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Evolution and The Great Architect of the Universe

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posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:29 AM
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Happy New Year to all of you reading this Thread.



FreeMasons are taught that there is a Great Architect of the Universe (Intelligent Design) who created the world about us. Now, reading such books, as Richard Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth" casts doubt, on that ascertion. As an evolutionist he points to the work of Darwin; Wallace; Endler and Lenski to disprove the Creationist viewpoint. Dawkins states that the fossil record shows that the natural world evolves through "natural selection" of the environment opon living organisms - not the hand of God.

Where do Masons ,as Freethinkers and educated men, put themselves with this apparent dilemna? Can one reconcil a scientific standpoint with a Masonic one? Maybe, there is no problem?

All the best, Circle




posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by Circle
 


to fix your assertion, masons must already believe that there is intelligent design before becoming a mason. It is the single most important prerequisite. The teachings, lessons, and obligations all revolve around God, whatever you chose to call him. Nobody is "taught" anything new about God. Just wanted to clear that up.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Hi, thanks for your reply. What if a man who is already a Mason then becomes convinced about the evolutionary argument. Can he still logically be a FreeMason?



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:49 AM
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I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. I feel you can believe in God and evolution at the same time.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. I feel you can believe in God and evolution at the same time.


Interesting. How do you reconcil the two in your thinking? Are you saying that God works through evolution?


In "The Traditional History (Third Degree)" of the Blue Craft Lodge it states that Hiram Abiff was slain three thousand years after the creation of the world. How does that "square" (forgive the pun!) with the evolution of the planet? Most scientists state that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old based on isotope half-life readings. Even in allegory the claim that the Masonic Hero, Hiram was around 4.5 billion years ago is a nonsense.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Circle]

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Circle]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by Circle
 


Yes. It is my belief that the Universe was created and since that time it has been allowed to evolve, along with everything inside it, there is no 'active' participation on the part of Deity.

At one time a felt I was more Deistic in my beliefs but after hearing Masonic Light explain the Panentheistic approach I realized that this sentiment was what I was attempting to articulate all along.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 



Masons place the Volume of the Sacred Law (mostly the Judeo-Christain Scriptures) at the heart of the Lodge. That Scripture contains the Genesis Legend of Creation. How does that work with evolution?

Thanks for the link - I will check it out. Also could you revisit my previous reply, I think it was edited after yours.


[edit on 28-12-2009 by Circle]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:18 AM
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these might interest you....








posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Circle
 


to fix your assertion, masons must already believe that there is intelligent design before becoming a mason. It is the single most important prerequisite. The teachings, lessons, and obligations all revolve around God, whatever you chose to call him. Nobody is "taught" anything new about God. Just wanted to clear that up.

Why must one think there is a constructor of the universe to become a mason, if masonry is not a religios sect?

There are good people that do not think of such an entity.


[edit on 28-12-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by mcrom901
 


Thanks I will view these videos when I get the chance as I'm going out of the door now. As Freethinkers Masons can go anywhere in their thinking ONLY if they retain a belief in God. That's fair enough as there are many viewpoints on what God is and how HE (SHE?) interacts with Nature (plus Us). However, having the Volume of The Sacred Law (with Creation myths) present in the Lodge implies that evolution is not part of Freemasonry. Unless of course we are interpreting the Bible in two narrow a sense - as a Scientific Manual rather than a Spritual Guide. That would be an eye-opener to the fundamentalists.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by Circle
 


Not to get too heavy a debate going.
Evolution is a process.

It cannot account for how life began.

Anyone of a masonic influence or otherwise, could accept both an architect and evolution.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by Circle
In "The Traditional History (Third Degree)" of the Blue Craft Lodge it states that Hiram Abiff was slain three thousand years after the creation of the world. How does that "square" (forgive the pun!) with the evolution of the planet? Most scientists state that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old based on isotope half-life readings. Even in allegory the claim that the Masonic Hero, Hiram was around 4.5 billion years ago is a nonsense.



Masons place the Volume of the Sacred Law (mostly the Judeo-Christain Scriptures) at the heart of the Lodge. That Scripture contains the Genesis Legend of Creation. How does that work with evolution?


I appreciate the Bible for the allegorical lessons it teaches and do not use it as a history book. One does not need to believe everything in the Bible literally but I do feel one should take the lessons of Brotherly Love, Charity and Relief as tenets to emulate on a daily basis.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:06 AM
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Once you get to the point of being a deist/pantheist, what is the point of believing in god?

You're just trying to hang onto a piece of dogma that has been drilled into your head by your family and peers.

Try thinking outside of the herd, for a change.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Circle
 


to fix your assertion, masons must already believe that there is intelligent design before becoming a mason. It is the single most important prerequisite. The teachings, lessons, and obligations all revolve around God, whatever you chose to call him. Nobody is "taught" anything new about God. Just wanted to clear that up.

Why must one think there is a constructor of the universe to become a mason, if masonry is not a religios sect?


Because none of the lessons would mean anything without a previous belief in the construct of the unknown. Also the obligation would be meaningless, and that is the foundation for everything in masonry that is important. Masonry offers no salvation nor does it guarantee anything in regards to an afterlife, it only discusses the hope of being admitted to such a place. Your salvation lies within your own religious beliefs.


There are good people that do not think of such an entity.


of that I have no doubt, but such a person would not be a good fit with masonry, nor would masonry be a good fit with them.(IMHO)


[edit on 28-12-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Circle
reply to post by network dude
 


Hi, thanks for your reply. What if a man who is already a Mason then becomes convinced about the evolutionary argument. Can he still logically be a FreeMason?


I think Augustus cleared that up, but I know of one mason on this board who stopped believing in God for his own personal reasons and has demitted from masonry. I am sad that he feels that way, but I respect his decision and commend him on his integrity.

Evolution doesn't discount God in my opinion. It is the only logical answer for scientific discoveries. I just think God made a whole lot more than just us and the earth. I find it hard to believe he made us and sat back with a beer thinking "ahh, perfection!", probably more like, "oh well, I'll try again". Any race who can kill in the name of God, really doesn't understand God at all.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Circle


Masons place the Volume of the Sacred Law (mostly the Judeo-Christain Scriptures) at the heart of the Lodge. That Scripture contains the Genesis Legend of Creation. How does that work with evolution?


Mystics have always interpreted the creation account as given in Genesis allegorically. One does not have to believe that the account is literal in order to become a Freemason.

There is also a specific occult interpretation of the Genesis story that is compatible with biological evolution.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
Once you get to the point of being a deist/pantheist, what is the point of believing in god?



Deists, by definition, believe in God. "Deist" literally means "one who believes in Deity".

Pantheism can be materialistic or mystical, whereas panentheism is the root of most mystical traditions.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Circle
Masons place the Volume of the Sacred Law (mostly the Judeo-Christain Scriptures) at the heart of the Lodge. That Scripture contains the Genesis Legend of Creation. How does that work with evolution?
I'm not a Christian and I place no specific value on the Bible in regards to any other book. That said, as Masonry is full of symbolism, I can accept having a Bible at the heart of the lodge as being symbolic of laws that man should live by... without going into the specifics contained within that particular book. (If you want people who take things too literally, you should read The Year of Living Biblically... a guy who tried to follow EVERY law in the Bible for a year...)



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Freemasons aren't taught or convinced of evolution one way or another. That's for each to decide.

However, we all believe in a Supreme Creator who has an intelligent plan for the universe.

As for me, I have no problems reconciling God and evolution. One does not preclude the other. I don't know any Masons that truly believe the world is only 6000 years old, but that would be their own decision.

It is incredibly easy to see evolution going on around us all the time. Even Darwin's finches in the Galapagos are a clincher for me.

But also the miracle of life and the amazing realization that mankind has free will AND intelligence convince me undoubtedly of the existence of God.

Anyway, even though American lodges have the Bible open during lodge there is no attempt to influence or question a brother's religious beliefs other than a profession that he believes in a Supreme Being.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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I think the Freemasons, that have replied on this Thread, can justifiably call themselves "freethinkers". You retain the ability to entertain the tenets of faith but have also kept your minds open to science. Truly enlightened. I'm impressed.



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