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China executes suspected mentally ill Briton.

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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In this world, there's always a battle between resources and ethics. The reality is that it costs taxpayer money to keep people in prison. China cannot afford to waste any money, with their population as big as it is.

My view on the death penalty is the same as my view on eating meat, and that is you've gotta be practical. If you don't eat animals, then they will overbreed. Likewise, we don't need to waste our resources on useless humans, unless they're making an attempt to turn their life around, and become a contributing member to society.




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by np6888
we don't need to waste our resources on useless humans, unless they're making an attempt to turn their life around, and become a contributing member to society.


Now I've read it all. What constitutes a contributing member of society? And of which society are you speaking? The one in which I have lost all faith in because a life is now as worthless to some as a penny? Is a politician who lies to his constituents a contributing member of society? Is a policeman who takes bribes a contributing member of society? The problem is the society is broken and has been for a very very very long time. The post above this says also that no matter how bad China are we should pat them on the back for killing a man who was convicted of carrying drugs... drugs which are trafficked globally by international dealers who are protected by many western governments. Don't think these shipments that come into Europe and America aren't known about. The one's who aren't paying for protection are the one's who will end up convicted and slaughtered. The one's who pay the man often have a nice easy passage in transporting their wares.

The system is broken and some of you buy into it all too easily. Taking the moral high ground is one thing but knowing when a punishment fits a crime is another. I genuinely believed that there was much more gusto and resolve in the conspiratorial world - but it seems most of the posters in this thread are happy with the laws and justifications for unnecessary deaths.

Is the human race so far devolved and brainwashed that no one really see's that there wouldn't be drug dealers if we managed our resources properly? That there wouldn't be desperate emotive crimes committed if we looked after every individuals needs as we know can be achieved with the plentiful stock provided by nature?

As long as you carry on blaming the individual for the crimes they commit you will never be doing more than promoting ignorance. That's not the ATS way is it?



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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Let's examine the facts...


The Chinese courts twice refused a free psychiatric evaluation for Shaikh and ignored the medical history presented by his GP.

(Emphasis Added)
Source: Huffington Post

The Huffington post article claims that medical history presented by Akmal Shaikh’s Doctor shows a history of mental illness. “GP” Stands for General Practitioner


In a statement issued after the execution, the Chinese Embassy said Mr Shaikh's rights "were properly respected and guaranteed" and British concerns were "duly noted and taken into consideration".

It said: "As for his possible mental illness which has been much talked about, there apparently has been no previous medical record."

(Emphasis Added)
Source: BBC

Obviously someone is not telling the truth here. The Huffington post states that Shaikh’s doctor presented evidence and the Chinese government rejected it. The Chinese government claims no record exists.


Also disturbing is that the Chinese Government refused to allow anyone to examine Mr. Shaikh to determine his mental state.


In a statement, Mr Brown said: "I condemn the execution of Akmal Shaikh in the strongest terms... I am particularly concerned that no mental health assessment was undertaken."

(Emphasis Added)
Source: BBC


The Chinese courts twice refused a free psychiatric evaluation for Shaikh and ignored the medical history presented by his GP. No evaluation was ever conducted.

(Emphasis added)
Source: Huffington Post



Akmal Shaikh was not only bipolar but also exhibited delusional behavior.


According to family members, six unrelated witnesses, his GP and a consultant forensic psychiatrist , Shaikh suffered from bipolar disorder and exhibited delusional behavior.

(Emphasis Added)
Source: Huffington Post

He lacked a criminal record and had a long history of mental illness.

Shaikh's case is unique because of two things: his lack of criminal history, and his long record of mental illness.

(Emphasis Added)
Source: Huffington Post

It is possible, that as was reported, he was duped (due to his delusional thinking) by drug traffickers into delivering drugs for them. If so the Chinese Government executed an innocent man.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by Studious]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by mckyle

You really should consider reading more than just the National Inquirer.
Here's the mortality rate for paracetamol/acetaminophen deaths:


Oh goody. Please tell me you are yet another ATS expert at everything except for reading what you are responding to. Please oh please.


Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause of liver failure in the US and the United Kingdom and the leading cause of calls to the Poison Control Centers across the US. It is estimated that acetaminophen poisoning calls exceed 100,000 per year. Studies indicate that acetaminophen overdose results in over 56,000 injuries, 2,500 hospitalizations, and an estimated 450 deaths per year.

Source

Yay!!!!!

Ok, try to stay with me here. I did not say people do not die from it, nor did I question how many people die from it. I SAID IT TAKES A LOT MORE THAN TWO PACKETS WORTH TO OVERDOSE.

You failed to respond to what I did say and that must be why we see none of my actual statement up there. Please stick to what I said, not what you think you can prove.



It's obvious that you don't even understand the difference between OTC and prescription-only.

Anyone can go into a pharmacy (or online for that matter) and purchase as much Tylenol as they want.


That is right, and then they can swallow as much as they want to. This is still far safer than me buying as much heroin as I want, obtaining my needles by nefarious means, and sticking chemicals directly into my own veins. See the BIG DIFFERENCE.


You really should consider establishing your facts before you go and ridicule/slight someone. I know that would be a novel concept to you, but perhaps you should try it in an attempt to reverse the poor reputation you already have on ATS.


LOL. That is cute that you worry about my rep. I do not. I guess if enough people are talking to you about my rep that you know what it is with all of ATS, I am doing better than you because I never hear anything about anything you say.

Now, if you are done mocking me for not having my facts straight, can I mock you for not being able to read? Would that be fair? You have failed to correct my facts and you have proven that you can respond without it actually applying to what I said.

So far, my facts still stand and it looks like you cannot read. Tell me all about my reputation.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by mckyle

Originally posted by Lillydale
Please cite a source for this as it is fallacious at best and ignorant at worst. It takes for more than a couple of packets of acetaminophen to die from an overdose.


Quote:


A toxic dose of paracetamol usually varies between 4 g in special populations and 6 g in the average person

Source
I'm sorry you're not capable of doing the elementary math, so let me help

1 paracetamol/acetaminophen tablet = 325-500 mg
X 12 per packet
= 3.9 - 6 grams

You have obviously reacted to some facts your world has never come across, and inturn you simply discard as being untrue.


LOL. Awesome. See, here in the U.S. A "packet" would have two in it. Is it my fault you failed to define packet or is it your fault that I assumed you meant what I mean by "packet."

Here, I would humbly state that I can admit that your packet and my packet are different so in that context I guess you are right. Since you already went off to tell me how wrong I am about how many people die from it a year when I never said that...I would say it is about even. Many pills come in bottles. We get two to four to a packet. That is the point of the packet, it is a one/two does shot and that is it. That is what OTC pill packets are here. Sorry they are different there. Unfortunately it does not change the fact that you went off on me about crap I never said so my desire to just politely concede went far far away. So here we go...

A packet = 2 or 4 tablets X 325mg each. My statement is as true as yours. Want your point, take it.

That gives you time to still address how using illegal needles to shoot yourself up is as safe as swallowing tablets. Then you can explain to me how you know what strength your heroin is so that you know how to properly does. I did bring that all up too.

Illegal needles.
No way to properly dose.
No idea what the contents of the drug really are.

It is one thing to try and knock down my points and that is fine. If you are going to act like everything I said is nonsense, then actually address everything I said and not what you think you can argue, as we just saw with your attempt to prove me wrong on something I never even said. Maybe you should worry about your reputation, I can worry about mine.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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[edit on 29-12-2009 by EyeOnYou]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


i dont believe this man deserved to die for his crimes but i believe in this case the mental illness card was a last ditch effort.
i have several mental illnesses and as such when i have had psychotic episodes i have been on bail for outraging public decency, assault of a police officer and criminal damage and had the charges dropped because it wasnt in the public interest for them to prosecute me.
but having a psychotic episode is a little different in my opinion to organised crime and drug smuggling.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by audas

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Well regardless of how you feel about the death penalty, I am SICK and tired of this mentally ill crap defense.

How is it a grown man, or woman can claim to be mentally ill, YET have the presence of mind to set up ellaborate drug running rings with multiple players, plan out murders down to the last detail, etc... I hear this defense a lot, but its funny how mnetally ill people only claim such AFTER their caught...again, how it must be to have the MIND to know you did wrong AFTER the fact...hmmmmmmm

As for this guys case...I am NOT buying his defense. It's called the GOT CAUGHT, think of something quick defense.


Hundreds of people are out to death all over the world every year for drug smuggling and you have never ever made a post about it - why now - oh because this time the perpetrator is British, is white, is Anglo and has put forward a defense of mental instability - PLEASE - are you fcking kidding me.

Why don't you show some integrity and honesty about the issue and fess up that you are appalled that a foreign country is allowed to apply its own laws to your own kind - that your own people are subject to the laws of foreign countries - fess up that you are appalled that you find it abhorrent that you are merely an equal to other nations and not above and beyond the barbarous laws of foreign nations.

There is simply nothing quite as vile as cultural arrogance - quite grotesque. Especially from a nation such as England with the worst track record of any nation in the modern world - seriously get a grip.

Quite ironic really when you consider the historical perspective of the UK enforcing the heroin trade upon China and killing literally millions of people through enforced drug addiction in order to maintain the balance of trade payments through the spice and tea trade - do you know what irony is ?

Hong Kong was one big drug payment to the UK.

But please, don't let me interrupt your moral indignation - perhaps you could some up something about the Indians and their use of salt or cotton mills to assuage your guilt over the genocide of millions and millions of Indians over the course of 400 years int eh most abhorrent forced slavery of an entire subcontinent - how dare they use salt.....

So in your black and white world, everybody is mentally stable then?

I suggest you go and educate yourself on the varieties of mental illnesses that plague the human mind, and try and avoid your cartoon-esque imagery of mental people somehow being incapable of thought.



HO-OH! i believe someone has a chip on their shoulder.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
His family said he was mentally ill.

If he was, there would be GP records of it, which I'm sure the foreign office would have bought to light after being asked for assistance by the family.

Guess what though - the Chinese court received no such information in the two years the case has been running.

The guy had 4kg (141 ounces) of heroin on him - as the article rightly states thats enough to kill over 26,000 people - damn near a WMD if you look at it in one perspective.

Anyone being killed is a tradgedy for their family - I can understand that, but the simple fact is that the guy broke the law, in China, and the penalty for such is death.

Their country, their system, their punishment - none of our business

Don't want to get the death penalty in China? Don't smuggle drugs.

Sounds harsh I know, but its true.



Whether any of us here an ATS agree with the death penalty or not is of no consequence. This man now has family that are standing up for him and saying he has issues and should not be punished according to the laws of the land he was caught in. They even know how and why he was making the trip to China in the first place my question now is, why the *%$@ did they let him go knowing full well he had no singing experience, I know why it's because 1. they thought he could do it and they could get some cash out of it( implying his illness was not such an illness) or 2. they were in on it hoping they could score easy cash.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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Double Post

[edit on 29-12-2009 by mckyle]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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[edit on 30-12-2009 by alien]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Forgive me Lilly,

But after seeing that you can't even identify when I have responded to your uninformed claims, I feel I must decline to engage with you.

Not to do so would be to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Forgive me Lilly,

But after seeing that you can't even identify when I have responded to your uninformed claims, I feel I must decline to engage with you.

Not to do so would be to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Forgive me Lilly,

But after seeing that you can't even identify when I have responded to your uninformed claims, I feel I must decline to engage with you.

Not to do so would be to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.






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