One nation under Allah. Would it be that bad?

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things. 2.256

if someone kills another person-unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth-it is as if he had murdered all mankind..." 5:32

[However] They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book there is an upright community who recite the revelation of God during the night and fall prostrate before Him. They believe in God and the Last Day, enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil, and vie with one another in good works. They are of the righteous and whatever good they do, its reward will not be denied them. God knows those who fear [Him]. 3:113-115

if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. 22:40

that verse above means Muslims shouldn't destroy or harm churches, synagogues, etc because God is worshipped there.

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall myself be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

First off, I have to say that technically Allah is not a "name for God". Allah is actually the Arabic word for God. It literally means "the God", but it is not his "name". In Arabic, names are actually attributes, and some of Allah's names are: gracious, merciful, redeemer, omniscient, etc.

Funny thing you posted this, actually I had been an American (white) atheist my entire life, and recently converted to Islam. I converted because there is an intricate numerical code in the Quran that proves it wasn't written by man, but that is besides the point.

As a Muslim, I have to say that majority of Islam is severely ass-backwards and screwed up. They follow the fabricated 'hadiths', or "narrations" that are attributed to Muhammad, and make laws and morals based off of those, instead of their own holy book: the Quran.

I guarantee you that ALL of the screwed up aspects of Islam do not come from the Quran, but from the fabricated narrations attributed to Muhammad.

The good news is, there is a growing movement called "Quran Alone Islam" that is spreading, mostly throughout western nations.

I'm not a fan of any religious organisation though I gotta say a big EF you to all the haters out there. But yeah I suppose the world on the surface anyway would be a much better place if 90% of the citizens were of ANY religion, peaceful but ignorant. It would in the short term make it a much more peaceful place but eventually free thinkers would question life and violence would ensue.
PS: (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.-

Muslim men don't beat on their old lady coz the Koran might say something about it. Just as I'm sure christains don't rape and enslave village girls, even though the bible is flooded with pro-rape verses. It's a cowardly and PERSONAL choice to hit your wife. And just as many christains and Atheists do it.

Originally posted by ohioriver
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

 

What I find disturbing is the fact the OP has posted his location as America. How does this quote from the koran sound:

Sura 47-4: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”

Islam is not a religion of peace, it is not cool, nor fashionable.Argue all you wish that it is only the extremist that believe that, but the non-extremist is also reading the same passages.

Actually you are taking that quote out of context.

The Quran specifically states many times that non-believers are only to be killed if it is in self defense from persecution.

In a previous sura, in 2:256, the Quran states: "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. "

Originally posted by ohioriver
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

 

What I find disturbing is the fact the OP has posted his location as America. How does this quote from the koran sound:

Sura 47-4: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”

Islam is not a religion of peace, it is not cool, nor fashionable.Argue all you wish that it is only the extremist that believe that, but the non-extremist is also reading the same passages.

Not that I have any belief in the Koran, because I don't, but in all fairness, I looked up your quote, and I found it somewhat lacking. What it actually says is:

[47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

These ideas are not really different at all from the severe things written in the Old Testament, which is still the primary scriptures for the Jews, and the additional inspired scriptures of Christians.

The fact is, Jews and Christians don't practice the "more severe" teachings contained in both the Old and New Testaments, because in so doing, there would be huge worldwide outcry. Imagine if Israel stoned people to death for not keeping the Sabbath, though that is exactly what is commanded in the Ten Commandments, the foundational tenets of Western Society.

I tend to hold to Biblical ideas, but in general, these severe practices were done in a day without Internet and when the world in general was much more brutal.

Now, if you want to talk about what IS dangerous and brutal, you can talk about China, where their lack of any recognized religions gives the government free reign to commit every type of horrific torture and killing, even selling organs freshly extracted from innocent civilians. We Westerners have no problem buying all the things made in this country, shipping our own manufacturing to be done there, and basking in the cheap prices of Wal-Mart, made possible by the very place that practices "religion-less" atrocities that far exceed Jewish, Christian, or Muslim behaviors!

How's that for hypocrisy to the millionth degree?

reply to post by downisreallyup


Well said. I think part of the poster of that quote's problem is that there are many translations of the Quran. They are all very different, and one authors opinions can be portrayed as fact. Considering that most of the most recognized translations were written in the 1800s or early 1900s, there was a lot more vigilence.

The translation that you quoted was written in 1980 by a man named Rashad Khalifa who was a man of peace, and was the FOUNDER of the "Quran Alone Movement". Actually, he was the one who discovered the numerical code in the Quran as well. Because he advocated that only the laws of the Quran should be followed, and not the hadith or sunna which are upheld by the Sunni / Shi'ites, a fatwa was issued on him from an Iranian imam.

He was stabbed to death 29 times in 1991 as a result of the fatwa.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

 

We have enough trouble with our politicians without having some rag-head camel jockey throwing cockamamie bs into the mix.

racist much?

It would be the end of democracy as you understand and know it. From what I have seen, and read, those of the Islamic faith have very little tolerance for those who are not, to the point of ostracising their own neighbor and those who disagree with them. Or it is a set of clerics who set policy, and if one is extreme or narrow minded in his belief and interpretation of the Quaran, then the whole of society suffers. If you want proof of such, I offer Iran where it is the clerics who rule and will not tolerate people speaking out, Afganistan under the Taliban rule that bombed their own cultural history, some of the oldest Buddhist statues in the world, works of art. Iraq, where a single man wrecked havoc on the very people who he was suppose to be leading, Saudia Arabia where beheading still is done today, some parts of Africa where the persecution of different religions is still rampent.
I think that such in the west would be a mistake and wrong for the country on the whole.

first it was the nazi's

then it was the "commies"

now it's the "Muslims!"

My fellow Americans - a shamefully large majority of you are freggin idiots.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
"Islam is not that bad of a religion."

Firstly, the youth in this country would set our world aflame. Islam is far too stringent for the paradigm shift that is coming.

Secondly, Islam is not that bad?

Are you kidding me?

I have read parts of the Koran, at least as much as I could stomach, and, yes, Islam IS really that bad.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

oh please, ther are plenty of horrific passages in the bible.
www.religioustolerance.org...

Topics covered in this section:
Part 1: Today's religious and secular moral systems
Hard Passages in the Bible
Interpreting hard passages from different Biblical viewpoints


Part 2: Biblical acts of genocide:
Mass murder of children:


Part 3: Murdering people because of curiosity:
Murdering people for doing the right thing:
Religious intolerance:


Part 4: Additional hard passages

reply to post by Snarf


In all fairness, the Nazis and the "commies" were both very powerful military industrial complexes that actually were hell bent on invading new lands. They both had massive armies, navies, air forces, bombs, factories, and lots of money to fund the whole thing.

Rogue Muslims have some 50 year old rusty Kalashnikovs and some McGeiveresque bombs made with duct tape. And the Muslim nations are not much better shape, when it comes to the invasion or occupation.

Think about it: every Muslim nation can barely guard and sustain their own empires. They barely have enough military strength to keep their own nations falling from internal struggles or their neighboring countries.

None of those countries have the funding, the man-power, the arsenal, the ships, the jets, the bombs or the will power to ever even contemplate a military take over of the United States.

It's complete propaganda enforced paranoia for anyone to believe that any Muslim force wants to take over America. They have their own problems keeping their little countries from falling apart as it is.



[edit on 28-12-2009 by seattletruth]

Lol yeah the Government can keep people in line if they have a boogieman to scare people with.

You have to keep in mind there IS MODERATE MUSLIM COUNTIES out there. Bahrain, Oman, United Arab Emirates, etc.

I never said anything about a Islamic theocracy, just Islam as the dominate religion. People can't seem to separate the two. The vast majority of people in America claim to be Christian but it's not a Christian theocracy.

Originally posted by TinFoilHatMan55
People complain that America is declining in religiousness. So do you think if Islam spread to about 90% of the population that it would be bad? At least people would believe in God and pray five times a day plus we'd have Friday off.

I think Islam will continue getting converts because people research it and find that's its not that bad of a religion and it's nothing like how the media portrays it. Remember after 9/11 people got interested in Islam and started converting.

I don't care if its 90% as long as I still have my freedom to choose what the hell I want to believe in. (The flying spatting monster)
Who cares if we pray, people pray to win football games
I'm starting to believe meditation is how to sooth your inner problems. Nothing to do with prayer. Your just being a goof I think now that I read your post again =)

I'd no sooner have Islam be the ruler of me than I would Christianity. I am neither Muslim not Christian, and I do not accept hte idea that some people are more fit to rule, based on the opinion of an imaginary man only those people can hear.

I say, one nation under Tengrism. Pray all you like, he doesn't give a damn. Sin all you like, it's not his business. Just look up, enjoy the great blue sky and the wind in your ears, and live your damn life.

reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55


For a start, any theological society can be manipulated by the so-called leaders, and we can see how in Iran the Supreme leader has claimed god speaks thru' him, and now he claims he's god. This is then used to justify any kind of action.

Just forget all of these religions, and if you have any faith, then a private form of faith that doesn't intrude on anyone else is the only way forward for religion, otherwise it will reside completely in the trash bin of history.

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by TinFoilHatMan55

 

For a start, any theological society can be manipulated by the so-called leaders, and we can see how in Iran the Supreme leader has claimed god speaks thru' him, and now he claims he's god. This is then used to justify any kind of action.

Just forget all of these religions, and if you have any faith, then a private form of faith that doesn't intrude on anyone else is the only way forward for religion, otherwise it will reside completely in the trash bin of history.

I used to go to a Southern Baptist Church, they seem worse than Islamist haha. So you're right a theocracy of any kind would be bad. But even if America did have Islam as the dominate religion doesn't mean that we would become theocratic.

Originally posted by ismael86
How the Sharia is applied in most Arabic countries, (I don't even want to call them Muslim counties) is not how the Sharia is supposed to be applied.

I does not matter how it is supposed to be applied, what does matter is how it is being applied.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

How it is being applied is not much more helpful either. In one "extremist" country (Taliban Afghanistan), you could've been thrown into jail if your beard wasn't the required length. In another (Iran), they couldn't care less.

In one country, music was banned because it is evil. In another, Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" was allowed, because at one point they said "Bismillah" (in the name of Allah) . In another, they couldn't care less.

See, there is no standard for "shariah law" being used anywhere in the world. Each person you ask will give you a different interpretation of it, and the MAJORITY of the laws that most of these so-called Islamic countries have, have no relation to Islam, and were made up as they went along.

So it is kinda confusing and silly when people clamour up and start screaming about "Shariah over their dead bodies!", as if it is one behemoth monumental force that is coming to get you. What is even more hilarious is that in most muslim minority countries where there is an issue about shariah, the only proponents are actually asking for it in the sense of marriage laws and divorce laws and inheritance- a sense that already exists for Jews, for example, in most countries (Beth Din arbitrations).

reply to post by Osiris_Caine

if all the people of the world became christian, or muslim, or whatever, we still would not have peace. do the sunni and the shia live in peace??
and how many wars were fought over weather or not the people should be catholic or protestant???

as for me...
would I, as a women like to live in afghanistan....not on your life!
would I like to live in saudi arabia.....not on your life!!!

I wouldn't want to live in a country where christian rules were the main legal system either!

and once they got those religious rules into the legal system, the wars would begin as to just what those rules are, who is right, who isn't among the religious followers.
still think that most of the witches burned in the middle ages were christian, but just weren't the right kind of christian! they were born with a backbone and had the guts to use it and tell the church leadership they were wrong!

no thanks, don't care if your islamic or christian, or whatever....
I don't need you telling me how God wants me to live my life...if God has a problem with me, I am sure he has the ability to tell me himself!

and more than likely, what you'd be telling me would be more how you want me to live, and have very little to do with what God wants!
I would rather live in a Godless society that is open about it, and the sins are visable to all than to live in a Godless society that has been forced into hypocrisy by the laws so it appears "Godly"...but still has a heart blackened by the sin. I mean, come on, do you really think that you can fool God like that anyways?