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"Are we slaves to the Internet?" Today, this question really hits home for me

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by llpoolej
 


I agree. I'm not sure what prompted Cox to do that. I also thought that the game publisher just told them what files they wanted to delete...but as I stated in my earlier post, the customer service agent had records of THE EXACT files that must be deleted, even the ones in "AppData" (Which is a HIDDEN folder btw).

So, yes I did "steal" and I admit to that...but this kind of ISP monitoring is unacceptable.




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:43 PM
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ahhhh, you got a gaming company po'd at you. That's why they were able to get at Cox to the point of turning you off. That makes more sense

I have had to actually use lawyers from PPA to get deviant art to remove my photo that was being sold as a silk screen. It even had people who had commented that it was their dog, taken by me. I sent three notices, and nothing happened.

The gaming industry probably gets pretty serious with ISP's and has lawyers that will follow through with suits, that they will win. Hence, the fast turning you off

I would say if your connection is left open, and not firewalled, they could easily access your computer. I am not computer geeky enough to know how they can do what

I do know a friend's ex shortly after their divorce would remotely access her computer. He is an IT guy and she had to get a court order for it to stop. That and her brother seriously encrypting the router.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by llpoolej
 


Did you have a copyright already on your paintings? Really gotta be careful there, especially with Deviant Art. I'm glad they took them down
.

I would NEVER do anything like that (use others' work for profit/credit)

Morally, I look at torrenting games a lot differently than plagiarism.

As for Cox, I still have found nothing in their ToS that says they are able to monitor/scan my hard drive. I'm thinking about giving them another call soon.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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As a photographer(even as just a regular person) in the USA, the moment the image is created, it is copyright protected and the property of the creator *unless* you have a work for hire agreement. In Canada, it is a little different. I am American, so, I go by US copyright law. It is easier to collect monetary damages if you register it with the copyright office. You do not have to register your images to be protected under copyright law www.copyright.gov...

Thought it is easier to look at the larger companies with disdain, they still have to turn a profit to stay in business and develop more games.

I have a family member who is a major pirate and I told my kids that it was stealing(and it is) and they walked up to that family member and said "Mommy says you steal" To which, I had to admit I had said it. It was true on both what I said and the stealing part! I can't scream about my photos being stolen and then say it is ok for me to take someone else's material, no matter what it is

Oh, and to add one more thing, when a photo is sold, they do not, unless agreed upon, get the right to reproduce that photo in any manner. Not by scanning for web use or for printing. They are sold only the photo.

I do give a web sized copy for them to share, as it is something most all clients want. Do people scan, print and reproduce my works? I am sure they do. Its not legal, nor morally right. It is discussed. People do what they want though. I really do like my clients and as a rule have awesome ones. I do my best to make sure they have what they want so they don't have to resort to things against my agreement

Believe me, I have had this discussion with a friend who family was really into the legal system. She was certain since I was not an attorney, I didn't know what I was talking about and she had the right to scan and use photos. The ones in question had a seal you had to break that said "Illegal to scan or reproduce". Yet, she was STILL convinced she could

Moral relativism at its best


[edit on 12/29/2009 by llpoolej]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by llpoolej
 


Good for you, teaching your kids moral values! Yes, while I admit my views towards "big corporations" and independent developers can be considered hypocritical...I do believe ANY kind of piracy is wrong.

I just think stealing from a big company is not as bad as (not to mention less noticeable) doing the same to a PERSON. That's why I usually purchase indie games.

Again, my stance may seem to be a little biased...but I'm sticking to it


[edit on 29-12-2009 by mitman93]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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I am 100% with you regarding ISPs being able to access your computer.

Although, in the 12 years of my computing life and also working for broadband technical support for BT; I have never seen this in my life. I have heard about it though, but I have never seen it.

The thing is, in order for the ISP to access your computer without having to port scan it with program like "nmap" then exploiting a service running on your computer; they would have to give you a CD/DVD when you first subscribed that tells you to "insert the installation disk and press OK".

If this is the case, then I would recommend that you do a bit of social engineering. Phone up your ISP again and ask them could they check to see if all the files are gone on your PC because you think they are still somewhere on the hard drive and you would like to be legit and in good terms with your ISP. Before you make the phone call, set up a network monitoring tool to see how they do it. Run a program called Wireshark or even run the command "netstat /all" a few times while they are doing it. There are much better ways of doing this if your on a UNIX or Linux machine, but you can still do it with Windows.

Within the packet-file (pcap) on Wireshark you will be able to see everything coming from your computer to your ISPs computer...that is of course...if they do have the ability.

For some reason, it sounds fishy; but that is just me.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Sounds fishy to me as well. Is is possible that the phone operator was lying?

Most programs would place files in the Application Data folder, wouldn't they? IMO, no scans needed for that.

 

Any luck finding anything in the TOS mitman93?
I saw that they log IPs for six months.


[edit on 29/12/09 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Yes, I already have a program very similar to Wireshark on my computer (PeerGuardian). I plan on calling Cox again after work, and getting this whole thing straightened out. Thanks for the advice and support. Will post an update after work today!



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by ConspiracyNut23
 


Yes, unfortunately that's also all I found
Nothing about scanning hard drives though. I'm also strongly against IP monitoring, but at least THAT'S in the terms of service.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by llpoolej
 


Wait a sec. A family hired you to take a photo of their dog, but you own the rights to the picture?

WTF?
And you got pissed that they were selling silk screens of the picture they hired you to take of their dog?
WTF?!?

Sounds like a great reason not to hire a "professional photographer" to me.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Doglord
 

It's true. It's not just the USA though, most countries are signatories to the Berne Convention.

Personally, at least for photography, I think it's a scam. Many wedding photographers, for example make you pay exorbitant charges for overpriced reprints of yourself.

You could make them sign a work-for-hire type contract and the copyrights of anything they take will revert back to you. Of course, many will not agree to this.

Luckily, with the price of photography equipment, there are quite a few amateurs that are able to take really good pictures. Unfortunately, there are many calling themselves professionals, who probably shouldn't.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
reply to post by Doglord
 

It's true. It's not just the USA though, most countries are signatories to the Berne Convention.

Personally, at least for photography, I think it's a scam. Many wedding photographers, for example make you pay exorbitant charges for overpriced reprints of yourself.

You could make them sign a work-for-hire type contract and the copyrights of anything they take will revert back to you. Of course, many will not agree to this.

Luckily, with the price of photography equipment, there are quite a few amateurs that are able to take really good pictures. Unfortunately, there are many calling themselves professionals, who probably shouldn't.


Jesus, Had some photographer tried that crap with me I would have given him impromptu dental surgery.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Yep, moving your wares to an isolated machine seems a good measure.

From what I hear, setting up a seedbox on a cheap VPS works, too.

Someone who isn't me decided after an Internet outage last year that he or she would amass as large a collection of e-books as possible in the event of some sort of major Internet event. Last I heard, he or she had 50 to 60 gigs of e-books and audio books downloaded and waiting.

Must be nice, having all that info at your fingertips.

Wish I knew how he or she did it.

I heard that they kept talking about "bit torrent" and "vuze", whatever that means.

Apparently they also run some sort of operating system called Linus or Linux or something like that, so the possibility of an ISP snooping his or her system is greatly reduced.

Of course being a typical Windows retard, I have no idea what a "Linux" is or how it works.

And American Idol is on so I can't be bothered to find out.

HOORRAAAYYY karaoke reality shows!

BOOOOOOOOO to rational thought.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by Symbiote]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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Ok, update on the situation. I just finished talking to a (different) customer service agent. First, he told me that Cox does not even have the ability to remote access hard drives let alone the legality. At this point, I thought to myself there are three possibilities: A.) The first agent had LIED to me B.) The second agent is LYING to me or C.) I'm going crazy and need professional help.

So, I told the guy what the other CS representative had told me. After giving him my account password, he pulled up my account information. Finally, he had told me that Cox indeed HAD ran a scan...but it was not on my hard drive.

He told me that when Bethesda's lawyers had given them my IP as well as the names of all infringing files. They had to check my account for this claim. To do this, they scanned my recent bandwidth usage and downloads. Once confirmed that the torrent was indeed from my IP address, Cox opened the reloaded subfolder to see where each individual file would place itself in the system directory. That was why the first guy was able to know that files were located in the "Appdata" folder.

Long story short, Cox CAN NOT scan hard drives and this was a huge misunderstanding on my part. However, I'm still very weary about ISP monitoring in general and am eager to see what the future holds for the internet



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by mitman93
 

Glad to hear it was a misunderstanding.

Once in a while in the gloomy conspiracy world, we sometimes find that something isn't true. That's comforting.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by Symbiote
 


Indeed an offline computer holding all your information is the way to go.

You sure this friend isn't me?
I have like 3-4 TeraBytes of harvested information incase of an Internet outage. It is all LEGAL of course. I run Linux aswell as UNIX and Windows.



Originally posted by mitman93
((snip))

To do this, they scanned my recent bandwidth usage and downloads. Once confirmed that the torrent was indeed from my IP address, Cox opened the reloaded subfolder to see where each individual file would place itself in the system directory. That was why the first guy was able to know that files were located in the "Appdata" folder.

Long story short, Cox CAN NOT scan hard drives and this was a huge misunderstanding on my part. However, I'm still very weary about ISP monitoring in general and am eager to see what the future holds for the internet


That makes more sense. They compress the packets of each and every customer and attach it to their file. I do not know how long they keep the data though.

I think the first guy that said he scanned your "C:\" was social engineering you into admitting that the files where indeed on your computer.

You could have avoid such warnings from your ISP if you stated that the hardware they supplied you with (EG: WiFi router) could have possibly have been hacked into and some guy is using your internet. This happens all the time, it is not your fault, its the ISPs fault for providing hardware that has security vulnerabilities. That way, you don't get a warning and some invisible hacker gets the blame. The ISP would probably ask you for your MAC address, which they will be able to see in the packets of information that has passed via your telephone line, it will link your computer to this file. Remain clueless, you can alter and change your MAC address if you wish. I do it all the time. A MAC address looks like this: 00:11:22:33:44:55 (consisting of various numbers). It basically identifies your network card, the vendor, the model and if the network card was purchased with a credit card, then they can actually use the MAC address to identify you (your Credit card billing address and name etc).

Next time, state you have no such files on your PC and that maybe you could be a victim of computer fraud or identity theft. Tell them that it is highly possible this hacker is downloading illegal files via your connection in order to avoid being caught.

The ISP will "wipe your slate clean". They can't argue with that, there are holes within the law that can help people if they are aware of it. The less information you give your ISP the better. Remain clueless, no hi-tech jargon but say you watched a TV program about some guy who's internet connection was hijacked by hackers.

EDIT: Anyone (Any ISP) that says the word "AppData" is stating that you use torrents. If you say there are certain files within the AppData folder (such as movies, music, books etc), then they have you by the balls and you just basically touted on yourself. Always state there is nothing in the AppData folder apart from a few system files or user profiles. Again, act dumb. If they ask you for a copy of your registry or ask you to view your "REGEDIT" to see anything associated with the AppData folder, again, act dumb. "I see nothing".

[edit on 30/12/2009 by the_denv]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


The sad thing is...that actually did happen to my neighbor not too long ago
Someone was able to get into his router (it was easy peezy WEP encryption) and downloaded movies with torrents. He got a message from Verizon and when he told them that it wasn't him, he was off the hook!

I hate to say it but you're right, "acting dumb" or lying would have been the best thing to do in my scenario.

Right now I have PeerGuardian AND I'm using Furk (proxy torrent servers), so I feel pretty safe now lol.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Zosynspiracy
 


You really think people should be hung for stealing a horse?

[edit on 29-12-2009 by nixie_nox]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by nixie_nox]


Yes.

Rusteling was the equivalent of Benie Madoff wiping out peoples entire savings (only the people would likely starve since social services didn't exist and churche were too remote to be of help)
Stealing a persons riding horse while on a journy was pretty much a death sentance by exposure ifthey didn't kill the rider to get the horse in the first place.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by mitman93
reply to post by the_denv
 


The sad thing is...that actually did happen to my neighbor not too long ago
Someone was able to get into his router (it was easy peezy WEP encryption) and downloaded movies with torrents. He got a message from Verizon and when he told them that it wasn't him, he was off the hook!

I hate to say it but you're right, "acting dumb" or lying would have been the best thing to do in my scenario.

Right now I have PeerGuardian AND I'm using Furk (proxy torrent servers), so I feel pretty safe now lol.


LOL, oh noes! WEP is as thin as paper regarding security. Back in the day WEP took about 20minutes to gather the required IVs, now there are automated script kiddie tools that can do it automatically in as quick as 30 secs. Even WPA is vulnerable, but it is better than WEP. Tell your neighbor to use WPA2 and his passphrase should be random numbers and letters etc. Nothing in a dictionary, a non-existing random phrase.

I never used PeerGuardian but if it works for you, great


Good to hear your using proxies. ISPs still cant understand that torrents are not illegal, I could make a home movie and seed it as a torrent and an ISP would probably turn me off for just using the service (torrent programs).

[edit on 30/12/2009 by the_denv]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by the_denv

Originally posted by mitman93
reply to post by the_denv
 


The sad thing is...that actually did happen to my neighbor not too long ago
Someone was able to get into his router (it was easy peezy WEP encryption) and downloaded movies with torrents. He got a message from Verizon and when he told them that it wasn't him, he was off the hook!

I hate to say it but you're right, "acting dumb" or lying would have been the best thing to do in my scenario.

Right now I have PeerGuardian AND I'm using Furk (proxy torrent servers), so I feel pretty safe now lol.


LOL, oh noes! WEP is as thin as paper regarding security. Back in the day WEP took about 20minutes to gather the required IVs, now there are automated script kiddie tools that can do it automatically in as quick as 30 secs. Even WPA is vulnerable, but it is better than WEP. Tell your neighbor to use WPA2 and his passphrase should be random numbers and letters etc. Nothing in a dictionary, a non-existing random phrase.

I never used PeerGuardian but if it works for you, great


Good to hear your using proxies. ISPs still cant understand that torrents are not illegal, I could make a home movie and seed it as a torrent and an ISP would probably turn me off for just using the service (torrent programs).

[edit on 30/12/2009 by the_denv]


Haha this is sooo true. In fact, some free games rely on torrents for downloading their client. You even half to "agree" not to break copyright laws before installing a torrent program, which should give a hint that torrents were not originally meant for illegal acts.

As for my neighbor...now he doesn't even broadcast his SSID
and of course he has WPA2-PSK [AES] encryption now.




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