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Identification with the dream body and Identification with the ego

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posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:26 PM
Just read these first two paragraphs unless you are interested further:

The Post got long, I basically made the assertion that you can compare identification with the dream body to identification with the Ego. It's hard to wake up from a nightmare because the fear gets you so identified with the dream body. Nightmares and any dreams that make you heavily identify with the dream or dream body may be necessary because they keep you asleep when you would otherwise have a hard time sleeping, it's almost a physical necessity to a dreaming mind. I have found that these nightmares most often occur when I am anxious, having trouble sleeping. Not just nightmares, but nightmares that specifically identify you with the dream body or dream situation. A werewolf running at you randomly is a nightmare, but you aren't identified, it's just a phantom without a story and true dreamscape behind it.

What does that mean for the Ego? Well strong identification is required in dreaming only when the body is having a hard time sleeping. So strong identification with the Ego would only be required with a spirit who is having trouble doing whatever it is a spirit does when it enters this world. Identification with ego might just be a symptom of a troubled soul. That begins to sound very redundant, everyone knows that, right? Yes but we are using dreams as the metaphor, something everyone does. Also, what I'm saying is that it becomes as helpful to an adult Ego as a nightmare is to a child, it keeps both sleeping. If the child wakes up, he loses sleep. If the adult "wakes up" in the wrong state of spirit, he perhaps loses his mind, or his confidence.


Long version:

I've begun to notice that when I have trouble going to sleep, usually anxious on Sundays, I always have the worst dreams. I usually dream I am sitting in my bed and cannot go to sleep, that I'm not tired at all, and I am sure I will be exhausted tomorrow. I often argue with people at the top of my lungs in these dreams. Run around straining my muscles in exertion. It is a trip down dysfunction lane, full of making every mistake possible.

Why would the mind do this? I begin to believe that all of those things identify me with my dream body, the dream situation. Much like suffering identifies us with the Ego. Fear of not being able to sleep, physical exertion, shouting matches. I used to think that if I overexerted in a dream, it would all but instantly wake up and lose the dream. That's not true. Mental excitement, when you are thinking totally outside of what's happening, "Wow I am dreaming, Wow I am flying, etc." That's what wakes you up, that thought from outside the dream that is sort of observing and commentating. But physical exertion by itself, if you are identified with the dream, only makes the dream stronger. Which is good, if you want the dream to last. I recently was in a dream very bored with my family on a peaceful night, and kept it going by flexing and swinging my arms at my sides.

So in a way dreams are there to keep us sleeping, they distract you from outside noises, your own breath, your own pain. This may be why it's so difficult to wake up from nightmares when you are young. The fear has you distracted, identified with the situation before you so much. You usually can't reason most of the times in dreams which is why you often don't realize you are dreaming even when something impossible happens. Most of the times you go lucid it is on the occasion that your logic is working in tandem with the dream.

And during that nightmare, you think something evil is occuring to you against your will. Really, it's your mind creating a situation that you will identify with, and you will stay asleep during. Especially for kids. Think about how junky some kids are. I was pretty junky as a kid. Could eat candy forever, play video games forever. The body and the mind could not sleep without some serious nightmares to get us identified with the dream body instead of our real bodies, which were probably btw twitching from the overdose of sugar and our minds in overdrive from video games.

Identification with ego may be similar to this. It could be a protection of some kind. Almost as if the people who are heavily identified with the ego have some problems occuring spiritually, and they really need that identification to "stay" on this level. Without the ego, they would begin to wake up and lose their minds. On the other hand, you have those who are more spiritually relaxed and inclined, in worlds we cannot see or reach, they don't have so much need for the Ego. Their spirit bodies "sleep" or rest peacefully with few problems, and so they need no ego in life to balance it out.

posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:27 PM
Also should be factored on top of that that most dreams and nightmares are not recalled. So you have this thing that keeps you sleeping and it's rarely recalled. Dream Journalers, Lucid Dreamers are easlily less than 10% of the population. If a dream were never remembered it would be the perfect sleep medicine.

Much of what happens with the ego is not recalled either, people rarely know why they get so bothered about pointless things.

posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:50 PM
Hey, Interesting string of thoughts, dreams are dope....Why the focus on the negative? If I had to say, I've completely lost myself in dreams of intrigue/ somewhat positively themed, more than terror/nightmare scenarios.

Also, do you mean ego like Freud would mean, or more as a tendency towards narcissism??


posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 10:16 PM
Dreams of intrigue should do the same thing, so maybe it's not just nightmares. As long as you are chasing something, a plot, something you lost, etc. Almost always, as long as you have something to worry about losing or gaining, whether it's getting to something good or running away from something bad, the dream keeps going.

I refer to Ego as the identification with the self and your thoughts. That thing that makes your feelings get hurt and makes you want "more."

I wrote this because I'm beginning to realize what dreams do when you are having a hard time sleeping. Most people remember their dreams under perfect conditions, when they are trying, when they want to. When they are well restedd, When they want something cool to happen, when they have the journal ready. After a while of solid dream recall, I begin to recall what happens on the worst of nights, where you dread tomorrow and are anxious in the moment - listless nightmares that are probably most often forgotten.

As far as the positive, I'd say that doesn't exactly occur on nights it's difficult to sleep - maybe on nights you needed to catch up on sleep.

You raised some good points. It really helps the theory because It wasn't really about the nightmares, it was about the identification with the dream body. A nightmare is a sure way to create identification, worry, anger. Identification is the key word here, and I spent too much time on the negative, the nightmare, yes.

posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 11:59 PM
I always thought dreams were a great example of how reality fundamentally works.

Drawing enough awareness into your dreams so as to become aware that you are dreaming and control your dreams is very difficult, but possible. Doing the same thing here in the physical, I believe is still possible but even more difficult as it requires a much greater amount of awareness and realization. Our subconscious gives us our own limitations.

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