Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Hi Moonman, welcome to ATS! I always thought fundamentalists were pro-israel. Are you sure you're one?
Anyhow, read my signature. LOL. We may meet here again. Enjoy your stay.

Haha, most tend to be lol. Hmm, I need my own signature and display picture now.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous. I agree though to an extent about everything else you have said.

You do realize there isn't a such thing as a "Jewish race," don't you? Jews are practitioners of Judaism.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous.

Certainly, the only begotten Son of God, but born of Man, and God Himself even prepared His coming specifically within the House of David, centuries before Jesus' birth on Earth.

That is to say, God chose the Jews to receive Christ's coming. Specifically chose the Jews, intentionally cleansed and purified the bloodline to receive the Son of God.

So, Jesus was born of a divinely selected and groomed Jewish heritage. Jesus was a Jew.

Not blasphemy, unless you consider the entire Old Testament blasphemous, as well.



— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

I mean, Christianity is, fundamentally, an offshoot of Judaism, inasmuch as Jesus Christ was a Jew and taught Jewish orthodoxy.

Uh, erm, Christ was by no means an orthodox Jew...

Pls explain what you are thinking here. Jesus never used the phrase "Orthodox Jew" to describe himself, but in all respects, Jesus adhered meticulously to Hebrew law, incl ceremonial law. This is a key aspect to his ministry: that he broke no law. His ministry was the fulfillment of the law...not rote adherence to dogma without meaning, but a demonstration of God's righteousnes and purpose in giving the law.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5: 17-18).

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Uh, erm, Christ was by no means an orthodox Jew...

My quote was "Jesus taught Jewish orthodoxy," which he certainly did. He also taught new and disturbing things which turned the orthodoxy against Him.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous. I agree though to an extent about everything else you have said.

You do realize there isn't a such thing as a "Jewish race," aren't you? Jews are practitioners of Judaism.

They are their own race too, with unique genetic markers.

Originally posted by Moonman1111

They are their own race too, with unique genetic markers.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is!

Proving once and for all that a fundamentalist christian should NEVER rely on their fleeting grasp of science ... it's like oil and holy water.

Yikes ...

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
He also taught new and disturbing things which turned the orthodoxy against Him.

— Doc Velocity

Well, we are in accordance with that much.

Originally posted by Moonman1111

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous. I agree though to an extent about everything else you have said.

You do realize there isn't a such thing as a "Jewish race," aren't you? Jews are practitioners of Judaism.

They are their own race too, with unique genetic markers.

Right, just as I mentioned a couple of posts up. The House of David, one of the 12 Tribes of Israel, was specifically chosen to receive Christ's coming, and their laws of cleanliness and breeding were specifically intended to cleanse the bloodline.

Hence, a distinct bloodline, a distinct race.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous.

Okay I am sorry to seem to be throwing out so many questions, but you raise some interesting things and I guess you came today prepared to write. What do you mean "the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew'"? Do you mean some use "the argument" to support political Israel? Because Moon, Jesus was a Jew!!! Direct lineage from King David and the New Test goes to great lengths to establish this geneology as the messiah was prophecized to come from the house of David.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Just wondering how any Christian can be anti-Israel, the modern home of the Jews?

I mean, Christianity is, fundamentally, an offshoot of Judaism, inasmuch as Jesus Christ was a Jew and taught Jewish orthodoxy. Regardless of what the Biblical Jews did to Christ, he forgave them their worst transgressions — which no doubt included condemning him and sentencing him to a barbarous death.

I'm a Christian, as well (of the Lutheran clan), and I even think that Christ was a sword (just as Christ described himself in the Gospel of Luke) intended to cleave away the unholy crap and lies and barbarism with which Mankind surrounds himself.

But I'm not anti-Israel nor anti-anything else, for that matter. Christianity isn't about saving us from the world, it's about embracing the world in spite of its wickedness.

It's about forgiveness, not condemnation.

— Doc Velocity

Hey Doc, no offense, but you are a little misguided on this issue of the world. Yes, God wants to reconcile individual people to himself, and redeem them OUT of the world. He is by no means friendly towards the world system or the "worldly" practices that have taken the world captive.

Here is a verse to back that up:

James 4:1 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Just to set things straight with your particular notions on how God feels about the world system.

"FUNDAMENTALIST, n. One in whom something is fundamentally wrong, most commonly lack of reasoning ability and vicious intolerance toward those not sharing the fundamentalist's delusion. Thus, fundamentalists are especially intolerant of those able to draw obvious conclusions from observed facts, those who refuse to seek shelter in comforting falsehoods, and those who wish to lead their own lives." Chaz Bufe, from " The American Heretics Dictionary."

"Christ rode an ass, but now asses ride on Christ". Heinrich Heine, From "The Devil". Sums it up for me. Have fun.

Originally posted by pumpkinorange

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Also, I see the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew' rather than the begotten son of God to be blasphemous.

Okay I am sorry to seem to be throwing out so many questions, but you raise some interesting things and I guess you came today prepared to write. What do you mean "the argument of 'Jesus was a Jew'"? Do you mean some use "the argument" to support political Israel? Because Moon, Jesus was a Jew!!! Direct lineage from King David and the New Test goes to great lengths to establish this geneology as the messiah was prophecized to come from the house of David.

Now, in Israel there are two general groups of Jews: there are Torah observant Jews that believe God will set things straight once the Messiah comes, and there are Zionists that believe they have the right to force Israel's dominance on the world, and who are NOT Torah observant.

It is the Zionists who are mainly responsible for all the current bad "Jewish" behaviors, not the guys who are studying the Torah in the synagogues. The Zionist agenda is vastly different from those who truly try to follow God's instructions.

The modern state of Israel is mainly a result of the Zionist's schemes during and after WWII. It is evident, however, that some kind of divine assistance is being given to them, since many of their victories seem to have been against tremendous odds.

This, however, does not mean that God approves of the current situation on the basis of it being good, but it could also be that he is allowing, and even helping, mankind to "reap what has been sown," and all for the purpose of letting mankind find out once and for all what happens when we try to "go it alone," as the story of the Garden of Eden so vividly portrays.

After all, if one reads the book of Revelation, it becomes quite evident that God allows man to come to the very brink of destruction before He steps in and sets things straight.


[edit on 28-12-2009 by downisreallyup]

Those who have doubts of Jewish genetic markers should read up on the "lost tribe of Israel," regarding the fairly recent genetic science on the subject.

The Lemba people are concentrated in Zimbabwe. Some researchers consider them the "lost tribe of Israel," based on DNA samples taken from their Buba clan.

The Buba's genetic markers point to a distinct kinship between them and the Jewish priesthood in Israel and around the world.

How could these tribal people in Zimbabwe be genetically linked to the Jewish people unless there was a distinct set of genetic markers that the Jews alone carry?

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 12/28/2009 by Doc Velocity]