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Sorry, Vegans: Brussels Sprouts Like to Live, Too

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 


Look my only problem with vegetarianism and veganism is that to produce the crops they require you have to kill more animals. Larger fields of crops means more pests like pigeons and cute little bunnies and without being culled these creatures will completely destroy entire fields of crops. Simply planting more won't help either because their populations will simply grow larger and larger, eating more and more.

So i help cull these animals and i eat them and i won't apologise for it because without the culing of them you wouldn't have food to eat and you should remember that. To get your lovely vegetables, animals have to die. Oh and before you suggest building fences consider the cost and sheer amount of raw materials required to fence millions of acres.




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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I don't even know that YOU feel pain except that if I kicked you in the head, you'd probably cry.



Make up your mind Hypocrites. Say it like Hippocrates.

One minute you say we cant know what plants feel without being them. You back this up by saying you dont even know if I feel pain. Then another minute later you claim there are people with brains who cant feel pain.

How do you know without being them?

It would be nice if your so called logic was.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by watcher73
do you have evidence that plants have nervous systems or brains


There are animals without nervous systems or brains. So, I have no idea why this arguement is even put out there to debate whether plants like to live?

Jellyfish for one.


Jellyfish do not have a brain or central nervous system, but rather have a loose network of nerves, located in the epidermis, which is called a "nerve net."


en.wikipedia.org...

Who's to say that plants don't have some kind of different system than nerves and brains? And does this make them less than an animal? Would you eat a jelly since it has no nervous system nor brain?



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by spinkyboo
 


ok first veganism of any kind i think is totaly unnessecary why limit the potential for nurishment to plant material only it seems pointless when you think of all the other tasty things out there to eat and what happens if all plant life on the planet is extinguished by some kind of alien viral infection will you die for your ideals i think not. not eating something because you can see into its eyes is stupid does the lion care about that when it eats the young child lost in the savanah NO what about the dingo when it steals a baby out of a tent NO or the python that strangles and eats the sleeping 7 year old girl in her own home NO its called the food chain and like it or not we are in it so man up eat that steak and yes its true if you have the right equiptment you can here plants emit noises when they are in pain enjoy your baby peas



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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You all can ignore my post. I say it again: EAT YOUR DOG and start feeling.

Also the most of you seem not to know:

A Cow's life ends in Week 15-18, later you can't eat the meat anymore.
A Country like Germany with 87.000.000 People eat 4.000.000 Cow's a Year.
A Cow needs (age - 18 Weeks = 200Kg) 2000 Kg of Soja.
Makes a total of 2000 x 4.000.000 = 8.000.000 Tons of Soja only for Germany in one Year. And only for Cows to Eat.

And now - you feel bad about "EAT YOUR DOG" - If only one of you have to butch an animal, you would be a vergetarian tomorrow.


[edit on 29-12-2009 by cushycrux]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 


Look my only problem with vegetarianism and veganism is that to produce the crops they require you have to kill more animals. Larger fields of crops means more pests like pigeons and cute little bunnies and without being culled these creatures will completely destroy entire fields of crops. Simply planting more won't help either because their populations will simply grow larger and larger, eating more and more.

So i help cull these animals and i eat them and i won't apologise for it because without the culing of them you wouldn't have food to eat and you should remember that. To get your lovely vegetables, animals have to die. Oh and before you suggest building fences consider the cost and sheer amount of raw materials required to fence millions of acres.

It costs more to maintain animals than plants, concentrated animal food costs more, just the food for these cretures so you could eat them costs a fortune. There is a diet mixed with all sorts of cereals. They eat more than you. The field for growing animal food, how about that one, I bet there is a fence.

Not counting you have to get them to the vet, it costs, they even drink more water than the plants. You can even get of the hook with plants if it starts to rain. Animals need fresh water

And here it is.


wiki.answers.com...

the average dairy cow eats between 3 and 5 percent of their body weight in one day! that equals out to about 60 pounds of food per day depending on the size of the cow


So more fences neded for one cow than for one human.
Hey if you eat 60 pounds a day you will get sick, it's bad for you.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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DP removed

[edit on 29-12-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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And one Thing on toppic:

You can eat 1 Kilo of Soja. Or you can eat 1 Kilo of Meat, but 1 KG of meat needs 10 kg of soja to "grow". Hmmmm, whats now better for the "consciousness" plants?




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by watcher73
do you have evidence that plants have nervous systems or brains


There are animals without nervous systems or brains. So, I have no idea why this arguement is even put out there to debate whether plants like to live?

Jellyfish for one.


Jellyfish do not have a brain or central nervous system, but rather have a loose network of nerves, located in the epidermis, which is called a "nerve net."


en.wikipedia.org...

Who's to say that plants don't have some kind of different system than nerves and brains? And does this make them less than an animal? Would you eat a jelly since it has no nervous system nor brain?


I have no idea why you posted this argument. Whether or not some animals have brains or nervous systems or not is totally irrelevant to plants. I have even stated that plants may have something different. If you read the thread youd know that. Youd also know that Im not a vegetarian.

So hooray to you. You went and discovered that jellyfish have nerve nets. You cant tell us whether they feel pain or not and have contributed nothing to either side of the debate.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
===============================================
Being brain dead (in a comma) makes you a vegtable. If that were the case one could come and cut your hand and you would not feel it, wonder why, because no brain, no pain, no game.
===============================================


Your poem just reminded of this thread...

Guy was in a coma for 23 yrs , paralyzed but completely aware.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And this here..

Doctors said the woman was dead? No way she could have been aware?
So why was she?

Pam Reynolds

Funny how some things can be aware when they appear not to be...



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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The whole problem with this thread is that the OP failed to understand where objective science ended and the subjective scientists opinion began.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by watcher73
So hooray to you. You went and discovered that jellyfish have nerve nets. You cant tell us whether they feel pain or not and have contributed nothing to either side of the debate.


I would say ANY reaction to any form of touch would be an indication to being able to "feel" pain or not. Animals as well as plants both have this reactionary response.

As far as people saying it takes so much food to feed the animals. Well, what happens when we stop killing the animals? They live......and need to eat more.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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only way to be "true" to the "movement" is to recycle your self, poo snot urine nails, you name it

i my self am in the ideology that if you can kill and butcher it you damn well are priviliged and obligated to eat it aswell.

most people are in the below a foot group of eaters in reality , and should only it that way to.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by watcher73
So hooray to you. You went and discovered that jellyfish have nerve nets. You cant tell us whether they feel pain or not and have contributed nothing to either side of the debate.


I would say ANY reaction to any form of touch would be an indication to being able to "feel" pain or not. Animals as well as plants both have this reactionary response.


So every time the wind blows basically, youre in pain.

An obvious lie and lack of thought.


As far as people saying it takes so much food to feed the animals. Well, what happens when we stop killing the animals? They live......and need to eat more.


lol i cant even respond to this nonsense



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by watcher73
So hooray to you. You went and discovered that jellyfish have nerve nets. You cant tell us whether they feel pain or not and have contributed nothing to either side of the debate.


I would say ANY reaction to any form of touch would be an indication to being able to "feel" pain or not. Animals as well as plants both have this reactionary response.

As far as people saying it takes so much food to feed the animals. Well, what happens when we stop killing the animals? They live......and need to eat more.


Are you Homer Simpson or what? Are you now start trolling or what?




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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Maybe this is the problem. We have far to less Zombies!




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Realy need to eat this every #ing day?! Come on.



And he will butch it! You never! See the ears? It's allready a burger.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by gusan
reply to post by pepsi78
 


Boiling water is a physics reaction, we are talking about bacterial reaction, about a plant recognising a specific signal or individual as evil the moment

It's just like a biological computer, it does not need to feel pain, joy. It just is. It's not the plant reacting, it's the cells in the plant. There is no uplink for the cells to link to a higher level to form the notion of awarnes.
It's just programed to do that, programming languege is complex is it not?
it will identify, create but it will not feel.

Do you think your DNA is self aware? Can you feel your DNA talk to you?
DNA code is very complex, but alone it can't produce awarenes.

Smart is not awarenes. All you do is provide information on identification and reaction. What none of you did is provide infomation on the cells, how they work and why they feel. All I see is "they feel, they identify without any explenation why. It's like saying , did you see that? but failing to explain it.

Right on the subject it seems, on topic, here is a poem made by me
Most funny thing, here it is.
===============================================
Being brain dead (in a comma) makes you a vegtable. If that were the case one could come and cut your hand and you would not feel it, wonder why, because no brain, no pain, no game.
===============================================


[edit on 29-12-2009 by pepsi78]


A person's brain would appear to be a highly complex computer. Pain is just a reaction. I don't think anybody really knows what awareness really is, although everybody seems to recognize it when they have it.


-rrr



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by pantherstar
 

Now now, how many cases can you pull out of the bucket?
Maybe they were part brain dead, there are cases where some part of the brain isis left active.There is partial comma you know, where part of the brain is left active. I guess this makes it safe for you to have surgery without going to sleep because acording to you it's the same thing.

What is the point of surgery and sleep, it's making you a vegtable so you won't feel anything. Because sleeping makes it better, even better is if you are a plant, think about it, no brains at all, no pain.

Now I wonder how many cases I could pull out of my bucket VS yours.
I think I would have a land slide of milions, and if this were an election I would win.


[edit on 29-12-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
It costs more to maintain animals than plants, concentrated animal food costs more, just the food for these cretures so you could eat them costs a fortune. There is a diet mixed with all sorts of cereals. They eat more than you. The field for growing animal food, how about that one, I bet there is a fence.


You completely ignore the fact that to maintain crops you have to kill a lot of animals, so why not eat these pest species? Oh and i don't eat meat that takes a lot to maintain, for example i don't eat beef. In fact i don't eat much meat as i agree that people should eat less of it for the very reason that it can take more space to grow. Chickens though take very little resources to maintain. They can even be raised in amongst crops to help reduce insect pests.

Do you know how many bunnies there are hopping around UK fields in the summer months? Estimates around around 300 million. Have you any clue what would happen if we did not cull these? Or hey lets say you build fences around ever acre of farmland (at a cost of billions and massive resource usage to maintain) you still have to deal with flying pests like pigeons. I'm sorry but if you eat anything then you contribute to the death of some animal or other, either directly or indirectly.

By eating more crops more animals have to be culled but people like yourself like to ignore that simple fact.


Originally posted by pepsi78

Not counting you have to get them to the vet, it costs, they even drink more water than the plants. You can even get of the hook with plants if it starts to rain. Animals need fresh water

And here it is.


wiki.answers.com...

the average dairy cow eats between 3 and 5 percent of their body weight in one day! that equals out to about 60 pounds of food per day depending on the size of the cow


So more fences neded for one cow than for one human.
Hey if you eat 60 pounds a day you will get sick, it's bad for you.



Again i don't eat cows
I am in full support that people should eat more grains and pulses however I would happily argue that meat is important for efficient functioning of the human body, which btw is why vegans are often said to be at higher risk for anemia, B12 difficieny and even osteoporosis compared to moderate meat eaters (note moderate not high). It also explains why vegan and vegetarian body builders are far smaller than meat eating ones.



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