China executes suspected mentally ill Briton.

reply to post by Donnie Darko
you are so wrong it is not revenge , it is a deterent to others and rightly so .these drugs kill people so that makes him a murderer by proxy
china has a long history of fighting drug addiction going back as far as the boxer rebellion when the british drug trading government sent in the army to keep the opium trails open.
so there can be no excuse , if you deal in drugs in china you must face the
consequence.

So who amongst us has the inside information on this case?
I'm just wondering.
Because the family claim he was on a high when he was convinced that if he went to China he could make a record and save the world. And that he was duped into carrying the suitcase. Heck I see more delusional stuff posted on here every other day and it is certainly possible that someone with bipolar could have believed this.
On the other hand he may well have been a habitual drug smuggler.
But again, who has the inside information on here that they can be judge and jury? Do share your irrefutable sources - we would all like to know!

Let's not forget that execution is pretty final. You can't go back and say 'Oops sorry'. Those Americans who were so quick to jump on the 'Save Sue Meredith' bandwagon when an Italian court found her guilty should be thankful it was Italy not China.

Let's just pray that if we get to one world government, it won't be 'China one world government'.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by unicorn1]

Originally posted by mckyle
Yes my friend, that's true. But just a couple of packets of paracetamol ( acetaminophen) will kill you too - guaranteed! And it's a much more horrible death than overdosing on heroin.

Please cite a source for this as it is fallacious at best and ignorant at worst. It takes for more than a couple of packets of acetaminophen to die from an overdose.

Most people who take heroin don't die, as they know what dosage they need - just the same as most people who take Tylenol don't die. So saying the amount trafficked by this poor sod was enough to kill 26000 people, needs to be qualified.

So people who take tylenol take the same risks as people using inter venous drugs? The last time I checked, Tylenol was regulated. 325mg is 325mg. Can you say that about heroin? How do you know who cut it, how it was cut, etc? Tylenol is also administered in a safe manner. People do not usually resort to risking life risking infection to take tylenol, the do for heroin.

[edit on 12/29/09 by Lillydale]

Well I've read the OP several times, and can't find any reference to a " British Man " anywhere !!

reply to post by neformore


"Their country, their system, their punishment - none of our business"

Are you kidding me? A man's life was snuffed out of existence because he was obviously duped. His family of course claimed he was bi-polar as anyone heading to China on the promise of a recording contract for this song www.youtube.com... is OBVIOUSLY delusional.

It's ALL of our business as the day you're returning from some foreign country having had your bags tampered with by criminals, maybe even the baggage handlers we're in on it, you don't know, but you're damn well going to hope that someone makes it their business before you are murdered.

What you said doesn't just sound 'harsh' it was inhumane, and you just went down in my estimation.

Originally posted by mckyle
Yes my friend, that's true. But just a couple of packets of paracetamol ( acetaminophen) will kill you too - guaranteed! And it's a much more horrible death than overdosing on heroin.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Please cite a source for this as it is fallacious at best and ignorant at worst. It takes for more than a couple of packets of acetaminophen to die from an overdose.

Quote:

A toxic dose of paracetamol usually varies between 4 g in special populations and 6 g in the average person

Source
I'm sorry you're not capable of doing the elementary math, so let me help

1 paracetamol/acetaminophen tablet = 325-500 mg
X 12 per packet
= 3.9 - 6 grams

You have obviously reacted to some facts your world has never come across, and inturn you simply discard as being untrue.


[edit on 29-12-2009 by mckyle]

I'm really not sure what the fuss is.

Where was this thread two years ago when he got busted, and everyone involved in the case knew he was facing the death penalty?

The guy smuggled in 4kgs of a deadly drug, end of story. He took the risk, and got caught, and had two years to get his defence together. He failed.

Why? Because there doesn't appear to be any - I mean any - evidence whatsoever to suggest he was mentally ill. If there was, it would have been presented, and would have been widely circulated in the press. We would be seeing the evidence now.

Where is it?

The guy was a drug smuggler. A big drug smuggler. Four kilograms is not to be taken lightly.

People get executed in scores of countries for much less, and they get executed in scores of countries for smuggling in large amounts of drugs. You want to deal in that #, and go for profits at the expense of potential deaths of others, be prepared to face the music.

I am not neccessarily pro-execution, but I do know how to respect the law and culture of any country, especially when the truth is the harsh penalties actually serve as a solid deterrent to save lives, and clean up society.

All you bleeding hearts...ok...so, let's say a Brit goes to the US and takes out a gun and shoots dead 10 random people. He then faces the death penalty.

Oh...but boooh bleedin' hoo...they don't have the death penalty in the UK for mass murder! So let's all cry foul and bash the US for killing a potentially mentally ill mass-murderer! Makes sense, right??

In the OP's case, the drug smuggler, the family, the UK government, the UK medical authorities - the family, the public, and everyone on this thread - had two years to plead their case. The Chinese listened for two years, yet still no clear-cut evidence of his apparent last-minute plea, is available...for anyone!

As I said, I am not saying the death penalty is right in all cases, but...in the eyes of the law he was a heavy, big-time drug peddler who got caught with 4kgs, and had 2 years to prove his supposed 'innocence'. No doubt a huge percentage of criminals plea innocent time and time again, coming up with anything and everything to weasel out of their crime.

Spare a thought for the possible lives of dozens, if not hundreds, of people - and the well-being of their families - that have been spared because this criminal's wares didn't hit the streets.

Originally posted by Lillydale
Please cite a source for this as it is fallacious at best and ignorant at worst. It takes for more than a couple of packets of acetaminophen to die from an overdose.

Well you have been debunked on this one, but let me add this from Wikipedia:

In England and Wales an estimated 41,200 cases of paracetamol poisoning occurred in 1989 to 1990, with a mortality of 0.40%. It is estimated that 150 to 200 deaths and 15 to 20 liver transplants occur as a result of poisoning each year in England and Wales. Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance, accounting for more than 100,000 calls, as well as 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 458 deaths due to acute liver failure per year. A study of cases of acute liver failure between November 2000 and October 2004 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the USA found that paracetamol was the cause of 41% of all cases in adults, and 25% of cases in children.

Note that majority of these are non-intentional OD's, just people taking painkillers in what seems a reasonable quantity. If you eat a whole pack you are probably done for, and it's going to be a nasty, nasty death. Slow and extremely painful.



[edit on 29-12-2009 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by Lillydale

So people who take tylenol take the same risks as people using inter venous drugs? The last time I checked, Tylenol was regulated. 325mg is 325mg. Can you say that about heroin? How do you know who cut it, how it was cut, etc?
[edit on 12/29/09 by Lillydale]

You really should consider reading more than just the National Inquirer.
Here's the mortality rate for paracetamol/acetaminophen deaths:

Acetaminophen overdose is the leading cause of liver failure in the US and the United Kingdom and the leading cause of calls to the Poison Control Centers across the US. It is estimated that acetaminophen poisoning calls exceed 100,000 per year. Studies indicate that acetaminophen overdose results in over 56,000 injuries, 2,500 hospitalizations, and an estimated 450 deaths per year.

Source

Originally posted by Lillydale
Tylenol is also administered in a safe manner.
[edit on 12/29/09 by Lillydale]

It's obvious that you don't even understand the difference between OTC and prescription-only.

Anyone can go into a pharmacy (or online for that matter) and purchase as much Tylenol as they want.

You really should consider establishing your facts before you go and ridicule/slight someone. I know that would be a novel concept to you, but perhaps you should try it in an attempt to reverse the poor reputation you already have on ATS.


Mode Edit: changed bb code to fix page skew

[edit on 12/29/2009 by JacKatMtn]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by mckyle]

Isn't this world beautiful with different cultures, opinions, thoughts and yet there are so many among us wanting that the whole world act and think exactly as what they want, amazing.....

Just try to clear up your over biased minds for 1 short minute and accept the reality that a man regardless of his nationality has broken a law in a country with a particular penalty, and being convicted for over two years ago showing that he is guilty. The fact was not being disputed of drug smuggling, everyone agree on this point. Two years have passed, at last minute some smart money-hungry lawyer came up with a brilliant idea of using “mentally illness" to still win the case and get this oooo so sad and sick man free. Hmmmmm, wow, this reminds me of funny stories like grannies getting millions USD compensated for being burned by hot coffee bought from the big evil capitalistic M, or some other poster's Aussie story. Unfortunately for this man, China is not a country buying these kinds of crap, especially when it is obvious simply a defense tactic used in desperation to still get the man free. Be responsible and accept the consequences of breaking the law in China, if he did not want to get the death penalty, why not just smuggle some drugs in The Netherlands or some other banana republic where you can get free for being "mentally ill" ;-) He took the risk of getting a much higher profit in China, regardless of either hard currencies OR being a famous superstar, so accept the penalty for being caught. Ironically he is to some extend a "famous star" for a few moments, tomorrow when this story cool down, I wonder how many of his hardline defenders can even uberhaupt remember his name, IF you do know his name ;-)

[edit on 29-12-2009 by yiersan]

I seriously cant believe this is still running? At the end of the day its their laws he chose to break them, got caught and paid the price its as simple as that. If he hadnt been caught how many people could he have potentially killed? Someones kid, brother or sister? Serves him right its just a shame we dont have the same laws here in the uk.

Originally posted by unicorn1

Let's just pray that if we get to one world government, it won't be 'China one world government'.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by unicorn1]

Amen to that. I find it sad, some of the hateful posts on this site recently. I don't condone drug smuggling but something about this whole incident smells fishy. My prayers to his family.

reply to post by yiersan


So whose heads should roll for the increase in opium production under Afghan coalition occupation? Isn't that far more likely to be the cause of death to some hapless downbeat drug addict who only uses because its a fu**ed up world and it offers them an out for a while. Why isn't it the user's discretion as to whether they take a gamble with their lives or not? This is about a man being duped into carrying drugs, not an international mastermind criminal. It's pretty obvious to everyone with half a brain.

And to those who are saying the UK is too lenient or liberal - gtfo and go live somewhere you can be punished severely if you don't like it. You really think prisons are filled because of individual failings or because of societies failings as a whole? And isn't the measure of liberalism based on your own personal moral foundations? If you can condone the death, or in any way the harm of another human being for any reason then it's not your fault, it's the environment you were brought into - but if you know that personal crimes are committed often out of desperation and you know that your governments and commercial crimes are far more abhorable and you still condone this you might as well roll over and die, what else are you contributing other than more unnecessary hate and ignorance?

reply to post by mr-lizard


You don't know what it proves anymore? It proves drug smugling is bad unless you think it's okay and drug smuglers should be set free.

reply to post by mr-lizard


In the last days no one will be able to distinguish right from wrong and shall believe the lie thinking it be the truth.

I'm using 3:22 One reason because Holy Spirit knows my distaste for one organization called Skull and Bones Chapter 322 and puts the numbers in the form of 3:22 and 2:23 everywhere I look. (time clocks purchases, 2nd down and 23 yards to go watching football, 3rd down and 22, synchronistic very similar to 11:11 stuff) so I will continue and speak my fathers truth.
"

Genesis 3 verse 22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

The need to be RIGHT and not see your own wrong's is what killed us all.
Had you eaten from the tree of life youd think you were RIGHT for eternity...scary thought indeed.



Revelations 3 verse 22
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."


Genesis 2verse 23
23Then the man said,

"This at last is(B) bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was(C) taken out of Man
Men...We all know most the primal reasons we fight is for women to mate with and property riches to conquer. We dress it up as harmless but this is the basic root.

Revelations 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

This has been written first to the state and those in power in high places within the church, corporations, leaders worldwide (dont want the USA to think Im picking only on them )..2nd it is a message to those that follow the wicked masters and have formed their false beliefs rarely taking into account their own personal wrong doings.

Do I have false beliefs...of course. Im just a beatin down raggamuffin with flaws galore. I just love to see my real dad kick the crap out of the ones inflicting harm but that is wrong as well. Because he is gracious to show me mercy and overlook my wrongs so I must pray for the strength to do the same toward mine enemy.

regardless of what he done or his mental state.
Akmal Shaikh, 53,
it makes me sqirm when i see headlines about so called brits when they have names like that.

brits are anglo saxon with names like kev or sebastian.

i mean its fine in other places like australia and america where the populaces are made up of 300 years of immegration but its political correctness gone mad to descibe someone with this name
Akmal Shaikh, 53, as british.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by billy no mates.]

reply to post by billy no mates.


What's wrong with him being British. I don't often find cause to attack people here, but you sir are a racist bigot - if your post is serious. Mod's do as you please with this.

There's a lot more of us - Anglo Saxon Brit's that is - who are not at all proud of what Britain stands for after centuries of the same kind of attitudes you displayed in that post. Why is this man not just a human being? would you feel more sympathy or empathy for the family if he was white? What about all the Irish forced to work in Britain's sweat shops of the Victorian era... are their descendants equally less British than him?

St George was a Palestinian.

im not racist as i live comfortably along side many other differing nationals such is our society made up of these days.

and you ranting racist will not stop most white anglo saxon brits thinking exactly the same.

but being born in britain or not does not make you british it just makes you born or resident in britain.

british men are white anglo saxons as i said with names like kev and sebastian.

i havent said they shouldnt be here .. what i said was it makes me sqirm to hear them described as british.

they should be known as
british0pole
british-indian
bitish-pakistani
etc etc. if born in britain .

[edit on 29-12-2009 by billy no mates.]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by billy no mates.]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Well regardless of how you feel about the death penalty, I am SICK and tired of this mentally ill crap defense.

How is it a grown man, or woman can claim to be mentally ill, YET have the presence of mind to set up ellaborate drug running rings with multiple players, plan out murders down to the last detail, etc... I hear this defense a lot, but its funny how mnetally ill people only claim such AFTER their caught...again, how it must be to have the MIND to know you did wrong AFTER the fact...hmmmmmmm

As for this guys case...I am NOT buying his defense. It's called the GOT CAUGHT, think of something quick defense.

So in your black and white world, everybody is mentally stable then?

I suggest you go and educate yourself on the varieties of mental illnesses that plague the human mind, and try and avoid your cartoon-esque imagery of mental people somehow being incapable of thought.

And in YOUR black and white world, as long as it's in China any criminal suspects must be mentally unstable or anything other than sane, liable to their actions then? Hypocrisy much?

Most Chinese welcome this decision. And I will give you some background and bring some Chinese perspective to you: in China the law system generally favor foreigners to the point of ridiculousness. Local people were treated like 2nd citizens for dozens of years, and people are not happy about this. Foreigners when commit a crime will either rarely be charged, or if they were, will receive a much shorter sentence and be sent to special foreigner-only penitentiaries with much better living conditions. You are welcome to visit any big Chinese cities and ask the local folks, local police stations to see if this is true and if they are happy about it.

How often do you hear foreign drug dealers receive death sentence, despite their vast numbers in China? Rarely if at all. In this guy's case, he could got off easy had he not be greedy and had he brought only 200 grams or so. The government given their double standards towards Chinese and Non-Chinese, would just lock him up for a few years at most, while happily censoring the news as to not anger the local residents. But no he had 4000 grams, and 50 grams was punishable by death in China. And the court did review the materials British authorities submitted and a conclusion has been made that the materials submitted is not sufficient to support that his family members or him had prior history of mental illness, and the materials submitted do not meet the requirement for a mental illness evaluation. However it's a tragedy when someone (not the British guy, but generally speaking) totally innocent gets caught with planted heroins, but in most cases there's little one can do to fight. The only thing you can do is really stay on your guard. Inflexible laws are inflexible but I can see how this often times can be a tough call.

www.bravenewtraveler.com...

I'm sick and tired of you people impulsively and blindly seizing moral high grounds whenever you can even if the moral in this case clearly is not on your side. No matter how #ty the Chinese government can be at many instances, when it actually properly handled a crime, the people will welcome it.


[edit on 29-12-2009 by nighinfinite]

Originally posted by Pr0t0
you just went down in my estimation.

Sorry 'bout that.

I call things as I see them, and sometimes that doesn't run eye-to-eye with people.