the basis of the Dogma and Theology adopted by these various sects.

What I just wish to make sure is clear, it's not the Chruch's fault in itself. The Pride and Vainity of Satan is far reaching and I just believe it is within the inner circles of most faiths working to have things take place in an effort to lessen GOD's ways.

Anyways, back to the Begining.

I do believe, all in all your post has been a very considered and well documented Topic which has covered manythings I had not previously considered.

That doesn't mean much, since in the premise itself, I am of COMPLETE AGREEMENT.

The efforts you have taken to support your view has been useful expressing this in a calm and civil manner so many could at least review the information, if they did not opt to partake in the conversation.

I had always stuck to the Simple message provided in Genesis, and related the Translations of the Original Texts to the general outlook of Society and the Church at the time of those translations.

Going against the "Tenets of the Faith" and expressing views in contradiction to Doctrines of the Church was not the wisest thing to do. So, we have GOD creating Voidness, instead of the indications that the Earth, after the begining, BECAME a waste and desolation, as the Original Texts offer.

It was this, and the Earth Ages that demostrated to me, that things are not according to the Church and it's teachings. But it wouldn't have come to this point, if I never actually utilized the LETTER GOD wrote for me, and truthfully read and reviewed the Teachings of GOD.

But all things being equal, if 1 or 2 people actually felt inspired to learn and seek answers to further questions, by Picking up their Bible and using it for something other than a Carry Accessory, it will be well worth you time and effort.

Good Job

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Thank you for the kind words Shane. I extend my friendship to you and the best of luck to you and everyone here on ATS.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Shane

 

Yes, I agree. I think it's the "establishment" of catholicizm that's at fault and as you said, it's not just them. They are the ones that really started the "false doctrine" movement in christianity. The protestant churches are guilty of this as well adopting some things that originated in the catholic church. Things like sunday worship, the celebration of christmas and easter (pagan sun and fertility worship days) and the belief that you die and automatically go to heaven or burn eternally in hell.... which was a greek teaching.

Jesus came to ESTABLISH A CHURCH. "Peter, you are the rock upon which I will build my church."

Jesus chose 12 MEN to carry on his works " What you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven."

Those men created the tradtions and words that are in the FIRST and CORRECT bible, The Catholic Bible.

Others came along later to decide "1500 years of tradition are wrong, I KNOW what Jesus meant." (Martin Luther)

Catholics DO NOT BELIEVE that when you die you go straight to ANYWHERE. ONLY JESUS knows where you will go so if you perpetrate this lie then you are only grinding an ax.

Are there inconsistancies in the Bible? ABSOLUTELY. The Bible is analogy, the inspired word of God. Both. YOU disagree with how the church explains the bible? That is your GOD GIVEN right.

I will not diparage you for disagreeing. I will still respect you. But I WILL NOT LET YOU LIE without response.

reply to post by crmanager


Conjecture. Please don't claim it's the word of God without any evidence to that effect. It doesn't say "deny ignorance" up there for a joke.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by crmanager

 

Conjecture. Please don't claim it's the word of God without any evidence to that effect. It doesn't say "deny ignorance" up there for a joke.

PLEASE!!!...read again. "The inspired word of God." NO ONE can claim the word of God, just inspiration. PLEASE!!!...Your claim of "Deny Ignorance" does NOT give you the truth by default.

reply to post by crmanager


How is it the inspired word of God when there's no evidence of a God? Your point is still entirely conjectural.

I agree, my claim of "deny ignorance" does not automatically give me truth. It does, however, highlight the fact you are not acting in a rational manner when describing what, to any standard of evidence, is a work of fiction.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by crmanager

 

How is it the inspired word of God when there's no evidence of a God? Your point is still entirely conjectural.

I agree, my claim of "deny ignorance" does not automatically give me truth. It does, however, highlight the fact you are not acting in a rational manner when describing what, to any standard of evidence, is a work of fiction.

Is there "proof" of love?

Is there "proof" of a "higher plane of being?"

Is there "proof" of the "theory of relativity?"

No...BUT...the Theory of Relativity is generally considered correct. And WITHOUT "proof.

Please stop with your "God must come down and sit on my face to prove his existance" mentality.

Not helpful to a conversation.

reply to post by crmanager


The catholic bible? Oh, you mean the Latin Vulgate? This is a bible that was never even written in it's original language. There are many reliable translations out there which are translated directly from the earliest known hebrew and greek texts. Time and time again I see additions in the bible added by the early catholic church fathers.... especially verses explaining the "trinity". I'm not going to get in a catholic vs. other denomination fight on this thread with you. If you'd like to discuss further on your choice of church to follow, I'd be happy to invite you to my threads discussing this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These threads are actually together... continuations of each other. The first thread is the original and it gives the case that Simon Magus... who was mistakenly known in Rome as "Simon Peter" actually started the Roman Catholic Church. Don't comment any further on this thread to argue your case on the church. This is a thread for the chronology of creation. Thank you and God bless.

reply to post by davesidious


Don't turn this thread into an athiest/christain fight for or against weather God exists or not. I welcome any discussion on the actual subject but please don't taint this thread with a bunch of "bible bashing". There are other threads for that. Thank you.

Originally posted by crmanager
I will not diparage you for disagreeing. I will still respect you. But I WILL NOT LET YOU LIE without response.

Well there is no need to concern yourself, since I would generally agree what you offered is quite factual, as far as I am concerned. I would suggest, as I will, it wouldn't be worth the effort of argue these are not Scriptural.

I think the Problems that effect the RCC, are due to the RCC itself. Internally, and specifically due to what they have done. And I think there would be a Viable Post already discussing this matter, where we could go thru point/counterpoint.

Only a Suggestion though. I am not telling you, you need to. Just suggesting, because it is outside of the main theme and I wouldn't wish to distract from the Original Premise.

Have a good day

Shane

reply to post by crmanager


Yes, there is distinct evidence of love. There is no evidence for a higher plane of being. There is distinct evidence for the theory of relativity. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

And I'm sure my assertions of irrationality are not helpful to a believer, just as they won't help anyone with any other irrational beliefs.

reply to post by Locoman8


I'm not bashing the bible, just bashing unfounded statements. The idea of this site is to deny ignorance, which must include pointing out illogical statements people make. People stating that God exists, without any evidence, are clearly being delusional. Let them have their fun on their own boards, not on one with "deny ignorance" plastered in big letters on the top.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by crmanager

 

Yes, there is distinct evidence of love. There is no evidence for a higher plane of being. There is distinct evidence for the theory of relativity. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

And I'm sure my assertions of irrationality are not helpful to a believer, just as they won't help anyone with any other irrational beliefs.

reply to post by Locoman8

 

I'm not bashing the bible, just bashing unfounded statements. The idea of this site is to deny ignorance, which must include pointing out illogical statements people make. People stating that God exists, without any evidence, are clearly being delusional. Let them have their fun on their own boards, not on one with "deny ignorance" plastered in big letters on the top.

Please stop with the semantics. Evidence is not proof. There was a request for proof.

There is no "evidence" of love.

Love is the name we put on a feeling, like "the blues."

Ther is NO PROOF of Relativity, just conjecture.

Originally posted by TheMythLives


I do have a question, however, if Lucifer does have control of the world can he also create? I know it does not exactley go with your thread, but it sort of does to a point. Could Lucifer also have the power to create things as well since he has the power to grant anyone he wishes leadership over the entire earth? I know it is impossible for you to know the answer, but your speculations and theories are quite interesting. I would like to know what you think about that...

[edit on Dec 30th 2009 by TheMythLives]

If I remember correctly, it states somewhere in the Bible that one of the ways to distinguish the falsities of Satan from the truth of God/Jesus was the he did not have the power of creation. Satan could perform or imitate every other miracle except the gift of creation, that was exclusively God's domain.

reply to post by crmanager


Of course there is evidence for love. Just because you don't know of it doesn't make it so. Please, for future reference, research before showing the world how ignorant you are.

Again, another great demonstration of how ignorant you are - in science (except mathematics) there is no such thing as proof, just evidence. And there is a metric buttload of evidence for the theory of relativity.

Your ignorance is staggering, shadowed only by your arrogance in that if you don't know something, then it can't exist.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by crmanager

 

Of course there is evidence for love. Just because you don't know of it doesn't make it so. Please, for future reference, research before showing the world how ignorant you are.

Again, another great demonstration of how ignorant you are - in science (except mathematics) there is no such thing as proof, just evidence. And there is a metric buttload of evidence for the theory of relativity.

Your ignorance is staggering, shadowed only by your arrogance in that if you don't know something, then it can't exist.

You quote WIKI as evidence??? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA

Is relativity PROVEN? Find that answer. YOU CAN'T? That is because there is NO SUCH THING AS PROOF! You words.

BUT you seek that same proof for the existence of God and his inspired word...

Fantastic Mr. "Ignorance is staggering.

reply to post by davesidious

People stating that God exists, without any evidence, are clearly being delusional. Let them have their fun on their own boards, not on one with "deny ignorance" plastered in big letters on the top.

And still you're on a witch hunt for christians on this thread. This board is called "Origins & CREATIONISM Conspiracy" which means that there will be discussions of a "Creator" to counter claims of "Evolution". Also, ATS has a few christian or religious boards as well. Are we ignorant because we believe in something or someone we've never seen? No! To you, it may be a fantasy but to many of us, it's as if God speaks through us. Just because I've never physically seen one million dollars doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Deny Ignorance, friend. People have certain beliefs that to them are real, and who are you to say they're wrong or right?

And my evidence for God's existence..... look at everything around you. Trees, the sky, the ocean.... A little speck of dirt floating around in a vast ocean of nothingness circling a giant ball of fire.... unbelieveable! It's God's work all around us. Things didn't happen by accident. My evidence of His existence is nature, life, love, happiness. Deny Ignorance and realize there are opposing views but respect is still being asked of. Good day to you.

reply to post by Locoman8


You are being irrational. I don't mind if people talk about God, just don't phrase it as fact. That is ignorant, dishonest, and quite frankly damaging to the conversation.

I'm not denying people have different beliefs, but if they can't demonstrate them to be true through any actual real evidence (trees are not evidence of God, btw), then they are being by definition irrational. To entertain them as valid, when trying to have a discussion, is pointless, as where do we turn logic on and off? How can we have a discussion, using language, where some illogical ideas are allowed to be called true, and others not? That makes no sense. If people are so upset about having their shaky, baseless beliefs called into question, maybe they should not parade them in front of others when they are trying to have a decent conversation?

Your evidence is not evidence, by the way. None of it is. Not even close.

Don't know if yall have heard of Gerald Schroeder or not....but yall should check this dude's stuff out. He's hard to argue with.

www.geraldschroeder.com...