***GRAPHIC*** Iran protest images... Identify the canister...

reply to post by Atlantican

Iran protest images faked?

I am somewhat troubled by suggestions that those who are rising against an unjust and sinister regime are somehow not what they seem to be.

I realize that right now, there is a lot of anti-Israeli sentiment and some feel that by propping up Israel's main antagonist, they are somehow doing the right thing. But two wrongs do not make a right. And though Israel may be wrong in its behaviors, Iran's current regime should not be ignored and/or supported in spite of its own evils.

In another time and another place, I cannot help but think that we would all be hoping the best for those who seek to regain control over their native Persia/Iran.

Just in case you mistake this as a pro-Israel rant, it is not. It is a pro-Iranian green party one... and what they seek is what we would seek if we were in their place.

I'm not saying they were faked. Asking questions is all I'm doing and there's nothing wrong with asking questions, especially here, where people contribute with what they know. I don't know and would like to know and hence my thread.

The canister is of special interest to me. Someone has stated it looks like a tear gas canister. I'm leaning towards that myself. I cannot say case closed still but it's the best we got so far.

As for staged events & false flags well Israel knows that game well as do our own countries. It's nothing new and is just a means to an end really. I don't mind my government false flagging if it means winning a war before it reaches our shores.

I'm interested in that canister primarily. If it turned out to be fake well the canister could certainly hold the key. Again, I want to know what that canister is. So far.. Tear gas is a distinct possibility.

reply to post by redoubt

I am somewhat troubled by suggestions that those who are rising against an unjust and sinister regime are somehow not what they seem to be.

There is a chance that if you read the sordid history of Western Intelligence Agencies and Iran dating from the end of World War II through today you would be far less troubled.

The West has a well documented history that it is even proud of when it comes to staging coups and government take overs in Iran.

It troubles me that so many people who don't know the history, ignore the history, or flat out don't want to know the history make these kind of emotional appeals.

Seems quite obvious to me.

Man is shot/beaten badly and is being dragged off. Blood looks real, as does the splatter and the drips coming from his head. The fact there is a canister means nothing to me, as it is supposedly during a protest that received a strong reaction from the authorities in iran, so it isn't much of a stretch for it to be a CS canister.

All those in this thread examining the picture and saying daft things like "the canister looks cut off/jagged" don't seem to realise they are looking at a relatively low quality picture where such detail could not be descerned. It looks jagged on one side due to pixelation, thats for sure, but you cannot with any degree of legitmacy claim it has had anything done to it.

It's a real picture, plain and simple. If you don't believe this one, then perhaps the thousands of other pics and video's available will convince you instead. The protests are real.

Seems to me like we have another brood of photoshop "experts" coming of age like we had a flurry of a few years ago, where any and every picture was being denoucned as fake due to nonsense claims based on a pixel here or a smudge there. You could post a pic of your Gran and it would have been shouted down as fake by these guys.

ats is beginning to disturb me


no matter what the situation is, SOMEONE always screams fake with no real proof to back that claim, in the past there used to be serious ramifications for doing such things, now nothing happens to those


theres nothing fake about those pictures, they show a dead man, that man deserves more respect then to have people online calling his image fake or staged with nothing to back up such irresponsible claims



nothing on this site is sacred anymore, just like in life, not even death can be shown any respect

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by redoubt

 

I am somewhat troubled by suggestions that those who are rising against an unjust and sinister regime are somehow not what they seem to be.

There is a chance that if you read the sordid history of Western Intelligence Agencies and Iran dating from the end of World War II through today you would be far less troubled.

The West has a well documented history that it is even proud of when it comes to staging coups and government take overs in Iran.

It troubles me that so many people who don't know the history, ignore the history, or flat out don't want to know the history make these kind of emotional appeals.

history is a great thing to know, but thats exactly it, it is a great thing to know.


to speculate and question without any basis in facts or proof is a dangerous thing

if someone knew or had any reasonable proof to doubt this situation it would be one thing, yet this is just another thread on ats jumping on the bandwagon of debunking EVERYTHING including the real

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Dramey]

reply to post by Dramey


Actually no one has any true idea what is happening there that is not over there.

Are you over there?

What I take exception to is those people who act like there should be some guilt or shame involved in doubting or being skeptical and that kind of attitude to me is just as dangerous as anything that might be happening in Iran.

It's akin to shame on you for asking and really wanting to know, just accept what you are told, or you are somehow deficient as a human being.

That smacks of emotional manipulation or a dangerous innocent ignorance.

I reject both.

There is much to be skepitcal about regarding the news coming out of Iran and what are driving events over there.

Good intentions are all fine and dandy but sometimes the best of intentions end up having terrible consequences.

I've seen some CS gas riot control rounds up close and the aluminum can does look similar to a fired one.
They do fly pretty fast are made to bounce around so people can't catch them and throw them upwind before it fully involves. I bet it would ring someones bell if they caught it in the head. The ones I saw didn't seem to weigh that much.
That said, the guy in the picture has some serious head trauma. His eyes are bulging out and it looks like the top of his head is deformed. Looks like he has an open fracture on his forhead near his hairline. Whatever hit him, or he hit, caused a fairly violent impact, I think.
I did notice an object on the ground on the other side of his body. A black handle or something next to his right leg. Maybe a riot club?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I think one of the key things to remember that the Iranian Holiday of Ashura involves self flatulence.

Self... flatulence? I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "flagellation" - flatulence is passing wind, flagellation is whipping.

So there would in fact be no shortage of bloody people to take video of.

Except that looks nothing like flagellation. Which doesn't produce nearly that much blood, anyway. Flagellation opens the blood vessels in the skin, capillaries and such, leading to a slow seep of blood. THis picture is from a deep wound, a real gusher.

One of the biggest problems in the footage coming out of Iran/Tehran yesterday and today is the skies don’t match the forecast. International weather services say yesterday and today were both sunny and bright. The videos all look like gloomy overcast skies.

My local weather service screws up all the time. Also consider, it's hte middle of a major city. One currently undergoing riots. Smog, smoke, heat trap effect, and tall buildings all contribute to dulling the sky and light.

Another big question is the notion that protesters would be chanting “G-d is Great” as a form of protest against a theocracy. That does not exactly sound like a protest cry of “Hell no, we won’t go” to me!

Then you have no idea about anything pertaining to Shia Islam or Iranian politics. The Iranian people do not oppose theocracy. They simply expect their officials to follow the tenets of Islam, serve the interests of the people i nthe name of God, and otherwise behave in an ideal way. By chanting "God is great" in a protest against their government, they are saying that the government has lost its legitimacy over the ulema.

Chances are strong that crowds actually in various stage of celebrating the religious holiday who support the regime are then depicted as opposition crowds.

There's definitely going to be lots of people out mourning the martyrdom of Ali. But that'll be in addition to the protests.

Chances are strong that the main groups of militant protestors against the regime are CIA/MOSSAD/MI5 funded and backed and possibly even manned with CIA/MOSSAD/MI5 Agents.

It's a definite possibility. However, these agencies aren't exactly popular among hte people of Iran. It would take a lot of work for the CIA, much less Mossad, to instigate something of this scale.

There is little doubt that former SAVAK members and their descendants loyal to the Shah’s regime and the Prince Regent are actively taking a part there too on the ground.

Such people were almost universally killed during the course of the revolution, which targeted members of SAVAK with a fury - and kept hunting htem down after the revolution. Former members of SAVAK would almost all be pushing their 60's these days - These particular bogeymen are a non-factor.

I think there are some homegrown protestors unhappy with the government there just as there are in every other nation on earth that has a government.

I think they are being funded, encouraged, helped, and even prodded, and put at risk and exploited by various Western Intelligence Agencies though as the media takes what little it has and twists it as best as they can to depict wide spread unrest and human rights violations.

They're definitely being encouraged. However I doubt that they're following any westerner game plan - As you noted, they're chanting Allah u Akbar.

There is absolutely no doubt that there is a wide scale propaganda war going on against Iran and that Western Governments are committed to destabilizing the Iranian regime and changing it.

Everything else in my opinion is highly suspect.


[edit on 28/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

No doubt about the propaganda. But It's rather vapid to think the Iranians have nothing going on their own.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Such people were almost universally killed during the course of the revolution, which targeted members of SAVAK with a fury - and kept hunting htem down after the revolution. Former members of SAVAK would almost all be pushing their 60's these days - These particular bogeymen are a non-factor.

Actually the SAVAK members I know would laugh at that notion they are not a factor!

Do you do much self flogging by the way?

The reality is we really are pushing the envelope within Iran. We have committed billions of dollars to covert activities within Iran to effect regime change.

I am suspending judgement on whether the Iranian people any significant portion of them really want a regime change.

I think that's entirely a wise thing to do except for those people who love the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and knowing that their great, great grandchildren will still be paying the debt on it.

There is a very high profile propaganda war going on against Iran.

Critical minds would take everything coming out of Iran with a grain of salt, most especially when they are aimed at playing purely on a person's emotions with little substantiation.

Thanks!

Just my 2 cents, but that 'canister' immediately struck me as resembling the plastic bullets used in Northern Ireland in the 70s.

Were plastic bullets used in the crown control? These things are lethal at close range.

You have a point in that it does indeed look fake to me.. turn the picture sideways to look at the face; it doesnt look real. If real. the guy took about a dozen baton hits to the face. Both eyesockets look broken, but frankly it looks like a mask. I agree the blood color is a bit bright, especially in the shadows. It apears thinner than real blood.
From the videos I''ve seen of the street protests every one is shaky as hell and fuzzy to boot. Nobody in Iran has a decent video camera?
We have a LONG history of nefarious involvement in Iranian affairs vis a vis the CIA, I'd hardly be surprised to find their fingerprints on this somehow.

Originally posted by Dramey
ats is beginning to disturb me


no matter what the situation is, SOMEONE always screams fake with no real proof to back that claim, in the past there used to be serious ramifications for doing such things, now nothing happens to those


theres nothing fake about those pictures, they show a dead man, that man deserves more respect then to have people online calling his image fake or staged with nothing to back up such irresponsible claims



nothing on this site is sacred anymore, just like in life, not even death can be shown any respect

THe center of the debate here is based on a photograph. Since when did pictures become sacred or is it just your version of truth that is?
If someone did indeed die then that is very sad. Simply because a picture looks real doesn't prove it's being so.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Asktheanimals]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I think one of the key things to remember that the Iranian Holiday of Ashura involves self flatulence.

Self flatulence...tee hee hee hee!