An interesting take to make your point; however the real conspiracy is in the jist of it all, and that is the very beginning. God saw and corrected to
keep it short, and he saw all (that he created) was very good. Now it is at this point (satan), as people point to as the evil one; again however the
snake tells the truth (about the fruit of the tree) and it gets verified (again escaping death the very same day)and ticks off god (who is supposed to
be ALL knowing). The two people did indeed see(knowledge as the snake said they would, without impending death) and god couldn't find them(when he
came calling) to begin with, then punishes woman and man forever more (for disobeying & eating the fruit; not by death as previously threatened). (God
saw all that he created and saw it was good) but I guess he overlooked some things, being all knowing and his hand was forced to make corrections.
Secondly; the time line;
A day is as a thousand years to god. So the plan was to create and then rest; nevermore to do anything, yet this same god is continually giving
orders and literally destroying entire civilizations (tribes) woman, children and those we pregnant just in case. He also taught these chosen people
how to not only attack and fight, but ambush which is simply deceiving and taking advantage. Again, from a god who claims to be able to will people to
do according to his will, and is the purest form of good and honest. All this and more is in Said bible; which by the way was conceived by Constantine
(Pope) after assembling his best writers so they could come up with one book, one religion to fit everyone's needs and observe their holy days as
well. Giving him ultimate power and a following with the minimal resistance.
I could go on and on, but the point is made. It is documented fact, and readily available on line or in your bibles to verify all of the previous
stuff.
The latest skeletons found are approx a million years or so old, and man's tenure here on this planet is well documented well beyond 5000 or so years
for the people who believe in a marketed god because they are told to, no other reason than less resistance while handing power to those who simply
claimed it. The whole point being that the timeline and motives like the OP stated are way off, in every respect.
Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!, page 3
reply posted on 30-12-2009 @ 08:23 PM by DeathShield
reply to post by Gumerk
How could we learn to choose between right and wrong if we lived in a world where everything was perfect? Where everything was good and evil had no way of meddling in our affairs. How would we learn or discover anything if all the answers and solutions to the universes problems were handed to us?
How could we learn to choose between right and wrong if we lived in a world where everything was perfect? Where everything was good and evil had no way of meddling in our affairs. How would we learn or discover anything if all the answers and solutions to the universes problems were handed to us?
reply posted on 30-12-2009 @ 08:33 PM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Gumerk
If one looks closely at the original text found in the Dead Sea Scrolls Deteronomy 32: 8-9
This is refering to the 70 nations after the Flood. What this appears to mean is that G-d didn't give the powers and principalities (The Dragon) their authority until after the Flood.
So in some sense, humanity seems to have lost some authority or stewardship over the earth. In place of that, the powers and principalities have been given authority over the nations and the earth. Well almost all nations, as Jacob (Israel) belongs to G-d and Michael is Israel's chief prince.
If one looks closely at the original text found in the Dead Sea Scrolls Deteronomy 32: 8-9
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples
according to the number of the sons of G-d.
For the L-RD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance.
This is refering to the 70 nations after the Flood. What this appears to mean is that G-d didn't give the powers and principalities (The Dragon) their authority until after the Flood.
So in some sense, humanity seems to have lost some authority or stewardship over the earth. In place of that, the powers and principalities have been given authority over the nations and the earth. Well almost all nations, as Jacob (Israel) belongs to G-d and Michael is Israel's chief prince.
reply posted on 30-12-2009 @ 09:42 PM by pumpkinorange
Originally posted by katoomer3
Please explain in a logical way how "we" believe "blindly" in evolution. First off, as this has been said many times before... the theory of evolution is observable and supported by the majority of scientists in related biological/anthropological fields.
Kat,
A principal tenet of the theory of evolutiuon as it is commonly discussed is, well, you know, "evolution", i.e. that simple life forms evolve into more complex life forms. That complex species evolve from less complex different speciies.
Yet such transformation has never been observed or duplicated in a laboratory from what I have read. Just saying....
Here is one tome that discusses these issue. You can google away on your own about this and find the same I believe.
edit to attach
www.conservapedia.com...
[edit on 30-12-2009 by pumpkinorange]
reply posted on 30-12-2009 @ 10:57 PM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by pumpkinorange
Its interesting that the Chosech or Outer Darkness upon the face of Tehom could not understand or comprehend the Light in John 1. Keep in mind this "darkness" isn't normal darkness.
Its the same darkness that would extinguish light and that the ancient Egyptians could feel. Exodus 10:21
The outer darkness that G-d dwells in. 2 Chronicles 6:1
It appears to be the same outer darkness in the Gospel of Matthew that seems to function like the veil in the temple, as a barrier to the holiest of holies.
Some people get confused by Revelations 22, which describes the New Jerusalem that descends from G-d and the Heavens in Rev 21. That is something completely separate.
[edit on 30/12/09 by MikeboydUS]
Its interesting that the Chosech or Outer Darkness upon the face of Tehom could not understand or comprehend the Light in John 1. Keep in mind this "darkness" isn't normal darkness.
Its the same darkness that would extinguish light and that the ancient Egyptians could feel. Exodus 10:21
Then the L-RD said to Moses, "Stretch out your hand toward the sky so that darkness will spread over Egypt--darkness that can be felt."
The outer darkness that G-d dwells in. 2 Chronicles 6:1
Then said Solomon, The L-RD has said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.Psalm 18:11
He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.2 Samuel 22:12
And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.1 Kings 8:12
Then Solomon said, “The L-RD has said that he lives in thick darkness.Deuteronomy 4:11
And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
It appears to be the same outer darkness in the Gospel of Matthew that seems to function like the veil in the temple, as a barrier to the holiest of holies.
Some people get confused by Revelations 22, which describes the New Jerusalem that descends from G-d and the Heavens in Rev 21. That is something completely separate.
[edit on 30/12/09 by MikeboydUS]
reply posted on 30-12-2009 @ 11:07 PM by Gumerk
Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by Gumerk
How could we learn to choose between right and wrong if we lived in a world where everything was perfect? Where everything was good and evil had no way of meddling in our affairs. How would we learn or discover anything if all the answers and solutions to the universes problems were handed to us?
Fair enough. Wouldn't that make God and satan teammates though? Good and evil working together for mans spiritual education? Also, Jesus came into the world to be a sacrifice for mankind. Doesn't this mean we couldn't save ourselves? I suppose that still takes faith though, and there is still the evil to learn these lessons from. A little help or nudge doesn't hurt in my opinion. Thanks..Gum
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 12:14 AM by Shane
reply to post by Locoman8
I am glad you where the one to offer your impressions on this subject matter, simply due to the fact that if I had posted such a thing, every freak who with their GOD hatefilled views would have said I was a nut.
I have been posting here for several years, and I fully agree, 100% with the premise you have placed here for consideration.
Anytime I have mentioned Genesis, I have tended to refer to it as the Genesis Account, simply due to the obvious problems found in Genesis in the first place.
1st: When considering Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, we have an immeadite problem.
In the Begining, GOD created the Heavens and the Earth.
In the balance of the Genesis Account, we clearly see one thing is repeated. To paraphrase, And GOD saw, it was good.
He created the Firmament, and it was good. He Recreated man on the 6th day, and it was good.
GOD never creates Waste/Void/Desolation/Without Form. This is the realm of the Fallen and their leader.
No, the problem in Genesis 1:2 is the Translators themselves. They erred in their application of the Original Text into English.
The King James 1611 Bible clearly says,
But a review of the Original langauge, indicates a perfectly acceptable translation could also have applied indicating.
Genesis 1:2 And the Earth became a waste and a desolation, which of course, several posters have sort of already adressed, in an alternative manner.
Genesis 1:2 covers the War that occured between GOD and the Fallen. It was the outcome of that event, that turned the world into that waste and desolation, which could have the appearance of being without form and void, but this was not how it was originally created.
Scripture is fairly clear also, that we are currently in the Second Earth Age. If this is the second, then there must have been a first.
We also see other "Curious" mannerisms expressed.
Now man, is expressed as something that was a "familiar" Speices.
It could have indicated, Let us Create an upright form with independent thought and call it Man.
No, I am fairly certain, Man was here in the First Earth Age, and in all likelyhood, resembled what Evolutionist base the premise of their faith in. In reality, we STILL and ALWAYS WILL have a MISSING LINK, until Evolutionists sit down and calmly realize, the Genesis Account is clearly noting why there is a missing link.
GOD and the Angels made a better man on the 6th day. And GOD also gives him a strange thing to do.
You do not replenish, a "NEW" Creation. No, 6th Day man was a Re-Created spieces, and told to replenish the Earth.
But I would like to suggest, we actually have a bit of a 'flow' problem in Genesis.
Genesis 1:1 is the First Creation.
Genesis 1:3 through to Genesis 2:3 is the RE Creation
Genesis 2:4 is the second Creation of a Specific Man. The Gardener.
But none the less, you have done a great job in assembling together these Scriptures and presenting this in a Timeline.
Although anything is possible, why would this need to occur. Prior to the Flood, we had a barrier refered to as Heaven or the Firmament, which held the "higher" pressures for things such as Dinosaurs, and more specifically FLYING Dinosaurs, to live and be mobile. Not to mention the Flora/Plant life, which was considerably larger than what we see occur today.
And after the flood, we have devolved into the present lifeforms we are today.
May I suggest you review the following testamony of JOB.
Job
A great tale of Love and Loyality to GOD. But Satan appears to have been given the authority to have several things occur, which seem to include Earth Studies and Climate/Weather Control
I think you missed the problem. My intro here discusses what this Earth became, and I believe this could not have been left alone, so to speak. It needed to be refreshed.
There is also another consideration, which is expressed within the Book of Enoch. The Fallen, are no longer "Physical Concerns" since they have been effectively dealt with during the flood.
Enoch Chapter 10
I hope this helps in answering your question.
You make an interesting notation, but I think there is more in respects to this, which tends to be either overlooked or outright ignored either due to some intent or through a lack of comprehension of GOD's Word.
Egypt is his people.
Assyria the work of his hands.
and Israel his inheritance.
Two of these three people, tend to be overlooked in respects to having an association and affiliation to GOD. Things like this SHOULD NEVER be overlooked.
I look forward to seeing where this leads to, and I would suggest if anyone who seemingly has difficulties with this topic only NEEDS TO ASK. It appears quite a few posters have a pretty good grasp on this subject matter.
Ciao
Shane
I am glad you where the one to offer your impressions on this subject matter, simply due to the fact that if I had posted such a thing, every freak who with their GOD hatefilled views would have said I was a nut.
I have been posting here for several years, and I fully agree, 100% with the premise you have placed here for consideration.
Anytime I have mentioned Genesis, I have tended to refer to it as the Genesis Account, simply due to the obvious problems found in Genesis in the first place.
1st: When considering Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, we have an immeadite problem.
In the Begining, GOD created the Heavens and the Earth.
In the balance of the Genesis Account, we clearly see one thing is repeated. To paraphrase, And GOD saw, it was good.
He created the Firmament, and it was good. He Recreated man on the 6th day, and it was good.
GOD never creates Waste/Void/Desolation/Without Form. This is the realm of the Fallen and their leader.
No, the problem in Genesis 1:2 is the Translators themselves. They erred in their application of the Original Text into English.
The King James 1611 Bible clearly says,
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void
But a review of the Original langauge, indicates a perfectly acceptable translation could also have applied indicating.
Genesis 1:2 And the Earth became a waste and a desolation, which of course, several posters have sort of already adressed, in an alternative manner.
Genesis 1:2 covers the War that occured between GOD and the Fallen. It was the outcome of that event, that turned the world into that waste and desolation, which could have the appearance of being without form and void, but this was not how it was originally created.
Scripture is fairly clear also, that we are currently in the Second Earth Age. If this is the second, then there must have been a first.
We also see other "Curious" mannerisms expressed.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:....
Now man, is expressed as something that was a "familiar" Speices.
It could have indicated, Let us Create an upright form with independent thought and call it Man.
No, I am fairly certain, Man was here in the First Earth Age, and in all likelyhood, resembled what Evolutionist base the premise of their faith in. In reality, we STILL and ALWAYS WILL have a MISSING LINK, until Evolutionists sit down and calmly realize, the Genesis Account is clearly noting why there is a missing link.
GOD and the Angels made a better man on the 6th day. And GOD also gives him a strange thing to do.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,....
You do not replenish, a "NEW" Creation. No, 6th Day man was a Re-Created spieces, and told to replenish the Earth.
But I would like to suggest, we actually have a bit of a 'flow' problem in Genesis.
Genesis 1:1 is the First Creation.
Genesis 1:3 through to Genesis 2:3 is the RE Creation
Genesis 2:4 is the second Creation of a Specific Man. The Gardener.
But none the less, you have done a great job in assembling together these Scriptures and presenting this in a Timeline.
reply to Solofront
Do you think that during the recreation of the earth, god expanded the earth, to thin out the atomosphere, etc...to make way for present lifeforms we have today?
Although anything is possible, why would this need to occur. Prior to the Flood, we had a barrier refered to as Heaven or the Firmament, which held the "higher" pressures for things such as Dinosaurs, and more specifically FLYING Dinosaurs, to live and be mobile. Not to mention the Flora/Plant life, which was considerably larger than what we see occur today.
And after the flood, we have devolved into the present lifeforms we are today.
Reply ot TheMythLives
...Could Lucifer also have the power to create things as well since he has the power to grant anyone he wishes leadership over the entire earth? I know it is impossible for you to know the answer, but your speculations and theories are quite interesting. I would like to know what you think about that...
May I suggest you review the following testamony of JOB.
Job
A great tale of Love and Loyality to GOD. But Satan appears to have been given the authority to have several things occur, which seem to include Earth Studies and Climate/Weather Control
Reply to Safandjaro
Allright, an interesting explanation. But why would God create a new species Man and a new earth in the middle of the enemy's base. If satan was cast unto earth. Why not leave this rock alone.
I think you missed the problem. My intro here discusses what this Earth became, and I believe this could not have been left alone, so to speak. It needed to be refreshed.
There is also another consideration, which is expressed within the Book of Enoch. The Fallen, are no longer "Physical Concerns" since they have been effectively dealt with during the flood.
Enoch Chapter 10
I hope this helps in answering your question.
reply to MikeboydUS
reply to post by Gumerk
For the L-RD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance.
Well almost all nations, as Jacob (Israel) belongs to G-d and Michael is Israel's chief prince.
You make an interesting notation, but I think there is more in respects to this, which tends to be either overlooked or outright ignored either due to some intent or through a lack of comprehension of GOD's Word.
Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
Egypt is his people.
Assyria the work of his hands.
and Israel his inheritance.
Two of these three people, tend to be overlooked in respects to having an association and affiliation to GOD. Things like this SHOULD NEVER be overlooked.
I look forward to seeing where this leads to, and I would suggest if anyone who seemingly has difficulties with this topic only NEEDS TO ASK. It appears quite a few posters have a pretty good grasp on this subject matter.
Ciao
Shane
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 12:28 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Shane
The replenish error.
In the Hebrew it doesn't mean refill, technically the old meaning of replenish also only meant "to fill".
Male' (maw-lay), means to fill.
The replenish error.
In the Hebrew it doesn't mean refill, technically the old meaning of replenish also only meant "to fill".
Male' (maw-lay), means to fill.
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 02:29 AM by gstrange42
Wow!
This thread does show how dum people are.
It is well know that there are a lot of books missing from the bible I think there were 5 before Genesis. These books are termed the Apocrypha, and you will find there are a lot of them. They didn't make the cut because of politics.
The Book of Enoch should be before Genesis:
www.sacred-texts.com...
A lot of the Bible is missing, most of the missing bit put the whole of organised religion in bad light. The Gospel of St. Thomas is one of the one that rips the church a new hole.
If you have really researched the bible, you will notice references to books and gospels that are missing.
It's threads like this that make me HEADDESK, and want to run away from this sight screaming their all loons.
This thread does show how dum people are.
It is well know that there are a lot of books missing from the bible I think there were 5 before Genesis. These books are termed the Apocrypha, and you will find there are a lot of them. They didn't make the cut because of politics.
The Book of Enoch should be before Genesis:
www.sacred-texts.com...
A lot of the Bible is missing, most of the missing bit put the whole of organised religion in bad light. The Gospel of St. Thomas is one of the one that rips the church a new hole.
If you have really researched the bible, you will notice references to books and gospels that are missing.
It's threads like this that make me HEADDESK, and want to run away from this sight screaming their all loons.
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 03:22 AM by Locoman8
reply to post by gstrange42
So run for the hills why don't you? I have an NRSV bible with the Apocrypha in it. One problem with the Apocrypha is how much of it is contradicting to the rest of biblical scripture. Some books are good for historic facts such as the 4 books of the Macabees. The 2 extra chapters of Daniel do nothing but confuse the reader because the story flow is broken. You have to understand that there were many people in Israel who used names of great biblical writers to give their literature credibility. This is quite evident in the "Lost books of the bible" which are new testament additions such as the gospels of Mary, Thomas, Judas, the Infancy, the Apostle's Creed, the lost gospel of Peter, etc... Most of these books were written after the first century by catholic priests and early catholic fathers. If you read what we have presently as the Holy Bible, you'll find Peter instructing that all scripture of the Old and New Testament shall not be changed. Not one dot of the i or cross of the t. Paul tells Timothy that all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for direction. Don't believe everything that was written in that time. These books we have today as the Holy Bible have withstood the test of time.
So run for the hills why don't you? I have an NRSV bible with the Apocrypha in it. One problem with the Apocrypha is how much of it is contradicting to the rest of biblical scripture. Some books are good for historic facts such as the 4 books of the Macabees. The 2 extra chapters of Daniel do nothing but confuse the reader because the story flow is broken. You have to understand that there were many people in Israel who used names of great biblical writers to give their literature credibility. This is quite evident in the "Lost books of the bible" which are new testament additions such as the gospels of Mary, Thomas, Judas, the Infancy, the Apostle's Creed, the lost gospel of Peter, etc... Most of these books were written after the first century by catholic priests and early catholic fathers. If you read what we have presently as the Holy Bible, you'll find Peter instructing that all scripture of the Old and New Testament shall not be changed. Not one dot of the i or cross of the t. Paul tells Timothy that all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for direction. Don't believe everything that was written in that time. These books we have today as the Holy Bible have withstood the test of time.
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 03:28 AM by Locoman8
reply to post by Dalo321
The snake spoke decievingly by telling the truth in a lieing way. They would not die immediately by eating the fruit.... but they would lose the immortality God bestowed upon them and they would age and die eventually. It's because of this that mankind has to suffer death.
God saw good in his "re-creation" but his former angel Lucifer... now Satan, is the cause of evil and chaos due to his rebellion. God had to change plans but the all-knowing God was prepared. He had every contingency plan mapped out. If ___ happens then I'll place plan A in action. If ____ happens then I'll place plan B in action. The Goal has never changed..... just the road to that goal.
Now it is at this point (satan), as people point to as the evil one; again however the snake tells the truth (about the fruit of the tree) and it gets verified (again escaping death the very same day)and ticks off god (who is supposed to be ALL knowing). The two people did indeed see(knowledge as the snake said they would, without impending death) and god couldn't find them(when he came calling) to begin with, then punishes woman and man forever more (for disobeying & eating the fruit; not by death as previously threatened). (God saw all that he created and saw it was good) but I guess he overlooked some things, being all knowing and his hand was forced to make corrections.
The snake spoke decievingly by telling the truth in a lieing way. They would not die immediately by eating the fruit.... but they would lose the immortality God bestowed upon them and they would age and die eventually. It's because of this that mankind has to suffer death.
God saw good in his "re-creation" but his former angel Lucifer... now Satan, is the cause of evil and chaos due to his rebellion. God had to change plans but the all-knowing God was prepared. He had every contingency plan mapped out. If ___ happens then I'll place plan A in action. If ____ happens then I'll place plan B in action. The Goal has never changed..... just the road to that goal.
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 07:46 AM by Maslo
Originally posted by pumpkinorange
A principal tenet of the theory of evolutiuon as it is commonly discussed is, well, you know, "evolution", i.e. that simple life forms evolve into more complex life forms. That complex species evolve from less complex different speciies.
Yet such transformation has never been observed or duplicated in a laboratory from what I have read. Just saying....
Here is one tome that discusses these issue. You can google away on your own about this and find the same I believe.
edit to attach
www.conservapedia.com...
[edit on 30-12-2009 by pumpkinorange]
A simple example is bacteria evolving antibiotic resistance or ability to digest nylon. Obviously its complexity increased in the process, because its capable of more.
Speciation (splitting of species, macroevolution) has also been observed both in wildlife and in a laboratory.
Try to learn from less biased sources like Conservapedia:
en.wikipedia.org...
reply posted on 31-12-2009 @ 08:13 AM by Shane
Originally posted by MikeboydUS
In the Hebrew it doesn't mean refill, technically the old meaning of replenish also only meant "to fill".
Male' (maw-lay), means to fill.
Yes, Male' means a lot of things, which is truthfully confusing, BUT it is inclusive of replenish, (to fill again / refill / restock / resupply / etc......).
4390 male' maw-lay' or malae (Esth. 7:5) {maw-law'}; a primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively):--accomplish, confirm, + consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfil, (be, become, X draw, give in, go) full(-ly, -ly set, tale), (over-)flow, fulness, furnish, gather (selves, together), presume, replenish, satisfy, set, space, take a (hand-)full, + have wholly.
replenish [rɪˈplɛnɪʃ] vb (tr)
1. to make full or complete again by supplying what has been used up or is lacking
2. to put fresh fuel on (a fire)
These same words are echoed in the Noah account.
Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Taken in context of what is being noted to Noah and his sons, the verb usage of "replenish" seems appropriate, since they are infact refilling the Earth, based on their last 150 some years of work, and the end result.
I had never given this a second thought. The "meaning" seems fairly clear in this situation, but obviously, it isn't.
I still believe though, that this doesn't deminish the premise put forth. It is abundantly clear, the Genesis Account is a RE-Creation Story from Genesis 1:2 forward to Adam created on the 8th day (The day after the day of rest) found in Genesis 2:4.
Thanks for noting this and ensuring we are not just taking "my word" for something Mike.
Ciao
Shane
P.S. Reference Sources
1611 King James Index
Strong's
thefreedictionary
Christians help me debunk these non sense atheistic beliefs about Genesis please
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